Diesel Vs Electric

[ditchcrawler]

If the speed limit on motorways was reduced to 55 mph and policed it would cut pollution drastically and save  loadt of fuel and cash.

[mrsmelly]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If the speed limit on motorways was reduced to 55 mph and policed it would cut pollution drastically and save  loadt of fuel and cash.

But that would never work would it? Whilst paying lip service to being greener the facts are that governments dont realy want us to be too green. The less fuel we burn the less income from taxation they get.

[Fly Navy]

The actual lay person will have no say on this. Environmentalism carries huge momentum and it is growing every day. If we stay inside the EU (God help us) it will happen faster than we  expect, if we leave the EU, we will still move away from diesel. Be it 10, 20 30 years, diesel is dead.

Once EV's and electric planes (Easyjet have just signed up to research), electric lorries (already here) and of course electric boats (lots of them) become the norm, diesel driven vehicles will be the first to be targeted.  Good riddance I say.

 

Enjoy the ICE while you can.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Whilst its nice to see how passionate Peter is about leccy cars, in reality in 2019 they are a non starter for any but the few who live with easy charging and dont go anywhere/far. My regular trips vary between 135 miles thats the shortest to my mums and 500 miles and every thing inbetween. I do this easily with a 1k car in comfort. Even if people bought expensive leccy cars that love throwing money away its not possible to do this type of motoring that millions of us do. All these quoted distances that leccy cars can do in reality will be way less. Today for instance its cold overcast with plenty of rain How far in REALITY will a standard leccy car go at motorway speed with headlights, wipers and heater blower on?? you will not find the result from any car manufacturer either. Add in the fact that some cars will do a particular trip with a couple of miles to spare but then what happens when the inevitable accident happens on the motorway and its closed and its cold wet and raining with stop start moving for say two hours or more ( we have all been there ) how long is it before heater, lights and motor simply jack in? what then especialy if there are thousands of us? spare battery somewhere like yer five litre can of petrol? So you can spend huge amounts on a leccy car with an internal combustion engine with it to charge the batteries !!  ? viable all leccy cars have not happened yet and it aint happening anytime soon.

I havent carried spare  petrol for years! and I have seen numerous petrol/diesel cars run out on the hard shoulder, so the problem is just the same for both ICE and electric cars. It doesnt really matter what all you petrol/diesel heads think, shortly the market for secondhand ice cars will start to dry up, as companies go the electric route. It will be just like the rise of the diesel car except cleaner?

[Stilllearning]

To most of the above should be added the codicil “in some first world countries”.

Most of the rest of the world is unlikely to be able to afford an electric car in the foreseeable future.

[Chewbacka]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

If the speed limit on motorways was reduced to 55 mph and policed it would cut pollution drastically and save  loadt of fuel and cash.

But it would increase congestion - which is politically bad.  However if we move quickly to electric cars and this forces the old dirty cars off the road then it will reduce the number of cars available to make journeys so reducing congestion.  To off set the loss of fuel tax we will also move to 'pay as you drive' which can then be used to 'encourage' people to travel at quiet times or (environmentally better) not at all.

This looks like it will put the 'left wing' in a difficult position as it will be the lower income people that can no longer afford a car, but this can be countered by being able to call a self driving car for most trips.  Easy to discount the price if you are on benefits etc.

 

Huge change is coming over the next 20 to 30 years...................

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

But that would never work would it? Whilst paying lip service to being greener the facts are that governments dont realy want us to be too green. The less fuel we burn the less income from taxation they get.

So they will move to taxing cars on a per journey basis, the technology is available now.

One thing you can be certain of, the government of the day will always find a way to raise the taxes it needs.........

Edited February 8, 2019 by Chewbacka

[Bee]

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

But that would never work would it? Whilst paying lip service to being greener the facts are that governments dont realy want us to be too green. The less fuel we burn the less income from taxation they get.

Yeah but that's the same argument people used about fags, if everybody gave up smoking the NHS would fall apart cos of the tax smokers paid.

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, Bee said:

Yeah but that's the same argument people used about fags, if everybody gave up smoking the NHS would fall apart cos of the tax smokers paid.

mmmmm not quite the same. smokers actualy cost billions to the NHS. I remember in 1990 being told that electric boats.cars etc would soon be upon us. The place I worked had two electric day boats ( soon replaced by diesel ) and yet nearly thirty years later how many of the millions of cars are truly leccy? answers on a postcard as thats all you will need. I was told thirty years ago by a boater who had a composting bog that everybody is buying them and give it ten years and they will have replaced porta bogs and cassettes. Change takes place if there is a viable alternative that big business can rely on. Airliners will not be powered by lectric motors flying across the world to Australia in 20 years either. Not one member of my family, extended family or friends has a leccy car and that isnt going to change in the next 18 and a half years as stated by the government. We still use lead acid batteries as the main form of storage in cars and buses and for that matter boats etc that havnt changed  since year dot. Yes there are lithium batteries now but in reality they have now been around for quite a few years but are way way behind being at a stage to replace lead acid.

25 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

But it would increase congestion - which is politically bad.  However if we move quickly to electric cars and this forces the old dirty cars off the road then it will reduce the number of cars available to make journeys so reducing congestion.  To off set the loss of fuel tax we will also move to 'pay as you drive' which can then be used to 'encourage' people to travel at quiet times or (environmentally better) not at all.

This looks like it will put the 'left wing' in a difficult position as it will be the lower income people that can no longer afford a car, but this can be countered by being able to call a self driving car for most trips.  Easy to discount the price if you are on benefits etc.

 

Huge change is coming over the next 20 to 30 years...................

So they will move to taxing cars on a per journey basis, the technology is available now.

