Genny or engine running

[Matt&Jo]

Hey all, i know this has been disputed since time began but im looking for liveaboards that have done both....

So my questions are.....

 

1. efficiency which is simply more fuel/time efficient

2. Practicalities of starting running security fuel....

3. Over all costs of ownership over engine hours.

 

Any help with this would be great please....thinking gas gennys as a better option as its something already on the boat and wont require petrol to be transported....

[Alan de Enfield]

Any portable (suitcase) generator is going to be fraught with usage problems, be it gas / petrol or having to lift it on/off the boat all the time.

 

The only practical solution for a generator is to have a proper (diesel) boat generator plumbed in, but be prepared to pay £10,000 for the benefit.

Why run a big 4-cylinder engine when you can be using a purpose built 'little' engine - it doesn't make sense.

[mrsmelly]

Having done both I now always use my engine. Messing with gennie in rain etc and security etc put me off. If you have an air cooled lister then yes a gennie if you have a modern smoooooooooooth Japanese unit I wouldnt bother with the gennie. I have no idea though which is cost efficient as comfort etc is first on my list ?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Having done both I now always use my engine. Messing with gennie in rain etc and security etc put me off. If you have an air cooled lister then yes a gennie if you have a modern smoooooooooooth Japanese unit I wouldnt bother with the gennie. I have no idea though which is cost efficient as comfort etc is first on my list ?

With a 'proper' Jennifer you can lie in bed watching the TV and just press the remote control and the genny starts - even better - you can set it so it starts up automatically immediately it senses a voltage drop on the batteries.

 

No going out in the rain & snow

No finding someone has nicked it

No worrying about not having enough gas left to cook the tea

 

Technology !!!!!

[Matt&Jo]

Two very different but great viewpoints thank you as always gents.

10,000 is just not an option....solar will be primary in summer but autumn winter spring will need a boost most likely soooo keep the viewpoints coming. Thankyou ?

 

Looking for a unit for £500 tops really the honda units are just tooooooo pricy, brands any recommendations?

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Matt&Jo said:

Two very different but great viewpoints thank you as always gents.

10,000 is just not an option....solar will be primary in summer but autumn winter spring will need a boost most likely soooo keep the viewpoints coming. Thankyou ?

 

Looking for a unit for £500 tops really the honda units are just tooooooo pricy, brands any recommendations?

I picked up a Kippor IG2000 (1600w continuous) for around that price.

 

https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/electric/12v-appliances/12-v-appliances/kipor-generator-ig2000p/?ref=gs&gclid=CjwKCAiAv9riBRANEiwA9Dqv1WVH9OcnFEZBOHbDZ5NDvvh0Dw92tQkwaY4yHXFHlVNtXxyyONyQtRoC1akQAvD_BwE

 

https://www.outdoorbits.com/kipor-ig2000-generator-p-931.html

 

£300 2nd hand here :

 

https://www.gumtree.com/generators/uk/kipor+generator

 

Petrol Tho'.

Gas conversion are available.

 

https://www.sailandtrail.co.uk/lpg-conversion-kit-for-kipor-and-honda-generators.html

 

Or same kit from China for £40

(Ebay)

 

Not big enough to run a washing machine but good enough to run a good sized battery charger.

 

For what purpose do you want a Jennifer ?

Edited February 3, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Matt&Jo]

Primarily to restock the bank and to run the calorifier for hot water over the engine.

 

We have a washing machine onboard but dont really plan to use it due to space taken up (twintub and laundrettes will be order of the day going forward) 

 

 

[Movin' on]

Over the years - 3 portable gennys honda an equivalent that was blue with Honda insides (cant remember the name) and a Kippor 2000 all good and the last 2 ran washing machines - now have mastervolt whisper fully plumbed on board genny and nothing can touch it 

 

if you just want general capacity then Kippor is good LPG will keep your insurers on side - do remember if you store petrol you haven't got insurance

[Movin' on]

11 hours ago, Halsey said:

Over the years - 3 portable gennys honda an equivalent that was blue with Honda insides (cant remember the name) and a Kippor 2000 all good and the last 2 ran washing machines - now have mastervolt whisper fully plumbed on board genny and nothing can touch it 

 

if you just want general capacity then Kippor is good LPG will keep your insurers on side - do remember if you store petrol you haven't got insurance

Apologies it must be my age - it was not a Kippor but a Loncin 2000i and it was great and ran a small candy (normal boat size) automatic w/machine perfectly - recommended if you can't stretch to full installation.

