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pete harrison

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Everything posted by pete harrison

  1. 49359 was issued in 1990 and 52691 was issued in 1993. As a researcher of 'historic' narrow boats I can categorically assure you that PEARL BARLEY is a modern pleasure boat
  2. The core of my interest / research revolves around 'historic' narrow boats and the boat photographed and commented on above has a known and secure history. Any confusion in its original identity lays with Ernest Thomas and enthusiasts who take things at face value, but fortunately the B.C.N. gauge registers hold the answers in this case as this boat still has its plates - and yes this is the former Fellows, Morton and Clayton Ltd. steamer EMPEROR
  3. I have sent a message to the seller as this is the stern end of VELA, not the fore end as mentioned in the advert
  4. I do have enthusiast observations of some boats being towed up to Northwich but nothing for BICESTER. I have seen some photographs of large Grand Union motors ex-Wendover at Anderton but I can not find them at the moment. Back then British Waterways Board preferred to sell their redundant boats to preferred buyers, usually businesses rather than individuals. I am far from convinced that Anderton Canal Carrying Company bought the boats that they did from the 1968 Wendover Arm sales with the intention of re-commissioning them into their fleet, instead acquiring them speculatively for resale or on behalf of individuals
  5. Anderton Canal Carrying Company was established on 01 December 1967 to carry on where Willow Wren Canal Transport Services Ltd. northern fleet left off, taking over several of the boats as well as contracts. How much use they made of Anderton Lift or the salt / pottery trades I would not like to say, but they were active as a carrier until about 1970 with some boats not being returned to British Waterways Board until 1976. The last working boat ever to be health registered was Anderton Canal Carrying Company's butty ARGO, as late as 26 September 1969
  6. JANE is a B.C.N. day boat, and has nothing to do with Thomas Bantock - but a lot to do with G. and D. Crannage, Brierley Hill and later the South Western Division and Midlands Region of 'British Waterways' who subsequently shortened it from 70'8'' to its current length. There is nothing to suggest to me that JANE substantially pre-dates its only gauge of BCN23351 - 07 February 1921 - so the claimed build date of 1890 is highly unlikely. I have known this boat since the 1970's, and some on here might remember it being paired with the new build 50' unconverted motor DANIEL in the mid to late 1980's. JANE has been tied in Bristol for the past 30 years, and pretty much on the same mooring for all of that time
  7. Behind the scenes I have had some communication with 'Paddle' - but perhaps the subject of the rights and wrongs of narrow boat restoration warrants its own thread rather than distracting from boats for sale
  8. Hidden amongst Ebay is the back end of the Fellows, Morton and Clayton Ltd. 1903 horse boat EGYPT for £6500 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48-Project-Canal-Boat/202999078371?_trkparms=aid%3D888008%26algo%3DDISC.CARDS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225076%26meid%3D57925da1d4eb42eca0066678f0c8e5d0%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D293590051890%26itm%3D202999078371%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDiscV1&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982
  9. You are losing me now, but I suppose it depends on how big or small the circles are that you are going around in ! If it makes you feel better my large Northwich motor has a welded steel bottom and footings dating to 2003, a welded steel engine room dating to 1969 and a welded steel cabin dating to 1979ish. It also has a 1995 three cylinder diesel engine (but of an oldish design) with a PRM gearbox. We have recently removed a steel undercloth cabin conversion to return the boat to cloths, and in the process removed steel gunwales around the hold and replaced them with wood (iroko not oak). The other thing here is that I am not hiding behind a pseudonym, making me personally accountable for my input on this Forum. I will not be adding any further to this particular topic until you reveal your identity as I am wondering if you are 'trolling' edit - one way or another I know most of the pseudonym's real identities on here, or at least those that I deal with long term.
  10. As did Willow Wren Canal Carrying Company Ltd. at about the same time edit = I would like to be clear that I have no problem with composite boats that have been re-bottomed in steel, and to a large extent I understand why it has been done over the years. I do however have a problem when the few composite boats that still have wooden bottoms are seen as inferior, especially those that have been professionally re-bottomed in recent years with opepe or similar.
