wanderinglotus

Yes this is exactly the mind state I'm in with this boat I don't know what the future holds & how long I'll be boating for, but I would love if the way I restore & maintain it means it lasts another 60 years. Really saddens me the state it's in at the moment & I wanna make sure it never gets like this again!

I am incredibly grateful for the wealth of experience & knowledge on this forum, hence why I have been so genuinely appreciative to those who have helped me. It's one of the things I love the most about boaters & one of the biggest things that lead me to boating. I truly don't wish to seem ungrateful for the knowledge shared here. But frankly this person has not been helpful, they have been nothing but contrary since I've started posting (see my other thread) with every response clearly trying to question whether or whether not it is an icebreaker. Whilst ignoring that I have seen evidence of this & have said this many times. I don't see any other way I'm meant to take that other than that I clearly don't know what I'm on about (even tho the source I have seen is also in the waterways archive, hardly likely to be fake) & others have explained credible ways this could be the case. They've also deliberately misinterpreted things Ive said in my other thread, acting like I'm saying things are true when I'm simply asking for opinions about whether said thing is accurate. I have tried to say this more politely twice on a previous thread, if I was misinterpreting he did have the opportunity to say that. I don't like drama, it's stresses me out & i tried to be polite but he has continued, hence why I genuinely asked if there was a way to block or mute. I'm glad you have found him to be that way. But I don't know him? And he's not been kind or helpful to me, only patronising & I should get to make my own judgements about people & set my own boundaries accordingly. I would like to know how he knows I've made a mistake judging how long the water has been in based off how damaged the wood is when he hasn't been in the boat? & Why it is really necessary to point out when im getting it surveyed anyway? Frankly, the boating world is already very hard to get into. With a massive cost involved, and a massive amount of knowledge needed which cannot be easily or cheaply accessed, I can see it already being in danger of being a tradition that doesn't survive long. I think that is a massive shame & am willing to put the work in to learn these things & would love to encourage other younger people to join me to do as much to record & share the knowledge, so it's not lost. But I can see that being difficult if to access that knowledge we need to put up with a culture of being patronised which seems to be implied here. I certainly hope that isn't the case, as it isn't in line with what I've found so far to be a very knowledgeable, friendly & kind community!

Thank you for your input- I think as long as the hull readings come back as good as they were in June I'll be going for it The 'guessing' I'm referring to is determining whether the damaged wood has been water damaged for months, or for years. Something I actually have quite alot of experience with & isn't exactly rocket science. The actually helpful members of the forum have recommended multiple surveyors who are knowledgeable in this area & I will walk away if thats what they advise. What other protections am I meant to take? As I've said multiple times already, I have seen the construction drawings & am happy with them. I don't need you to approve that it's really an icebreaker & frankly don't even really care if the concrete was original, it has protected the hull till now & will be coming out. Please stop commenting on my threads until you have something actually helpful to contribute. You have no idea what my skills are outside of this, what projects I've worked on & are being incredibly patronising. If anyone can point out where the block button is id appreciate it

Thank you for linking that- was planning on using their boatyard to remove the concrete if possible but will be definitely avoiding that now & being much more cautious about what they've told me ! I will say that how they've been with me so far- certainly in terms of customer service, is the complete opposite from alot of the bad experiences in that thread, maybe they've improved & gotten better staff in the past 10 years? Or maybe they just want my money? if anyone has more recent experiences I'd be interested to hear them! I will say, theyve seemed pretty insistent on the phone that the concrete is only in that one area, despite having not pulled up boards on the other end of the boat, which seems like a red flag! So ill make sure to be vigilant Really cool seeing all the different internal aspects of the bow like that- what an art form! thank you for sharing

Absolutely fascinating info to find out- thank you so much! Could I ask if you know any of the names of those boats or how the concrete held up in them?

