Tunneltug

Yes please Martyn that would be very helpful. Regards - Keith

Dear Martin, thanks for this clarification which makes perfect sense now I have got off my high horse. I'm sorry if I was over reactionary and have taken your comments on board. You're right that the written word can sometimes not convey the desired message even though the words are correct and I should have spotted this. I do apologise for my abrasive paragraphs there's no real excuse. Regards Keith

"Bodge at your peril" an interesting term from somebody who knows nothing about me or my 30 years as a chartered engineer, and not one of the people who call themselves engineers because they strip and reassemble engines but the sort of engineer that understands engines and mechanics from the Otto Cycle to the eutectic characteristics of white metal, the sort of engineer that has designed single crystal components to as I said before having been dragged out of my cushy engineers office to stand knee deep in sewage to get a pump running when the mechanics had given up and hand scraped pre-war Daimler white metal bearings. I'm sorry to be so pompous but the the assumption that I cannot make the judgement regarding a reasonable and appropriate repair of a basic engine without "bodging" is both condescending and outrageous. I originally asked the forum for tips on a seized engine that I haven't worked on before and I received that info from a contributor who told me that it will be the big end farthest from the flywheel. Good info thanks it took me Ten minutes to free the seize with this info. I can say however that boat owners are more precious about their engines than aircraft owners and this seems to have been elevated to an art form to the point where an engine with the slightest signs of wear has to be ripped out and completely rebuilt and of course polished something I admit you will never catch me doing. Thank you all for your valuable input which has been useful it is always worth respecting the knowledge and experience of others. Alan's engine has suffered years of neglect, negligence and even bodging however to suggest that anything less than a full engine out strip down and overhaul is a bodge is frankly nonsense. Thank you once again but I think this thread has served its purpose and ran its course. Regards Keith

Hi Richard, I havent got them with me they're still on the boat, I'll get them soon and get back to you but it's probably not going to be before Wednesday now as I've got to do some stuff before joining Hasty at Braunston for the rally. Speak soon, Keith

I am astonished how intolerant JP engines are turning out to be and how fragile, I don't really know how they got the reputation of being a work horse. I worked in the pump industry for years, from designing new pumps to on site servicing up to my knees in sewage. We sold a few hundred pumps a year from 2 to 10inch most of these used lister engines but we did fit Cummings, hatz and even some big german petrol engines whatever the customer asked for (in one case we made 6 pumps with 50hp DC electric motors). These pumps had to work hard for a living and occasionally came in for an expensive factory rebuild. These things were doing 15 thousand hours between rebuilds and were still recoverable. We obviously never used JPs and I think that was a good thing as we would have gone bankrupt with the short service period they offer between major rebuilds, they wouldn't have been able to do the job. I think I should recommend that Alan dumps the jp and installs something more robust. Ha Ho, it's Alan's decision.

Can anybody recommend a supplier of big end shells and perhaps shims for a JP2? I miked the journals up and they came to 2.975" diameter which I am assuming started out at 3.00"and have had a 10 thou grind. There are a few on eBay and other sites but if there is a particularly recommended supplier I'd be grateful for details. Thanks again Keith

Mike, I know Alan appreciates it and I know once the historical neglect of Egypt has been reversed he will look after her which is the most satisfying thing

Wise words, for the sake of a few quid I think I'll bung some new shells in. The existing one that seized isn't in an unserviceable condition, a bit of scoring on the front edge but generally not bad, I've seen worse. I'll mike-up the journals which are very good indeed and source the corresponding shells. I think Egypt has been very lucky, I will also put the bodged union right before proceeding and flush the oil system. Thank you all for the very helpful info and tips. Just goes to show this forum is indeed a very valuable resource. All the best Keith

Just un-seized Egypt's engine. Luckily there doesn't seem to have been any obvious damage and the big end that had locked up freed as soon as I slackened the bolts on one side. I've pumped it with oil and put it back together, on hand cranking 20psi was soon achieved on the pressure gauge although it started at 5psi. The oil was lost through a union up to the oil injector one of the two pipes coming up from the beneath the flywheel was leaking. This wasn't obvious as the oil ran down the pipe and sneakily dripped into the bilge some distance away. The soldered joint at tail had at some time in the distant past had failed and one of the previous owners had bodged it up with sealant which had hardened and failed.Once this is Properly reinstated we'll fire her up and see what happens. I know this isn't ideal but this engine which is tired from previous negligence and neglect and is in need of a lot of TLC won't be coming out in the near future to be rebuilt. For now its field repairs only but we will get her in good working condition over the next couple of seasons. Thanks to everybody for their help and suggestions. Regards - Keith