  11. Oak and elm were used back in the day as they were in plentiful supply in the UK, but that does not mean that they were the best that nature provides. The world is a much smaller place now and foreign wood has been proven to be both suitable and accessible (sustainable is another question), both of which allows the overall fabric and design philosophy of these boats to be maintained, whilst our native source of suitable timber has reduced considerably. 21st century intrusion is fine by me if it allows a wooden cabin not to leak, and I lived in a leaky wooden back cabin for several years (Company owned boat). Again these adhesives and sealants allow the overall fabric and design philosophy of these boats to be maintained whilst also providing the opportunity for the cabin e.t.c. to be robust. Replacing wood for steel has become such common practice that the few remaining boats that are as true to their design as reasonably practical should be cherished and not seen as second rate
  12. As I have said the maintenance of a recently fitted opepe wooden bottom is equivalent to a steel bottom, but they require different things that offset one another: keep the bottom clean, especially behind the knee bends - this is the same for wood or steel bottoms. dock every couple of years for inspection - this is the same for wood or steel bottoms - wooden bottoms will be inspect overall condition, inspect shoe plating and inspect caulking and bottom bolts whereas steel boats will be inspect overall condition - inspect sacrificial edge of base plate - inspect for excessive rust / pitting. repair as required - wooden bottom requires no paint - caulk bottom seams as required - ensure shoe plating and bottom bolts secure and replace / renew as required whereas steel bottom requires removal of corrosion, repairs to sacrificial edge of base plate, weld infill of excessive pitting, prime and paint with several coatings of choice. Sufficiently elevated plinths will be required to carry out a good quality docking to the bottom of a wooden boat or steel boat - so no difference, and both will require somebody spending several hours laying on their back whether you do this work yourself or chose to have this work done by a boatyard. On balance these seem pretty much the same to me, but again I am not writing about soggy old elm bottoms that are life expired and often the subject of memory or conversation on this Forum
  13. I think it worth pointing out that the vast majority of the wooden bottom in PRINCESS ANNE is almost new, being fitted by Brinklow Boat services only a few years ago. This bottom was replaced from the fore end to the engine room, as well as several under the back cabin / engine room with only a few older but perfectly serviceable bottom boards remaining in place. This bottom is made of opepe and will outlast most steel bottoms of a similar age so really is not a negative point, especially on a boat being used for pleasure. I took a look at this bottom a couple of months ago when it was on the dock at Brinklow and it looked very good. PRINCESS ANNE represents remarkable value to my mind and really ought to be snapped up as just about everything has been done (at great expense), let alone it being a boat with a very strong history. It is a tragedy that almost every composite 'historic' boat has been re-bottomed in steel, and that today's 'enthusiasts' reject a wooden bottom based upon the hearsay of those who know no better or the memories of soggy life expired 1950's elm bottoms of the past. Foreign woods have transformed this situation, and improved construction practice combined with modern adhesives and sealants mean that wooden bottoms, cabins, gunwales, cants, decks e.t.c. can and should be preserved - the alternative is that 'historic' boats will become modern welded steel pleasure boats that only give the outward appearance of being something that they are not edit - I have deliberately placed this into two separate threads as I think boats with new / fairly new bottoms of foreign wood (opepe) are getting unnecessary bad press. So many potential owners / enthusiasts do not seem to understand that a new wooden bottom should outlast a steel bottom of the same age with the same level of maintenance.
  14. I think it worth pointing out that the vast majority of the wooden bottom in PRINCESS ANNE is almost new, being fitted by Brinklow Boat services only a few years ago. This bottom was replaced from the fore end to the engine room, as well as several under the back cabin / engine room with only a few older but perfectly serviceable bottom boards remaining in place. This bottom is made of opepe and will outlast most steel bottoms of a similar age so really is not a negative point, especially on a boat being used for pleasure. I took a look at this bottom a couple of months ago when it was on the dock at Brinklow and it looked very good. PRINCESS ANNE represents remarkable value to my mind and really ought to be snapped up as just about everything has been done (at great expense), let alone it being a boat with a very strong history. It is a tragedy that almost every composite 'historic' boat has been re-bottomed in steel, and that today's 'enthusiasts' reject a wooden bottom based upon the hearsay of those who know no better or the memories of soggy life expired 1950's elm bottoms of the past. Foreign woods have transformed this situation, and improved construction practice combined with modern adhesives and sealants mean that wooden bottoms, cabins, gunwales, cants, decks e.t.c. can and should be preserved - the alternative is that 'historic' boats will become modern welded steel pleasure boats that only give the outward appearance of being something that they are not edit - I have deliberately placed this into two separate threads as I think boats with new / fairly new bottoms of foreign wood (opepe) are getting unnecessary bad press. So many potential owners / enthusiasts do not seem to understand that a new wooden bottom should outlast a steel bottom of the same age with the same level of maintenance.
