Sid Charles

Hi Guys I thought, seeing as I have got a lot of the recent pressure off my back, I would post something that isn't asking for advice, just moving along with the build it's 26 Months now (no wonder my back and my mushy peas are hurting) I was leaving the engine room until last, even said I could do it whilst on the cut, but I might as well do it now, I am insulating and lining it with 9mm Ply, and doing a few Oak trims here and there, I am still using what will become the bedroom has a workshop, so there is always a lot of sawdust flying around and I won't have that space once on the water, so I am hoping to get all woodwork done and dusted. I jumped the gun and had 6 pairs of curtains made by a really lovely lady who is near North Kilworth Wharf, they are lovely, but sat in my back bedroom at home ah ah, today I began planning the tiling of the hearth, the structure is all according to the regs but I have never laid a tile in mty71 years on this planet, my mate who is a bathroom fitter told me that if I have to cut any down start with those in the corner (you won't see them when the fire goes in) I am hoping for a good run on it tomorrow. I also brought the solar cables in through the roof and into the DC isolator and I keep admiring my engine temperature gauge now it works ah ah ah, I am wiring in some lights in the engine department, one of those in a cage lights under the is it the counter? so I can see the weed hatch, also a light that I can direct on the ceiling, I have also wired up a bilge pump to go near the stern gland, stuck it onto a steel plate with Araldite to keep it down...I feel Happy

Conclusion to my gas leak goes like this (please remember this boat is on a farm sat on 15 inch thick railway sleepers) so I had installed the fairly straightforward gas piping, and then I had a gas safe engineer come and check it out for me, my concern was the bulkhead fitting being so awkward to reach, and I thought he would say it needs to be accessible, but he said it looked to be all correct, however he told me that the 2 Bullfinch valves were not Bullfinch, they were Midland Chandler copies made in China and were not up to regulations due to having no taper where the olive sits (they are a flat) and the olives may leak, so he told me to scrap them and find alternatives, I actually had a proper Bullfinch which I showed him, he agreed that if I fit that and find one to replace the other Chinese one all would be OK and at that point call him again to come and test, I showed him that I had a test point easily get at able, and in the gas locker a brand new Alde gas bubble tester, it was at that moment he looked at the gas tails and told me that they were old and needed replacing. So over the coming weeks I completed all the tasks but I had no gas, no rush! Well, I eventually bought some gas 2 bottles and replaced the old chain that secures them, it was at that point I thought lets turn the gas on and see what we get, gas turned on and I press the bubble tester, loads of bubbles, I could n't understand it, my joints were so good? that evening I rang the gas safe fella and he told me I must have a leak somewhere, I came on the Forum to see what you fella's thought, one of you I think Alan said get some gas detector fluid, but it was Bank holiday, so I used washing up liquid, and no leaks, I went back down the ladder (let me tell you my legs are shot using this ladder) then I have to carry the ladder to the stern to get up to the gas locker, I tested the bubble tester and still bubbles. I turned the gas off, down the ladder and up again at the bow (legs) I walked through the boat and as I reached the rear I actually smelled the gas, my worst fears, it was that bulkhead fitting. I had little option but to do a completely new one, I had used a compression fitting on both sides and obviously, it wasn't tight, I was told to use the hollow type and I knew better? so I bit the bullet and ordered a full reel of gas pipe, another fitting and a few other things. So yesterday I painfully removed all the existing gas pipe all fixed very carefully under the gunnels. I then drilled through the new long compression fitting, I couldn't remove the old fitting so a new hole had to be drilled (on the ladder ouch) I took the nut and olive off the fitting and got it in place, then sent 15 metres of pipe through (up and down the ladder 20 times) working on my own with nobody to pull the pipe from the inside, when it was all but in I decided now was the time to create the awkward 2 bends in the pipe with my tool, I was so pleased when the bends turned out absolutely brilliant, I pushed the pipe further in to the gas locker, it was at that point I noticed something, I had not put the nut and olive on the pipe and it won't go around the bloody bends I had just made...Jesus help me. So I cut the lovely bends off and launched them, I put the olive and nut down the pipe and started again with the 2 awkward bends, and I must point out that the pipe going through the boat had to be fiddled into a nice place under the gunnels and I had to use cable ties to secure it as I moved along, the bends were made, but they were not as good as the initial one I did, I got it all to look nice and neat, connected the Alde bubble tester and made absolutely sure that every joint was real tight ( my legs were now like jelly) I turned the gas on and said a prayer...not a single bubble, what a total dick head, it has cost me dearly that most important fitting that I somehow didn't secure fully , I must add I have worked with Pneumatics, water, steam, gas the lot during my engineering career and apart from the odd poor weld I have never made a poor joint over 40 years, and I mess up on my boat, well it is a lesson, I should have listened to the fella who told me to use the straight through fitting. So I have called the gas safe guy and he is going to come over and test it all with his equipment, but I know it is now after a marathon all good to go...off to massage my legs................

