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cuthound

Diesels to make a short-term comeback?

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Since the EU has adopted the WLTP "real world" emissions tests, it appears that the latest diesels do not necessary produce more pollution than petrol engines.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motoringresearch.com/car-news-list/diesel-comeback-new-regulations/amp/

 

Makes me wonder whether the whole thing was a scam between governments and motor manufacturers to first sell more diesels and then when most people had them, demonise them in order to get everyone to swap them for petrol engined cars, before repeating the con again to sell electric vehicles.  

 

Cynical moi?

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A similar thing happened in 1974 during the strikes and oil shortage crisis.  We were all issued with fuel ration books, BUT at exactly the same time we were all told to always use headlights at night even in lit up areas. They obviousely didn't have a clue ''or did they'' about the vast amount of more fuel vehicles would use by doing so.  The ration books were not needed after all, incredible!!!

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I think it was collective hysteria by people who hadn't got a clue, i.e. governments. I stand to be corrected but diesels were the best thing since sliced bread because of less co2 emissions so lets all have diesels. Then diesels are murdering killers because of particulates, (That's been known about for years anyway) Now diesels are also terrible because of nox  Fact is that all fossil fuel is 'Bad' because of some sort of soot / gas combination but Diesel is going to be powering heavy vehicles for years but cleaner and cleaner. Electric is getting better but slowly.

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16 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Since the EU has adopted the WLTP "real world" emissions tests, it appears that the latest diesels do not necessary produce more pollution than petrol engines.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motoringresearch.com/car-news-list/diesel-comeback-new-regulations/amp/

 

Makes me wonder whether the whole thing was a scam between governments and motor manufacturers to first sell more diesels and then when most people had them, demonise them in order to get everyone to swap them for petrol engined cars, before repeating the con again to sell electric vehicles.  

 

Cynical moi?

 

That publications has an interesting article about the Nissan X-Trail saga too. Seems pretty well balanced to me -- both the unpopularity of diesel and the government's Brexit dithering were factors. 

3 minutes ago, bizzard said:

the vast amount of more fuel vehicles would use by doing so. 

 

Vast amount? How powerful were your headlights?

-- about 55W each compared with a 25kW car engine -- say 0.25% of it (yes, a very rough guess) but still three degrees of magnitude).

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9 minutes ago, Bee said:

I stand to be corrected but diesels were the best thing since sliced bread because of less co2 emissions

 

They still are, in comparison with petrol, (and quite possibly in comparison with electric too, unless the energy comes from renewables, once transmission efficiency is factored in).

 

As some of us were hinting elsewhere it depends on what sort of pollution, where it occurs, and the consequences for the planet.

 

 

Edited by Machpoint005
minor correction

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17 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

That publications has an interesting article about the Nissan X-Trail saga too. Seems pretty well balanced to me -- both the unpopularity of diesel and the government's Brexit dithering were factors. 

 

Vast amount? How powerful were your headlights?

-- about 55W each compared with a 25kW car engine -- say 0.25% of it (yes, a very rough guess) but still three degrees of magnitude).

Taking the country as a whole and all the different types of vehicles it would have been a vast amount, folk tended to use extra spotlamps as well. A complete reversal really. Just prior to that folk used to flash up cars coming the other way with headlamps on in a lit up area, wasting the battery, they called it :) Its all gone bonkers, we're dazzled by them in broad daylight now.

Edited by bizzard
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Bizz, the word "vast" invites comparison. We are talking about a tiny proportion of the energy consumed by the private car fleet, which was negligible in its own context.  

 

I would suggest that more energy was wasted - let's say one order of magnitude - by vehicles with incorrect tyre pressures.

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4 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Bizz, the word "vast" invites comparison. We are talking about a tiny proportion of the energy consumed by the private car fleet, which was negligible in its own context.  

 

I would suggest that more energy was wasted - let's say one order of magnitude - by vehicles with incorrect tyre pressures.

By comparison, yes of course, but still an awful amount. You only have to switch on headlamps whilst the engines idling to notice the sudden drop in rpm.

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Just now, bizzard said:

By comparison, yes of course, but still an awful amount. You only have to switch on headlamps whilst the engines idling to notice the sudden drop in rpm.

Not on my car!

But if the rpm falls, isn't the engine using less fuel?  :D

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6 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Not on my car!

But if the rpm falls, isn't the engine using less fuel?  :D

Blow your hooter at the same time then. :)

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34 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Not on my car!

But if the rpm falls, isn't the engine using less fuel?  :D

Nor mine. In fact on the Datsun turning on electrical items increases the revs :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, bizzard said:

A similar thing happened in 1974 during the strikes and oil shortage crisis.  We were all issued with fuel ration books, BUT at exactly the same time we were all told to always use headlights at night even in lit up areas. They obviousely didn't have a clue ''or did they'' about the vast amount of more fuel vehicles would use by doing so.  The ration books were not needed after all, incredible!!!

Do I remember correctly & was it at this time  you were required to leave a front/tear light on when parked hence the extra position on the side lamp switch to have offside front rear lamp lit& a parked on the correct side facing the correct way

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17 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Do I remember correctly & was it at this time  you were required to leave a front/tear light on when parked hence the extra position on the side lamp switch to have offside front rear lamp lit& a parked on the correct side facing the correct way

Earlier, 1950's I seem to remember. Some folk had a little clip on parking light that clipped over a side window and trapped when it was wound up.