I'm only 22 & whilst im pretty flighty & would like to travel internationally in the next 10 years & probably sell the boat, it would be good to have as good of an asset as possible to fund it ! I guess my thoughts are- im gonna be stripping it right down to steel ballast beams anyway, I may aswell be thorough & make sure the ballasts are all good before i spend a year doing the fit out only to discover she's rotting 😅 That's disappointing to hear I did try searching the forum to see what peoples experiences were but was largely just getting stuff about their boat show. If u have anything to link that would be helpful, but I'm definitely being cautious around them! I used to work in sales & have studied sales psychology briefly so am very aware of their ways! All valid points! To be fair- I don't think that braunston said it must have come in in the last few months, that was just based on my estimation of how much water damage I could see on the wood in the rest of the boat, the level of corrosion around the roof, the amount of water that I found there & that I couldn't really see much evidence of corrosion on the ballast beams (altho they're covered in black grease so hard to tell) The ultrasonic hull readings being as good as they are aswell, I would guess that they would be worse if it had been a long standing issue. But you're right that this is going off my estimations! Does anyone know if this something that could be covered in a survey if I can ensure some of the concrete & beams are visible? Thank you for the good luck wishes! I will definitely need them, but am very ready for a project to take on If I could be 100% sure that the concrete has been done in the correct way, then I would be open to it- but from what i can find it seems almost impossible to tell unless I could find someone very familiar with how yarwoods/bw built their boats, as from what I can gather it can depend on these factors: -whether it's dry -whether there are any cracks -whether it's still bonded to the steel (which im guessing you can't tell through the entire boat?) -what pH the concrete is -whether it was vibrated in -how the bilge was protected -how water is prevented from getting down to the bilge If I'm wrong about any of these or if anyone has any insight into how I could find these things out id love to know

Given the small rate of corrosion it's had in 60 years, it would seem it was doing a good job at protecting it- until water got in over the last few months! but im hoping that it won't have degraded too much in that time as the hull readings were really good! The density used will be whatever was standard for BW at the time- unfortunately i can't seem to find that out anywhere tho! Does certainly look like effort to do it 'right' has been put in. Thanks for sharing the article- helpful to get as many experiences as possible! The ultrasound tests are coming up really good thankfully! Can I ask what things you'd be looking for to check the concrete is solid? Yes I mean ballast not hull- sorry! Doing so much boat reading at the moment all the terms are starting to merge into one 😂 Luckily water seems to have only gotten in in the past 2 months & the ultrasonic readings are coming out good, so I'm hoping that I've caught it before it gets too bad! Thanks for sharing ur experience! I have also been considering if its really worth it, so far I'm leaning towards yes (as long as I can get a suitable price reduction) but if anyone wants to weigh in- feel free! With the budget I have, my other options are basically springers or hancocks that also need the inside completely re-doing. From what I've read, it seems there are many boats by those builders that also have a poured concrete ballast. So I don't want to say no to this, only to be left with boats with the same problem, far worse steel & no historical interest or uniqueness. So whilst it is alot of work, it seems like when it's done I'll have something worth far more than my other options? But if anyone can see why my thinking is wrong please feel free to tell me Thank you for explaining what's need to do it right- super helpful Yeah to be honest that's gone right over my head😂 but ill always support others learning so feel free to share all you want!

I can certainly tell that you have a really good technical understanding of this stuff & that you're an avid question asker! (As am I, think the thing I used to get in trouble for the most as a kid was asking 'but why')😂 I hope my curiousity leads me to as much understanding as you have one day! Thank you for writing out the two options with the pros & cons- it's made things a lot clearer, which my ADHD brain really appreciates! My current plan is to ring round boatyards & get a quote for both removing the concrete & rebottoming & see where that brings the two figures to. If I reckon I can get away offering the rebottoming figure then I will- but have a feeling it will get rejected, as they will also know that the concrete has been done in the most protective way possible (in steel casing & covered in bitumen) & that the water has only come in recently so very unlikely to have done major hull damage, but it's certainly worth a try & if not I'll have a back up offer thanks again for all the help & knowledge sharing Not saying I'm gonna keep it- but the concrete does certainly seem to have protected the hull well up until this point! As far as I know, it's never had overplating & the thinnest points are only 2mm thinner than what it was built with (most only being 1mm)... which is really not bad for a 60 year life! Very interesting to know thank you- I was wondering how they get around this in giant sea vessels! The bits of the floor that I've seen have been covered in a thick layer of black grease & the rate of corrosion has been very low for 60 years which is leading me to wonder whether BW were following the procedures used in sea vessels? Would anyone have any idea of whether BW used the marine grade? or any way for me to figure it out? (Even if it turns out to be the case- I'm still gonna remove the wet concrete- but may be helpful if I discover dry sections further down)

As I've stated multiple times, the proof is with the documents that the broker has & in the CRT files that Alec has linked. I don't have access to those documents & probably won't for at least a few days, so would appreciate if we can stop going round & round about it. If you want to know sooner, feel free to check the archive. Thank you for sharing- very helpful to hear from people involved in the industry!