Thanks all for your help and suggestions, Getting the engine out would be the only way of getting the crank out to change the mains.I haven't actually examined the engine yet but am going by what the owner told me. It all sounds a bit serious really and perhaps she isn't going to Braunston this year. I've just got back from a long break in France but hope to get in the engine room tomorrow to have a sniff around. Incidentally, soon after Hasty's launch all the bearings were new and perhaps a little under shimmed and when we were coming through bridge 13 on the Coventry the engine squeaked a bit then seized solid. I slackened the big ends off a little,squirted a bit of oil in and off we went. I checked them out later and there was no damage and so shimmed them properly but I guess this is the advantage of gun metal bearings over babbitt. Not much chance of this being the case on Egypt I guess.

I have a friend who's JP2 seized on a recent short trip. On inspection an oil union had failed and the oil lost into the bilge so its fair to assume the seizure is oil starvation caused. I have not done a great deal of work on small engines like this but will try to help my friend out over the next week or so to see if we can get his boat to the Braunston show. Does anybody have any experience of a seized lister JP2. My experience on larger engines was that the big end bearings were the most likely culprits but I have no idea on this model can anybody with actual experience help please. Thanks

There are a lot of misconceptions about Steam Powered Tunnel Tugs and the smoke they allegedly spewed out in the tunnels. The GJCCo were still using steam powered tunnel tugs well into the 1930s and this is because a well managed steam engine produced far less smoke and fumes than its contemporary diesels, and this is still the case today. The GJCCo tunnel tugs had much bigger boilers than needed because this provided a large steam reservoir which would see the boat through the tunnel with a white fire on the grate. A white fire is one that has "Consumed its smoke" meaning it had burned off all the volatiles which if using soft dry welch steam coal are almost insignificant anyway. The tugs driver would heavily stoke the boiler a minute before exiting the tunnel, this new coal would then get hotter whilst the boat was turned and by the time it was ready to enter the tunnel for the return trip the fire would be white and be producing no smoke. I'm sure however there were occasions where cheap coal was delivered, and the turn-around was forced to be quicker than needed resulting in some smoke being discharged in the tunnel.

Wise words Phil, I only wish that the same ethos could be applied to the profession of engineering. I went through all the hoops to gain the title of Chartered engineer taking many years including apprenticeship, university and post grad experience however in line with the sentiments you express it seems that in the UK anybody who has a screw driver is a an engineer especially if he can fix an engine. But like you say "Them fancy so called experts" ant a patch on a bloke thats had a lifetime at the university of hard knocks. Not a lot to do with this topic but sort of reinforces your view that if you want an expert opinion, ask a qualified expert

I have learned that whatever you post on this forum will be pulled apart and requoted out of context until the content is completely misleading but I guess that is my fault for failing to communicate well enough. I think the CRT would work a lot better if we (and I speak for myself as a boater but decline to state which sect I belong to) at least try to make it work, this is just my opinion which I believe it or not I am entitled to even if you disagree with it. I think Richard Parry is worth every penny of his salary and if it were higher I wouldn't change my opinion. I don't tend to spent a lot of time sulking about what other people earn, I know the MD of the company I work for is on five times my salery and good for him, he's a good boss, he got us through Gotdon Browns 2008 disaster and given me 15 years of enjoyable, gainful employment so I stand by my comment that where management as much as skilled or professional staff "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys" and after a lifetime working in the private sector where the balance book matters, I know a good CEO is worth his/her weight in gold. I will continue to support the CRT wherever I can and if things are going wrong for me I will deal with that in a constructive manor

1. reduce the salaries of the top directors to NT levels In my experience "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys", good, strong and competent leadership doesn't come cheap

Hi Tom and Becky, if you're not already sorted we have a 70 footer that said they would be leaving us at Swan Lane Wharf (Stoke Heath Basin) in Coventry around that date so if they do leave we would have space for you.