28 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Nor mine. In fact on the Datsun turning on electrical items increases the revs :rolleyes:

ECU's compensating.

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5 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Some folk had a little clip on parking light that clipped over a side window and trapped when it was wound up.

Yep. My Dad had one, white front lens, red rear. Plugged into a home wired socket on the dash.  Some folks udes oil lamps.

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3 hours ago, Bee said:

I think it was collective hysteria by people who hadn't got a clue, i.e. governments. I stand to be corrected but diesels were the best thing since sliced bread because of less co2 emissions so lets all have diesels. Then diesels are murdering killers because of particulates, (That's been known about for years anyway) Now diesels are also terrible because of nox  Fact is that all fossil fuel is 'Bad' because of some sort of soot / gas combination but Diesel is going to be powering heavy vehicles for years but cleaner and cleaner. Electric is getting better but slowly.

 

Nox emissions for petrol cars is increasing. Nox production is related to combustion temperatures, and the trend for petrol engined cars to use small, high output turbocharged engines, rather than larger normally aspirated ones has increased both Nox and particulate output.

 

From next year many petrol engines cars will have to be fitted with particulate filters to address the increased particulate emission.

 

 

2 hours ago, X Alan W said:

Do I remember correctly & was it at this time  you were required to leave a front/tear light on when parked hence the extra position on the side lamp switch to have offside front rear lamp lit& a parked on the correct side facing the correct way

 

Most modern cars light up the sidelight and rear light on one side if the indicator stalk is left on with the ignition off.

 

My 1972 Ford Cortina had this facility as does my current car.

Edited by cuthound

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2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Nor mine. In fact on the Datsun turning on electrical items increases the revs :rolleyes:

That's because the engine speeds up to provide the extra power needed - using more fuel?

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Another reason to have a diesel - the battery has to be man enough for the job of turning the engine over against a much greater compression ratio, so it tends to be bigger than in the equivalent petrol car.

(I'm saying that, but on reflection I haven't had a petrol car since 1991).

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On 06/02/2019 at 16:27, Machpoint005 said:

Another reason to have a diesel - the battery has to be man enough for the job of turning the engine over against a much greater compression ratio, so it tends to be bigger than in the equivalent petrol car.

(I'm saying that, but on reflection I haven't had a petrol car since 1991).

The Hyundai was back at the dealers last week as the stop start wasn't working. We were not bothered about this as we have turned it off now but we wanted it working as we had bought the car on the understanding that everything was working. After a night plugged in downloading new software it was eventually diagnosed as the battery that was not in the best of health!

 

Appraently the AGM batteries that they use don't like going and being left flat or being jump started. Now the battery was flat when we went to look at the car and then jump started and left running the next day when we went to test drive it. Although we had not had a problem with it other than the stop start not working during the week or so we ran it around before taking it back.

 

Hyundai put a new battery on it for us under warranty as we had just bought the car even though their warranty doesn't cover the battery after two years. The service department left a copy in the invoice to the sales department in the car. It came to just over £400 for the diagnostics, software update and battery!

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Almost everyone I know who has a car fitted with stop-start has had to have new batteries at huge cost.

 

Stop-start improves urban fuel consumption by 0.001mpg, saving you about £1 per year, but it also needs a new battery every 2 years...

 

I wonder how long the starter motors and ring gear last?

 

And they call it progress. ?

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1 hour ago, cuthound said:

Almost everyone I know who has a car fitted with stop-start has had to have new batteries at huge cost.

 

Stop-start improves urban fuel consumption by 0.001mpg, saving you about £1 per year, but it also needs a new battery every 2 years...

 

I wonder how long the starter motors and ring gear last?

 

And they call it progress. ?

Stop start isn't aimed at improving fuel economy. It is improving air quality and reducing emissions. 

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17 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Stop start isn't aimed at improving fuel economy. It is improving air quality and reducing emissions. 

 

The three are closely linked, although NOx production is related to combustion temperature as well as the amount of air drawn into the combustion chamber.

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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

Almost everyone I know who has a car fitted with stop-start has had to have new batteries at huge cost.

 

Stop-start improves urban fuel consumption by 0.001mpg, saving you about £1 per year, but it also needs a new battery every 2 years...

 

I wonder how long the starter motors and ring gear last?

 

And they call it progress. ?

My daughters 500 is over three years old. Has stop start, original battery. New cars are very reliable.

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39 minutes ago, ianali said:

My daughters 500 is over three years old. Has stop start, original battery. New cars are very reliable.

 

My Father has a Renault Clio, my brother in law a Ford Mondeo and my friend a Mercedes C Class.

 

All have stop -start fitted and all have needed new batteries in the second or third year.

 

Perhaps your daughter is lucky.

 

Also according to my mechanic, he is seeing cars only 10 years old with bearing damage from stop start technology.

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54 minutes ago, ianali said:

My daughters 500 is over three years old. Has stop start, original battery. New cars are very reliable.

Probably due to fail any time soon then :lol:

 

Mind you we have had car batteries on non stop start cars that have failed within three years.

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