steamraiser2

If you decide to go for a repair drop me a pm. We have a pile of them in the warehouse. Unlikely that we will ever use them

I used to look after a six cylinder one in a locomotive. Reckon it's around 1956/7. Yours is possibly a compressor motor . Seen them in gas plants too

If I were you I wouldn't wait to modify the calorifier feed and the flow piping to the skin tank. You run the risk of cooking your engine as it is

The pump conversion is neat and compact and takes no more space that the original. As it happens we are test running a restored engine with the prototype kit on it over the next few days. It will appear on our website and Youtube in due course. Once we have fine tuned the design and got batch pricing calculated we will be offering them as a kit on our website. It is part of the Samofa support package we are developing as I mentioned in an earlier post. I reckon it will take the rest of this year to get the bits designed and produced but we hope to be up and running both in the UK and Holland with the parts by next spring A pity that your skin tank is buried and not easy to check. I suspect that is your issue..other than the s***e pump of course?

Your calorifier supply line should always be of smaller bore than the piping to the skin tank by a significant margin. We sometimes fit a reducer in the line to act as an orifice plate to achieve this . Usually easier when we are plumbing up the engine to select the piping to provide for this. However, you have a reciprocating pump of poor design. By throttling the piping to ensure adequate flow to the skin tank you will increase the back pressure and the risk of a pump leak. Catch 22. It is one of the reasons we have developed the Jabsco conversion for these engines. Greater output,no back pressue issue, maximised circulation ,and most of all, no leaks. As you say the skin tank return is 'orrid. Connect the calorifier via a flow tee upstream of the skin tank so that turbulence is minimised and then you can have a single pipe feed into the tank. You can determine if your skin tank is properly baffled with the aid of an infra red digital thermometer. With the circuit fully warmed up the thermometer should be able to detect the flow of the coolant through the tank as it travels up and down as directed by the baffles. A well built skin tank should show hot at the inlet and a steady reduction until far cooler water exits the tank outlet. A non baffled tank will probably stratify like warm and cold currents do in the sea. This will be visible using the infra red tool and is a sure sign of poor tank performance. All this is relevant not just for the Samofa but for all displacement pumped motors, Lister JP , Gardner L2 etc. Set up properly you will never have an issue. Best find out before heading out on the Severn , Trent or Thames though.

Finally got round to checking out the marine ram pump on one of our Samofa 2S-108s. It runs at camshaft speed and, assuming a cruising engine speed of 1000 rpm, it can move about 5 gallons a minute not allowing for the inevitable losses in this type of pump. So not a large volume of water. Samofas as built seemed not to have had thermostats and run quite happily with the simple fan and large radiator they usually have in industrial use. Raw water cooled marine engines seem to be ok too. Narrowboat installations require a different approach however. It is pretty usual to run with a calorifier these days and this normally involves fitting a thermostat. Samofas run happily at up to 72c and this is the temperature of the stats we fit. We do find that the stat needs a 4mm weep hole and that eliminates the system having too much back pressure before the thermostat opens. Any appreciable back pressure will cause the pump to leak to some degree or other. That irritating habit aside the system will work without complaint. The 2S-108 can produce a nominal 20 to 30 hp depending on engine top speed of 1000 or 1500 rpm. We would specify a baffled skin tank of between 8.5 and 10 sq ft in this instance.

We did one some years ago that was from a sea going boat and the spaces were very concreted. I had to chisel it out. When I did I found that the bottom land of the water jacket was rotted away and only the concretion had made it watertight. Another one bites the dust! ? Maybe a handle in the warehouse. If I find one I'll drop him a PM

75 to 80 degrees are right for a JP so nothing to worry about there. That is the temperature (75c) of the thermostats we fit in every JP we restore. It certainly sounds like you need to have the engine and skin tank properly flushed out. A lot of the engines we restore are found to have a large build up of sediment around the liners upon strip down. Not unusual to find virtual concretion two or three inches deep in the water spaces, especially if the engine has ever been raw water cooled. Taking the block drain valve out and poking around in the water space can indicate how bad it is. A peer round with an endoscope is better. All that said I would want to take a good look at the water pump too. They are not the most reliable of pumps in their old age and some of your symptoms could be down to minimal pump output. Good to know that the head is not cracked

No, I've never taken much notice of them, unless they are leaking of course. I'll have a look at our tech data when I get a minute or go and measure the one on an engine in our warehouse. As I said in an earlier post we are going to fit all the ones we marinise with Jabsco pumps. Look better than the head mounted centrifugal pumps and less prone to leakage than the marine displacement type.