  15. I have only ever known 'cross winding' to mean going into a lock a bit sideways, whether loaded or unloaded, due to poor judgement or incompetence. I would never do this deliberately to slow a boat down as it can cause considerable damage. Perhaps the term 'cross winding' is regional and it is known by other terms elsewhere
  16. The northern wide boats were used in the earlier days of this contract, and were all replaced by narrow boat pairs
  17. In its last carnation the Thurmaston gravel traffic was handled by push tugs and wide hoppers
  18. Here is something I have probably put on here before Narrow boats in Threefellows Carrying fleet. (not all at the same time and not in chronological order). Motors. APPLE (ex Fellows Morton & Clayton Ltd.) (camping boat but carried for last two years or so) BEXHILL (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Woolwich) BLETCHLEY (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Woolwich) BUXTON (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Woolwich) CHISWICK (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Woolwich) (also operated by private owner after being sold) HALSALL (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Northwich) Buttys. ABOYNE (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Woolwich) ARGUS (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Small Woolwich) BANBURY (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Woolwich) BRIGHTON (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Woolwich) DITTON (ex L.M.S.R., ex British Waterways Board)(camping boat) TAURUS (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Middle Northwich) Wide boats in Threefellows Carrying fleet. (Company and Private owners) SHIRLEY (ex Leeds & Liverpool Canal ‘Short Boat’) A38 (ex Leeds & Liverpool Canal ‘Short Boat’) JUNE (ex Air & Calder) SOAR TESS WYE (ex Leeds & Liverpool Canal ‘Short Boat’) Private owners were able to put their narrow boats to work at Thurmaston. These include: Motors. WHITBY (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Large Northwich) PRINCE (ex Associated Canal Carriers Ltd. – Royalty Class) Buttys. PICTOR (ex G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. – Small Woolwich)
  19. The narrow boats operating on the Thurmaston gravel traffic were owned by a combination, mostly by Threefellow Carrying with a few privately operated but in in Threefellows Carrying livery. This was a hard driving contract with the boats only travelling a couple of miles and one lock between the loading conveyor and the discharge point, and reloading several times a day. This workload and the requirement for hard work is demonstrated by the overall condition of the boats involved, and pretty much like most in trade were treated by the Company as items of plant - leading to there being a few casualties. What this traffic did do was give a number of enthusiasts the opportunity to work with fully loaded narrow boats from the mid 1970's to the late 1980's, the main alternatives being camping boats (which I did for six years) or hotel boats. Many former commercial narrow boats have their sides pushed in about level with the mast, and these are often termed as being caused by 'cross winding' - and caused by going into locks (mainly narrow locks) a bit sideways, especially when loaded. This is then amplified by buttys running down the side as they often make contact with the motor in the same area. Stamford was not part of the Threefellows Carrying concern, but was on the lime juice traffic pretty much until it ended, initially with British Waterways Board and then with Tam and Di Murrell
  20. The bent hulls were not caused by winding - more to do with the unsympathetic way these boats were emptied edit = the wooden gunwales were removed for much of the length of the hold of most if not all of the boats on this traffic. All of the narrow boats employed by Threefellows Carrying are still extant and all have been straightened, with a few now trading as fuel boats. photograph taken from Matt Parrott's website some years ago
  21. All of the paintings on that organ thing are copies of published photographs. The motor passing down a Staffs and Worcs canal lock is T. & S. Elements MAYFLOWER - published in Eric de Mare The Canals of England page 58 - claims to be Bratch. The large group of boats is at the top of Wolverhampton locks - published in Paul Collins Black Country Canals page 16. The Claytons motor TEES and its butty passing through High Bridge in August 1955 - published in Alan H. Faulkner's Claytons of Oldbury page 17. The Shropshire Union horse boat is ELECTOR at Stourport in 1910 - published in Tom Chaplins hardback version of Narrow Boats pages 2 and 3. These are just examples of where these images have been reproduced, and some have been re-published numerous times - and demonstrate that the painter of this organ used little in the way of artistic interpretation, but can be credited for adding some colour
  22. All the talk of potential restoration costs versus comparative prices of other boats lead me to forget that as a 'historic' narrow boat owner myself and carrying out a restoration that far exceeds the end value of my boat I wish the owner of CONWAY well with their project, and as a researcher of 'historic' narrow boats I look forward to seeing the end result and recording the next chapter in CONWAY's varied history
  23. Like you I have no doubt that the costs involved with sorting out CONWAY could easily exceed the asking price of PRINCESS ANNE, and is almost certainly going to exceed the end value of CONWAY by several times
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