Keep looking Jenny, something will come up that fits your requirements and price range, I've seen decent boats sell for £10K, you just have to put out as many feelers as you can so people let you know when a boat becomes available for a "quick sale". you'll only ever learn by doing.

I am no expert but I do know the paint bases have been forced to change within the past 5 years to make them more environmentally friendly. My friend has just had his steam boat Adamant cut back to the metal and repainted (August this year) and that has blistered already, like somebody has thrown sand into the paint but they are tiny blisters. I wander of modern environmentally friendly paints or primers are more prone to moisture ingress during application.

the funny thing about John and Magic Dragon is that for 4 years he told his wife he was just nipping to help out on his on his mates farm when really he was secretly making this lovely boat, I'm not sure if she knows to this day

I was a skeptic about desulfators at first but the kit only cost £16 on eBay and I couldn't see it doing any harm being only 65mA. I installed it last year when the batteries had been in use for 2 years. At that time the voltage across the individual cells varied from 2.1 to 2.25 volts and the acid varied accordingly so when I saw that after only about 12 months the cells had been completely equalised at the top end of the range was a pleasant surprise. Interestingly all but one of the cells were Fiamm but the one that had to be replaced was a hawker, unfortunately the replacement cell is also a hawker because Fiamm are no longer available I'm told.

I guess this has been discusses to death but I thought I'd just document my recent battery experience. My boat is steam powered so battery charging will always be a bit difficult because the engine turns at about 150rpm Max. I do have a 70amp alternator running on a 1:20 belting system so it does get up to 3000rpm. There is a separate steam powered generator which gives 20A and I have a portable Honda powered alternator charging set capable of 70a. Knowing that charging batteries would be a bit hap hazard I decided to use a set of small traction batteries bought second hand on eBay for £150. Each 2v cell is 400mm tall, 200mm wide and 65mm deep and they were made in 1992. Their total when wired up to 12v is 480Ah. I put them in 2 wooden boxes and fitted a good quality desulfator. I have 30a 12v charger built into the boat electrical system. When not planning to light the boiler, I would regularly use the boat for a week without charging the batteries and the voltmeter would drop from 13.5v to 12.5v but the alternator would charge them up fully in about six good hours in steam. Recently after 3 years installed in the boat, a cell went down and the voltage was difficult to maintain although still very useable. I bought a replacement cell for £80.00 dropped it and all was back to normal. Out of interest I checked all the other cells, all of them were exactly 2.25v and the electrolyte was toward the top of green section on the hydrometer so basically like new. I put this down to the permanently wired-in 65mA desulfator because the electrolyte condition wasn't that good or voltage as even when I bought them. Out of interest, the cost of a brand new set of 12 cells was about £800+vat which sounds steep but if they are going to last 20 to 25 years without any real problems or difficulties I think it's well worth it. Just thought I would write this down for you to make of it what you will. Regards - Keith

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I've got a Nelson Tecma 2 hob, grill and oven but one of the hobs and the grill just don't work. The flame lights buts goes out when the button is released. No matter how long the button is held, when it's released the flame goes out. The other hob and the oven work perfectly. It's obviously something to do with the flame out safety device. It was bought new but unfortunately the fit out took so long that by the time it was finished the guarantee on the cooker had ran out. Has anybody had any experience of this. Is it easily fixed or is there a manufacturer that I need to contact. Thanks - Keith

We did it in mid May north from Oxford to Braunston without any trouble at all and we draw 40 inches. We did get a bit of scraping at Fenny Compton tunnel though

Thinking on it, the boat you describe wouldn't have made it through any of the big tunnels like Braunston or Blisworth perhaps it was a decommissioned Bridgewater tugs I'm unsure of their exact dimensions but the boat you describe wasn't far off. But none of them were built by Bushells. I'm unsure why a tunnel tug was built in 1936 when the Braunston and Blisworth tunnel tugs had been withdrawn by then because they were obsolete. I think that without any other information other than this one entry it remains that all Bushells steam powered tunnel tugs were narrow.