[roland elsdon]

We bought a new honda ex 650 on gas in 1986 used it a lot living off grid on a butty.

we never repaired anything just changed the oil.

in 1996 we sold the butty sans geny and used it for powertools with the motor infrequently.

when we went back to live aboard on a conversion in 2000 we dug it out for emergencies. Disconnected the gas and put it in a flame locker. It got used infrequently from then until 2005 when we sold the boat.

cost per year was negligable. It still ran and worked fine after 20 odd years.

get what you pay for.

[Clodi]

11 hours ago, Halsey said:

- do remember if you store petrol you haven't got insurance

Can you elaborate please?

I have a Honda engined Stephill 2kw petrol genny. I've told my insurer, who was more concerned that it is kept locked away out of sight when the boat is unattended.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

I use a Kippor EG770 to charge the batteries. It's light, about 12KG I think so no hassle to take on and off the boat. It's chained to one of the supports for the handrail on the cruiser deck with a cover over it during the winter, it lives in my parents' shed during the summer, when solar does everything I need. Paid 170 quid for it off Ebay, unused. I'm usually putting less than 10A into the batteries, it has a smart button that reduces the revs, it averages 4 hours running on a litre of petrol. The petrol comes from my motor bike, via a syphon tube.

 

Not only is it more comfortable to run the petrol genny, no vibrating boat, running time costs are around 50% of the boat engine. And when I eventually wear it out it's a few hundred quid rather than several thousand.

 

Absolute no brainer for me.  

[Matt&Jo]

Great viewpoints all deffo steering towards genny

[Jennifer McM]

13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

With a 'proper' Jennifer you can lie in bed watching the TV and just press the remote control and the genny starts - even better - you can set it so it starts up automatically immediately it senses a voltage drop on the batteries.

 

No going out in the rain & snow

No finding someone has nicked it

No worrying about not having enough gas left to cook the tea

 

Technology !!!!!

Yes, this 'Jennifer' also empties the ash, builds a roaring fire , and has a pot of tea brewing before the 'captain' risks opening one eye! Wish I could have one  

[Bee]

9 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

Yes, this 'Jennifer' also empties the ash, builds a roaring fire , and has a pot of tea brewing before the 'captain' risks opening one eye! Wish I could have one  

Wot, no toast?

[Tom and Bex]

Living off grid and having done both, I sort of agree with mrsmelly. Our last boat was a trad with noisy aircooled lister, and although it would give good output from the alternator just above tickover, we tended to run the genny for power due to noise.

 

Our current boat has a more modern Izuzu engine, with sound insulaton and hospital silencer. You really struggle to hear the engine at all from the front of the boat. Last year we did a mix of engine and genny running, but there's no doubt the engine wins for convenience as well as giving a tank of hot water. This year with our lithium batteries, we've not run the genny at all. Why would we spend 3 hrs with the genny putting 30A into our batteries when we could run the main engine for an hour putting 90A in and get a tank of hot water as well.

 

A quick note on genny's though, get the best you can afford! If you can't run to a Honda then I go with Kipor. We started off with a cheap Impax one from Screwfix, but having replaced it twice during its 1 year warranty, when the third one packed up we went for a Kipor. Our neighbour went for a Clarke one,  the 1st he sent straight back as leaked fuel, the second was replaced after a couple month as no output, the 3rd  is still running, but only had it a month or so! 

 

The Kipor IG1000 we have is a bit under powered really for liveaboard use, but is still working fine after 2.5 years (used for 2 winters but not used at all this year).