Glad you said that because that was my plan 10mm drill in my lathe straight through.

Hi Please convince me that I am not losing the plot, you see when I stripped this old boat of all it's previous wiring and gas piping, I found the fitting where the copper pipe passes through the bulkhead into the gas locker was a straight-through type, it did have olives to clamp the tube, but the 3/8 copper was not cut. I went to Midland Chandlers and I was looking at the fittings, I decided to go with the one that has a compression fitting at either side, so the copper pipe comes into it from both sides and is fitted with an olive, I remember at the time the salesman questioned me if I had the correct one? anyway that was 18 months ago. Only recently, I tested the gas and by using the Alde bubble test I found there was a leak, and of all places in the most difficult place to reach, and so I have had to strip woodwork and all sorts to get to it ( I had previously shown the Gas safe guy and asked if its limited accessibility was OK and he was happy with it) but then I found it was leaking very slightly, so I went onto the Midland Chandlers website to find the straight through one, there are quite a number of them but they all say compression, so I picked the one that sounded right, when it arrived it is the same as the one which was leaking, so I rang Midland Chandlers and was passed around to various staff, non of them really knew what I was explaining, they promised to call me back, but I am still waiting. So my question is does anyone know if the straight through type are available, I am sure I wasn't dreaming, I kept the old one but I cannot find it now.

No Alan it goes through a fitting and the copper pipe is clamped, but the one I chose is a compression fitting either side of the bulkhead, so an olive which has to be a good seal on both sides, the lad at Midland Chandlers did say at the time that he would choose the hollow type, but I always know best and end up paying for it.

Well I used some M&S washing up liquid and I tried a squirt of WD40 and all my joints are 100% however my worst fears were about to come about, when I went inside the boat and walked right through to the engine I could actually smell gas even though it was now turned off, it could only be one thing, the bloody bulkhead fitting, then I suddenly had a flash back to when I fitted it, I had purchased the compression type to replace the old decaying one which went straight through, I thought I was being smart rather than having to fiddle a long length of 3/8 copper through, I could lock it off on the inside and then the other end inside the gas locker ( my locker is gunnel height with access from the canal bank) so on the day of fitting I had a young guy helping, he wasn't much use and he didn't last long, but on the day I said to him " hold this spanner on and I will go in the locker and tighten from the other side", I didn't trust him but it looked as if all was OK, well it wasn't was it, he had trapped the copper olive, how I don't know, but he had, I put a spanner on and it seemed tight, yes it was but not gas tight, problem is I then built my shower which partly shrouds the fitting, so I have bitten the bullet and drilled a brand new hole a few inches away, and I will fit a bulkhead fitting like it used to have, I managed to fish out the copper tubing as it passes through the bathroom area ( and I had done such a good job of clipping it up under the gunnels) I'm gutted! but I am going to make a straight compression joint at that point so as to not disturb my piping any further, then hopefully we will have a gas tight system...bugger.

That's a good idea, I think I will Can't get any until next week, what about washing up liquid?

Oh right, sorry a bit hot headed today after things going tits up for the n'th time, yes I couldn't afford a boat really, so I bought this wreck, well actually I wasn't bothered about the interior, it had a hull survey and for a boat built in 1978 it was good, base plate, the thinnest point found is 8.4 mm which is great, some pitting at the waterline and an engine that ran, that's all I wanted, I knew I was in for a penny in for a pound. I stripped it out virtually alone, learning all the way. I'm an engineer but not a plumber, not a joiner and not an electrician but I have a brain, unlike some I see who buy boats and don't have a clue about anything (oh help, there's water coming in) etc and it's the flippin stern gland leaking, they don't know eff all. I'm not one of that type I am a hands on and sort it out, yes it's more than 2 years since I started, but I have got the charging electrics working, the 12 volt house wiring done all by myself and even the 230 v from the shoreline/Inverter/3 way switch to a consumer unit again I did it all. Having said all that I come on here for a bit of advise because you people have been there and done that, Tony Brooks has helped me a lot and I always listen to what Jen in wellies has to say, and of course, you and others too many to mention. So in the morning I am over to the boat, I'm going to split the gas pipe at the first compression fitting and fit an stop valve, then do a gas bubble test, it hat proves good I will move along until I find the joint that seems to be leaking (which I was 100% sure would not) I have worked with steam and water and I take care my joints are real good, but everyone can F up now and again. Thanks for contributing Alan.