Very interesting to see how much the bow shape ranges- thanks for sharing

Thank u for the heads up about Braunston- have been keeping my wits about me, despite them making it clear that they're concerned about the concrete & want it sorted for properly, as I would with anyone primarily out to make money but it's good to know that I'm not being overcautious! I will definitely be using my own surveyor that's not affiliated with them

Except, I'm not disagreeing with you? All I've asked for is to hear from people with the opposite opinion & experience, so I can make an informed decision for myself. Not saying either is right or wrong, simply trying to gather info Is that ok? Or am I meant to just form my opinion from you & only you? It's really unhelpful & unwelcoming as someone new to all of this to have people put words in my mouth & act like I'm advocating for it when I'm simply asking? It's not exactly like I can go to a library & find this info out, it's largely done through word of mouth, so I don't think it's really fair to be judging someone whos simply sharing what they've been told & hasn't found enough info to form an opinion despite searching. It's very off-putting & really not a way to welcome newcomers if this is a tradition you want to stay around. I can't be 100% sure, but from the photos I've received today, it would seem that the concrete is poured in steel sections, which may mean that they are removable as this was how a few other BW inspection boats were made & No I won't be sharing their info in respect of their privacy.

Hi all, hoping some of you may be able to advise me on what problems I could potentially be taking on with a narrowboat project I'm considering. Anyone who's had experience either removing a poured concrete hull, or maintaining one, I'd really appreciate your advice! The boat is a 1960s Icebreaker that was converted to be a inspection boat for British Water & seems to have been built with poured concrete originally. It needs a lot of work in various ways, all of which so far I'm prepared for but trying to work out if this is a deal breaker, or I'm if I'm able to work around it. On my last viewing, I found a section of poured concrete, with a few centimeters of water sat on the top. The steel beams didn't look very corroded thankfully, and everything seemed to be covered in a thick amount of bitumen. The brokers have since managed to pull up some floor boards in the middle of the boat, which apparently don't have any poured concrete underneath, so seems like it may be in sections? The boards that I pulled up with the water are under an already established leak in the roof, so it seems that it could be a more isolated problem. From what I understand, I need to remove the section that has water sat on top & replace it. does anyone have a ballpark figure of what that might cost me? How best am I to proceed in regards to there being more on the rest of the boat? I'm glad it's not everywhere, but my current feelings are that I'd need the floor to be removed so the ballast & any damage is visible for the survey so I can adjust my offer, or I'd need them to knock off enough money for the worst case scenario that the rest of it is compromised concrete that needs to be removed. They're very accommodating but not sure what the normal procedure is in these situations. What would u do? If I was to find that there are other concrete sections further down the boat- should I remove it no matter the condition? Or only if it's compromised? If so, how do I tell? & How am I best to maintain it if it's not compromised? I've seen reference to people using more concrete to fill in gaps & epoxy to waterproof? Apologies for all the questions, this topic just seems to be a bit of a minefield of strong opinions with not a lot of explanation of the why so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you so much for this really detailed & helpful response @agg221, it's very helpful to know what steps to take if I do go ahead. I really appreciate you not just telling me that the hull survey will be fine (as it was done with ultrasonic inspection) but fully explaining the why behind it! it's nice to know the actual science behind why they're still accurate readings Am I right in thinking then that, no matter what, the concrete needs to be removed? even if I was to manage to get the floor up & it was still sealed at the sides, no cracks, with water only in that spot (it was by the bathroom so could be localized?). There's no chance of it being ok enough to be dried out & re-sealed in some way? In regards to going back to the broker to book a survey- would u recommend that I book it with the boat as it is & negotiate a big enough price reduction to account for the worst case scenario or could I ask for the floor to be removed before the survey & then base my price on what it finds? If you would be happy to pass on the details of the surveyors you mentioned that give timescales as well as work to be done that would be super super helpful- as ideally i would like to get the boat up north to work on it properly & the winter stoppages are another concern! The broker images do not do the boat justice at all to be honest. But, I believe the records@Francis Herne has helpfully shared are the ones that the broker has showed me, which refer to it having icebreaker qualities & it being built to a higher hull thickness. Both people were historic boat owners themselves, one of which has worked on many in their boatyard. If you search the forum here for posts on poured concrete ballasts, there are others with old inspection boats who still have a poured concrete ballast that's been fine with maintenance. I'm not worried about the steel being compromised, as the recent hull survey indicates a very small amount of corrosion over its 60 year life. So clearly, the concrete has protected it to some degree & the water is recent. What I'm worried about, is whether the concrete is now compromised & speeding up that rate of corrosion.

If I remember correctly from the documents, it was stationed on the Leeds & Liverpool at some point during the 60s-80s when it was an inspection boat, but the letters seem to reference it being somewhere else previously. The letters confirm the living accommodation was added when it was converted to an inspection boat in 1962/3, before that it was just an icebreaker.