One thing you can be certain of, the government of the day will always find a way to raise the taxes it needs.........

Not for a very long time. NCP car parks for instance with their central run technology had a failure yesterday that meant for over an hour motorists were trapped in their car parks and their modern technology failed and couldnt overcome the problem. Self driving cars as the norm on britains roads are a long long way off. Unless your a tree hugger that believes the hype given by a few companies doing their limited research.

[rusty69]

16 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

answers on a postcard as thats all you will need.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by rusty69

[GUMPY]

4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

If the speed limit on motorways was reduced to 55 mph and policed it would cut pollution drastically and save  loadt of fuel and cash.

Quiet at the back don't give them ideas

Motorway speed limits should be 100mph and people should learn lane discipline

[mrsmelly]

23 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeejut ?

23 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Quiet at the back don't give them ideas

Motorway speed limits should be 100mph and people should learn lane discipline

There were no speed limits on motorways when I was a kid, its called " progress " ?

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

There were no speed limits on motorways when I was a kid, its called " progress " ?

Were there motorways when you were a kid? It's called "aging" 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Were there motorways when you were a kid? It's called "aging" 

They were made out of Flint Stone back then.

[Chewbacka]

6 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeejut ?

There were no speed limits on motorways when I was a kid, its called " progress " ?

Thats because most cars couldn't go much over 60mph ?

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeejut ?

There were no speed limits on motorways when I was a kid, its called " progress " ?

Same here, I remember dad doing a U turn over the centrareservationon 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Were there motorways when you were a kid? It's called "aging" 

 Speed limit was introduced when I was about ten eleven iirc. My mum worked for a lady who used to take her and us home in her austin healey 3000 at a ton down the A1 my siss and I sat in the tiny buckets seats at the back and nearly got blown out the car 

5 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Thats because most cars couldn't go much over 60mph ?

Not far from the truth innitt ? I reckon the vaerage family car then would top out at about 70/80 anyway.

[Chewbacka]

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

 Speed limit was introduced when I was about ten eleven iirc. My mum worked for a lady who used to take her and us home in her austin healey 3000 at a ton down the A1 my siss and I sat in the tiny buckets seats at the back and nearly got blown out the car 

Not far from the truth innitt ? I reckon the vaerage family car then would top out at about 70/80 anyway.

A quick look on google tells me the Morris Minor of about 1950 had a top speed of 59mph, though the magazine test did manage a 0~60 time of over 50 secs. 

Considering there was no servo on the brakes with skinny cross ply tyres and not much suspension, it would need a long downhill straight road to achieve 60mph with plenty of stopping distance......  

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Chewbacka said:

A quick look on google tells me the Morris Minor of about 1950 had a top speed of 59mph, though the magazine test did manage a 0~60 time of over 50 secs. 

Considering there was no servo on the brakes with skinny cross ply tyres and not much suspension, it would need a long downhill straight road to achieve 60mph with plenty of stopping distance......  

Ive had a couple of moggy thou's they were ace. Mine were bang up to date 60's models with the A series 1098 engine. They were well quick, I reckon maybe 0 to 60 in less than 30 seconds and probably 75 mph 

[Chewbacka]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

Ive had a couple of moggy thou's they were ace. Mine were bang up to date 60's models with the A series 1098 engine. They were well quick, I reckon maybe 0 to 60 in less than 30 seconds and probably 75 mph 

This has triggered some old memory of mine, so I googled it to be correct - (I remembered the car was doing something like 110mph, but I was well out)

 

Q  -  What is the fastest legal speed recorded on an open UK motorway?

A - 185mph by AC cars testing an AC Cobra on the M1 in 1964.  (no speed limits then)

 

  That going past would give you a bit of a surprise.........

[bizzard]

23 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

A quick look on google tells me the Morris Minor of about 1950 had a top speed of 59mph, though the magazine test did manage a 0~60 time of over 50 secs. 

Considering there was no servo on the brakes with skinny cross ply tyres and not much suspension, it would need a long downhill straight road to achieve 60mph with plenty of stopping distance......  

A 1950 Morris Minor would have been the MM series and used a very slow prewar Morris 8 side valve engine.

[Dr Bob]

4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

 Yes there are lithium batteries now but in reality they have now been around for quite a few years but are way way behind being at a stage to replace lead acid.

 

Now I know Noah had Lead Acids on his boat but we really must look forward.

[WotEver]

On 08/02/2019 at 13:21, peterboat said:

I havent carried spare  petrol for years! and I have seen numerous petrol/diesel cars run out on the hard shoulder, so the problem is just the same for both ICE and electric cars.

Of course it isn’t. If I’m stuck in a motorway traffic jam for a number of hours and run out of fuel then a (chargeable) gallon can from the motorway cops or the RAC/AA/GreenFlag will get me to the next services. Can’t do that for an electric car. 

[Chewbacka]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Of course it isn’t. If I’m stuck in a motorway traffic jam for a number of hours and run out of fuel then a (chargeable) gallon can from the motorway cops or the RAC/AA/GreenFlag will get me to the next services. Can’t do that for an electric car. 

How long before the AA vans have a big alternator/battery pack and inverter to give ev cars a quick charge to get you to the next services........

[CompairHolman]

The more you move away from ICE' s the more electricity you need to generate, and the more you replace fossils fuels and nuclear with solar and wind the less power you can generate , so you're increasing demand while decreasing supply, I'm not a scientist but I know that ain't going to work.

[peterboat]

29 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

The more you move away from ICE' s the more electricity you need to generate, and the more you replace fossils fuels and nuclear with solar and wind the less power you can generate , so you're increasing demand while decreasing supply, I'm not a scientist but I know that ain't going to work.

Why not?