One of our favourite engines ?, we have four of them at the moment with one just about to have its first run following a bare block restoration. Interest in them is growing particularly as they clearly have a Gardner connection which is obvious when you take them apart. Very popular in Holland in the same way that 2LWs are in the UK. We are in the throes of manufacturing all the overhaul parts for the 1S-108 and 2S-108 variants, liners , main bearings and gaskets etc on top of the wear parts we already do. The plan is to be able to offer overhaul kits for them. We are just completing the pre-production water pump drive unit to enable us to fit Jabsco pumps to the converted industrial variants we marinise.

Of course Lister had a change of heart over this and did away with the changeover valves entirely when the JPs were revamped into the JK engines .No change over valves at all. Back in the day, when Lister still did factory training courses, I remember being told that three quarters load at three quarters engine speed was the ideal set up. My company had dozens of them many of them on continuous duty on quarry water pumps. High compression all the time. Leaking changeover valves were always replaced with JK style plugs. I can't imagine that many canal use engines ever get to truly work hard. We recently supplied a JK to a guy for duty on a salvage barge running a large pump. He told me that the old JK ran for weeks at a time under full load and had done that for fifteen years before dying of fair wear and tear. Clearly the lack of changeover valves did no harm there.

Your engine will have seized due to the corrosion caused by being immersed in the water. Even if you manage to free it up you can pretty much guarantee that it will sustain a lot of damage if you don't dismantle and clean all the parts thoroughly. I've seen some horrendous damage caused by rust and water when an engine has been freed up but not stripped and cleaned. I would strongly recommend that you cut your losses and remove the engine and gearbox for inspection and repair. It is not possible to eliminate water damage and corrosion without properly stripping your engine. Tears before bedtime if you don't?

Sorry but that is way too much end float. Needs a closer inspection for sure

CE marine cranks are different to the industrial ones and not interchangeable. Maintain your engine properly and you are unlikely to have a problem. It should not put you off having one in a boat, they are great little engines, different and one of the best sounding twins around. CEs are around so it is always worth keeping your eye out for one as a spares source.

The Lister CE is a less common engine in narrow boats as it was generally overlooked in favour of its larger cousin the JP. We have a couple of them here in the queue for restoration. A lot of internal similarities with the JP although few transferable parts. Both wet and dry sump marine versions were available. Like the JP range they don't take kindly to be over revved, especially when bearings are becoming worn and will, like a JP, break the very angular crankshaft. Some have reciprocating water pumps which are prone to leak . They are a smaller engine than the JP but very capable and very reliable if well maintained. Pretty too. Sound good as well It should be fine in a well propped 60' boat.

Samofas are Dutch and very proud of them they are too. The company was a joint project thing from several manufacturers set up after WW2 to fill a gap in the war torn domestic market. They poached the best ideas of what they were familiar with; Gardner, Lister , MWM , Deutz etc and came up with a simple but robust range of single cylinder and twin cylinder engines. They were used a lot on drainage pumps and soon evolved into marine diesels. Not only did they copy British and German ideas but bought in components and fitted them. Eventually they were taken over by Mitsubushi and closed down. Still quite a few around in Holland and Belgium. Very heavy and pretty bombproof. Out lasted generally by the Lister JPs they were meant to replace but held with great affection over there. Marmite engines though. You either love them or hate them. A clapped out one is a thing of pity for sure.