Are you having a go at me?

Looking at all your valid replies today I ran the engine and topped up the expansion tank which is mounted just above the engine, so is actually higher than any water level either in the skin tank or the engine itself, I stopped adding water when the vessel was showing water half way up, when I stopped the engine the water stayed at that level, I'll look again tomorrow, I have more worrying stuff on my mind because only today have I tested my gas piping for the first time since the install using my bubble tester, and there are bubbles! there has been a lot of effing going on, I am dead sure of all my joints, when I say all I mean the copper piping goes all the way from the gas locker to the kitchen where there is a TEE (all nuts very tight) it tee's off to a Bullfinch valve which isolates the gas hob, the other side of the tee goes to the brand new Thetford oven but to a gas valve first. I wonder if I am doing it right? I turned the gas on (there is a change over valve) so I had that set to the relevant bottle, I then tested to see if gas was arriving at the 2 appliances and it was, then I shut both isolators off, went to the bubble tester and depressed it and there are bubbles. The instructions say hold it for 10 seconds so I did but the bubbles continued meaning I have a leak, I spoke to my friendly gas safe fella and he says it must be one of my joints F**K me, brilliant I'll have to eliminate them one by one, all the joints are tight but not stupid tight as to damage something, tomorrow is another day I suppose.

Hi Guys Does anyone have an internal drawing of a calorifier? I would like to know what the 2 x hoses from my engine connect to within the vessel, I am aware there is a straight element rod but I really would like to know how what I presume is a sort of coiled tube? which hot engine water passes through, the reason I ask is I keep on topping up my engine expansion tank (the boat is on dry land) and when I return the following day the tank is dry, there are no leaks and the skin tank was vacuumed out as best as it could, then filled with water/anti freeze only then did I connect the skin tank to the cooling system, I appreciate I lost water from the engine jacket when I took the water pump off, but I have more than compensated for that, I suppose I will just keep filling it up, but I did wonder could it be entering the empty calorifier ( like the coil within is broken) ????

Thank you all, I feel so foolish

Apologies to everyone, it was me! What a plonker I am, I have spent hours with wires strewn everywhere, tearing my hair out, all the questions and all your answers. So after work today at around 1pm I first did a resistance test on all 3 senders and I couldn't get a value on any of them, my test meter is Ok it is a RS Components one and I have used it loads for my work, so that was disappointing to begin with, so I went and sat next to the engine and replaced the old sender that the boat had when I bought it, I warmed the engine up hoping that a miracle would happen, but no still not a flutter on the gauge, then I re-introduced the old Lucas one and still nothing, so I thought I would try something that someone had suggested and removed the negative wire from the gauge because it should make the circuit through the sender to the engine, and that made no difference, I then extended the wiring so that I had the gauge in my hand whilst I sat puzzling, I swapped the wires around knowing they were right , but you never know, IT WAS AT THAT MOMENT THE LIGHTBULB CAME ON, I looked across at the domestic battery isolator and realised that during my frantic attempts to solve this I had taken my positive feed from a small positive busbar in my switch panel and the feed from the batteries was OFF, you see I intended running a decent cable from the starter battery to feed the gauge but I forgot, so the positive feed was still coming via the domestic bank which was switched to OFF, I knew straight away, I stood up leaned over and turned the isolator to ON, I could have cried the gauge flicked straight over to just under 90 degrees, I sat with my head in my hands for a few moments as I realised I had only taken the positive as a temporary because the actual feed comes from the ignition key and the red wire which was sticking out when I bought the boat is actually the feed to the gauges in a sort of daisy chain, trouble is that cable is not in the round trunking from the ignition, so tomorrow I have some 10 mm split conduit and the red wire can go in that. I really am sorry for all that, it was one of the biggest blonde moments I have ever had lasting 3 days or more, sorry sorry sorry and thank everyone of you, all your suggestions were valid...I'm going for lie down in a dark room.

Tony, I tested crimps and each wire and the housing is metal and is grounded to the hull

On both the gauges old and new, if I connect a battery to pos and neg the needle shoots right over, don't like to do things like that, but it does prove there's some form of life