[Movin' on]

1 hour ago, Clodi said:

Can you elaborate please?

I have a Honda engined Stephill 2kw petrol genny. I've told my insurer, who was more concerned that it is kept locked away out of sight when the boat is unattended.

I have been told by a number of surveyors over the years that petrol and petrol appliances unless stored in accordance with VERY rigorous regs invalidates the BSSC and therefore the insurance -and lets face it we all know that the first thing any insurer does in the event of a claim is to look for a way to mitigate their losses/costs.

 

It doesn't mean I didn't do it but IMHO  you must do these things with your eyes open...………………… and the OP should be made aware.

 

My edit of my earlier post above might have been missed - Loncin 2000i gets my vote

Edited February 4, 2019 by Halsey

[roland elsdon]

Of course if you have an generator and it fails you can charge with the engine. If you only have an engine and it breaks you have to get a sign saying broken down parts coming by yak cart from kurdistan where the only spare engine is located... and buy a genu to maintain your lifestyle.

personaly i would not have petrol on my boat so if i had to charge specifically  i would buy a gas geny. In reality being retired i just go for a boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

52 minutes ago, Tom and Bex said:

Why would we spend 3 hrs with the genny putting 30A into our batteries when we could run the main engine for an hour putting 90A in and get a tank of hot water as well.

It is the batteries that determine the amount of charge they will take and as the SoC gets higher the amount they will take decrease  so it doesn't matter what size engine/alternator or Generator / Battery charger combination you have as the batteries get towards 100% SoC then even a (say) 500Ah battery bank will only be taking 1 or 2 amps.

 

You may well have a 90A alternator but you will NOT be putting 90amps in the batteries for an hour.

 

You may find (for example) that you get 90 amps for 10-20 minutes, 50 amps for 20 minutes, 25 amps for 20 minutes 10 amps for a couple of hours, 5 amps for 4 hours and 2 amps for 8 hours.

[Mad Harold]

Just seen this on E Bay.      Dial up dual fuel gennies on e bay and I'm sure you'll find it.

 

Dammit! can't post a link.

K-S-Gas and Benzin  Generator.

KS 3000G Dual Fuel Genny.

£507-88 + £63 p+p

From Germany.

[rusty69]

24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is the batteries that determine the amount of charge they will take and as the SoC gets higher the amount they will take decrease  so it doesn't matter what size engine/alternator or Generator / Battery charger combination you have as the batteries get towards 100% SoC then even a (say) 500Ah battery bank will only be taking 1 or 2 amps.

 

You may well have a 90A alternator but you will NOT be putting 90amps in the batteries for an hour.

 

You may find (for example) that you get 90 amps for 10-20 minutes, 50 amps for 20 minutes, 25 amps for 20 minutes 10 amps for a couple of hours, 5 amps for 4 hours and 2 amps for 8 hours.

Is that the same with Lithium batteries?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Is that the same with Lithium batteries?

Dunno - above my pay-grade.

(But - I seem to remember that they will take a higher charge for longer - could be wrong tho'.)

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Is that the same with Lithium batteries?

No

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Dunno - above my pay-grade.

(But - I seem to remember that they will take a higher charge for longer - could be wrong tho'.)

Me too. I'm waiting for the clever people to sort it all before jumping onboard. I suspect (though could be wrong) the OP has lead acid batteries, whilst Tom and Bex have Lithiums.

[WotEver]

10 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Just seen this on E Bay.      Dial up dual fuel gennies on e bay and I'm sure you'll find it.

 

Dammit! can't post a link.

K-S-Gas and Benzin  Generator.

KS 3000G Dual Fuel Genny.

£507-88 + £63 p+p

From Germany.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-S-Gas-and-Benzin-Stromaggregat-3-000-Watt-KS3000G-Dual-Fuel-Power-Generators/173686930321?epid=15026978229&hash=item28708c3b91:g:p~EAAOSwKSlb6Aa0