Vintage engines for narrowboats are subject to market forces and fashion the same as any other commodity. The engines that are generally "on trend" most of the time are Gardner 2LWs closely followed by the Gardner 3LW. We sell more 3LWs than 2s partly because there are a few more 3s than 2s ( not that there are many of either now) but there is little cost difference in the buy in cost of stock engines or the retail value of a restored item. You pays your money and makes your choice. Due to the exhaustion of stocks of engines for restoration ( we have pretty much cleared South Africa, Australia and Hong Kong and I'm getting too old for sneaking onto to unattended sampans with a bag of spanners ) The other engine type that consistently features is the Lister JP2 and variants of. These are of similar value to the Gardner engines but tend to be the second choice vintage engine. An engine snobbery thing? Both marques are great engines with pretty good spares availability for both types. After market parts supply for JP type Listers is well established and we can supply virtually everything for them. Not everything is available off the shelf overnight but parts supply is generally pretty good if you know where to go. Beware of poor quality knock off parts though, there is a lot of them out there. Gardners have been fortunate in that the bus trade made spare parts commonplace. As that has pretty much stopped the available parts are showing signs of drying up. We are investing heavily in some of the harder to find stuff and expect that to be a larger part of the business in future years. So in essence I don't think that either the Gardners LWs or Lister JP/JS/JKs will fade away and will continue to be sought after for many years yet. Adding value to your boat? Maybe a little but no where near what people think. Market forces will continue to dictate that a properly restored JP2 , depending on the spec, will be in the region of £12-14k ex works while a 2LW will currently set you back £14 -18k. The £25k 2LW is not that far away believe me. Demand and the rising price of core engines are the drivers for this. Kelvins and the like are pretty stable in value as they are a niche thing and not everyone wants one. If you covet one you will pay a price, if you don't you won't. A lot of our business is with the Netherlands. Their sought after engines are the Kromhout built Gardners and the LS / GS / TS variants. The Lister JP/JK/JS variants but generally the 3 cylinder ones and the Samofa twins. They have no interest at all in Gardner 2LWs. When it comes to vintage engines in boats the Dutch are the boys. Large numbers of boats have vintage engines compared to the UK . Long may it continue! Taking MtB's point it is a simple fact that there are a lot of "restored" , "good condition", and "well maintained" second hand engines out there. If you don't know the engine in question well don't pay a premium for it and keep your expectations low. We currently have an engine in the workshops sent in by an experienced boater who bought a "reconditioned" engine on the open market. On checking it over we have found, so far, two odd and mis-machined pistons, the big ends worn so badly that they are running on the backers, odd con rods, fuel gear fuel of rusty water, and the wrong pinion on the starter motor, but my did it look pretty! You have a vintage engine because you want one, it's a man cave thing. It won't add value unless the prospective buyer of your boat is in the man cave market too. Five years from now... Still Gardners and Lister JPs..... new kids on the block? Samofa 2S-108s, why... they have lots of Gardner parts inside

It is really a matter of personal preference. If you are using conventional controls it is probably fine as it is. If the intent is to use Morse controls I would go for the soft shift conversion. Either way the PRM500 is a really good gearbox. Overkill for a 2LW though unless the output ratio was not available in the PRM260 range

Lo and behold but the suspicious 2LW is back on eBay again complete with the dodgy purchase arrangements ! People bidding too. One born every minute.

Slightly off topic but Banbury , Castle Quay. A while back I was coming down the town lock by the service point when I noticed a brand new floating gin palace tied up at the water point. A VERY angry elderly gentleman was ranting about the new boat as the owners had conveniently ignored the fact that the old chap was waiting to fill with water etc and had gone into Castle Quays. He was in a fury. He appeared from his own boat with a couple of full toilet cassettes which he emptied all over the moored offender much to the astonishment of various onlookers. He then returned to his boat and took the lock as I came out still with steam coming out of his ears! Just as well that they hadn't left any windows open.

There is no reason why the Pelapone could not be marinised and installed in a narrow boat. Expect to spend around £3k on the gearbox and adaptors and a further £1k on mounting steels, temperature control, alternator and water pump stuff. No different than any of the ex truck / bus / crane / locomotive engines we convert as our daily business. Maintaining it in the longer term is not impossible but tracking down another as a donor would be prudent. No different to owning a Glennifer

Nope, says removed item no longer available

That's interesting. Less than 25 minutes after spotting the 2LW and posting here the engine is no longer available. The scroat follows this site me thinks !

I see that the same 2LW is back on eBay again. Claims to be in Wales this time rather than Aberdeen. No doubt people will fall for the apparent scam again. The "vendor" has even used the same photograph!

I had a Dickinson Pacific oil fired ships stove in my boat. Although it ran quite happily on red diesel it could not reach the same high temperatures achieved when running on kerosene. To come close on diesel it had to be turned right up which usually resulted in black smoke at the chimney. Servicing intervals were also reduced, when running on diesel, due to rapid soot build up. It never performed anywhere near as well as the distributor suggested it would even though it was installed exactly as the manufacturer laid down. All in all a disappointment compared to a solid fuel stove. I wouldn't want to down play how unpleasantly hot it can be in the boat during the summer months and how slow to warm up for cooking it could be. For me a Squirrel stove and a gas cooker wins hands down.