steamraiser2

Our JP1 was from a small launch. Ideal for the exhibition trailer but way underpowered for anything but the smallest of narrow boats. It certainly attracted attention at shows?

We did a JP1 with a Velvet Drive gearbox in a mock up engine room for the shows a few years back. Sounded great for the first hour or two on tickover. After that it became the engine version of Chinese water torture. Plonk plonk plonk plonk plonk plonk plonk....,...?

£350 ish

Well the JP3M is a very sad looking thing and the asking price,without the gearbox, is easily double the market price for a complete dead engine. I'm busy breaking a JK4 at the moment that is in way better order than that and it didn't cost anything like as much. Best of luck at that price !

We do quite a few Dorman LBs. The spares situation is not brilliant but not impossible either. The good thing is that you will seldom need anything other than service parts as they are an incredibly robust engine. One of ours has been in a hotel boat dragging a butty for ten years without missing a beat 10000 hrs and rising. I keep one in our warehouse just for me. If I ever get time to build another boat it'll go in it. A seriously under rated engine. Sound terrific too.The Chinese do make a clone LB, Not CE compliant though and has their own fuel equipment on it which is pretty much unserviceable in the UK

Who said anything about pushing the spring? The speeder pulls the rack open under tension when the throttle is opened and is over come by the governor rod pushing in the other direction at max speed. Therefore the assembly works in both directions ,pulled open by the spring, and pushed shut by the governor. Both acting on the bell crank. Properly adjusted the speeder spring is always under some tension.

Simple really, the proper variable speed throttle arrangement typically fitted to JPMs has the high and low idle set by stops on the on engine throttle handle. If you only connect to the bell crank and have no stops it is easy to hold the throttle above the intended max rpm.

There is no need for a spring fitted to the pump rack. I suggest you remove it.The rack and connected linkage should be very free to move. If it feels notchy check the bearings in the bell crank. They tend to get rusty over the years. They are very cheap to buy. The spring on the end of the governor rod that acts against the bell crank is meant to be there. Check that there is a gap of around 3mm between the end of the rod and the bell crank stop bolt. The little gap and spring enable a little movement before the rod pushes the bell crank and closes the pump. This also helps the level running so is worth checking out. Would I be right in presuming that the speeder spring is connected to a throttle rod? If it is you should really get a longer rod rather than put a key ring into it. Lister designed the variable speed JPs to have a rodded throttle as it pushes as well as pulls. It will not push as intended with a key ring in it. Over the years I have seen a lot of JPs hooked up to Morse controls. The ones with the cables connected to a Lister throttle unit work satisfactorily the ones directly onto the speeder spring or, worse still,onto the bell crank act against the intended operation of the speed control arrangement. Avoid this arrangement if at all possible. Any installation that prevents the throttle self regulating and works against the governor could lead to over speeding and may end up causing crank failure to which JPs are prone.

I note that you say "serviced". Sadly that is where things are not as they once were. In my experience "serviced" and "re-conditioned" are poles apart. "Serviced" can often mean a clean and testing on a pop tester , with adjustment as required for the injector and a run on a Hartridge machine for the pump. A check and adjustment of the phasing and general calibration and that is it. £350 please, thank you very much. To overhaul the pump is a straight forward process, elements at an average of £30 a go, typically a pump cam shaft is about £100 (if you can find one) delivery valves are about £15 each. Add to that a set of bearings and seals/gaskets and it is easy to see that a "re-conditioned" pump should set you back about £500. With many of the old school fuel guys retiring, and the younger ones not having a clue unless it plugs into a laptop ,old fashioned fuel injection specialists are an endangered breed. Thankfully we do our own having been dismayed at the poor quality and overpricing that is out there. Don't get me wrong there are still some experts out there but they are thin on the ground. As most of you know we are based in the West Country. There is a good guy in Cornwall, we do our own in Dorset and there is a chap in Berkshire. Other than that we don't know of anyone left that can provide a service that is up to a good standard. So as I keep saying, just be sure to check everything else before blaming the fuel pump and injectors. Don't go there unless you have to.

The injector pump on a JP is a primitive beast at best. Problems with it,and the injectors, usually display in a different manner than a hunting engine. A defect in the delivery of fuel such as a leaking element would cause a constant fault not a transitional one. This is why I would check and service the pump linkage and speeder spring first. The other thing,which I forgot to mention earlier, is to check the condition of the little ball bearings in the bell crank itself. They often sieze or break up which affects the operation of the linkage. These are all the cheap options ? If careful attention to these areas doesn't cure it the road to serious expenditure awaits. Getting fuel pumps and injectors reconditioned is an expensive business especially as it's a dying skill set these days. I strongly advise ensuring that everything else is correct first before dashing to the pump shop.

Before you start spending money on getting your fuel gear serviced (and I don't think it is that for a moment) examine the speeder spring at the end of the bell crank that the injector pump is connected to. The use of the correct spring at the right tension is paramount in getting a JP to run smoothly. If you have the wrong spring, or the throttle linkage has been connected without a spring, the engine will hunt, stall and generally act up. We often see JPs with the wrong spring or no spring. It is important to have the right spring, any old spring won't do. Marine Power Services have them on the shelf and you can get them from the online shop. Fit a new one , lubricate all the pump linkage, making sure that the governor rod that acts on the bell crank moves freely ,and not forgetting to fill the oil reservoir in the pump. Ensure that you have a cold start cam on the other end of your injector pump. (This allows excess fuel for cold starting and prevents over fuelling during normal running). Adjust your throttle linkage to put a little tension on the spring. In operation the throttle pulls against the spring to operate the pump rack but is easily overcome by the governor rod acting against it. While running the governor and throttle spring will settle to an equilibrium and your engine will run steadily unless you try to over speed it. Tick over and fast idle is usually set on the on engine throttle on JP (M) engines. If you have an industrial engine you are unlikely to have it and should make provision for adjustment without compromising the operation of the throttle spring. Properly set up JPs are a robust and smooth running engine. Take a look at the videos on the MPS website to see how smooth they should be ?

Are you sure that the stink is oil? If your injector pump is shot and passing diesel it could also cause a smelly fug. If diesel eventually makes its way into the crankcase it could also cause fumes. As I said TLC. How many hours has the engine done?

I suspect that the hole is for a locating dowel or a casing bolt.. Without it in place I would expect a little oil loss but not fumes. Change your crankcase filter, check that the oil level is not too high. If either is overfull or blocked it could potentially result in fumes.It is not usual for a Gardner to be blowing out of the crankcase. Normally I would expect an "oily" Gardner to show at the exhaust not at the crankcase. Check these first. After determining that these are in order, should the fumes persist, I would suggest that your engine is in need of some serious TLC. Even Gardners die in the end. Just one final thought.......................... you don't have four pence a gallon recycled snot oil from Wilco or summat similar in it do you?

JPs often leak around just about all the studs in the head. Bearing in mind that they were drilled and tapped manually it's not unusual. We put sealant on ours as a matter of course.? Nothing to worry about

Narrow boats tend to idle for far too long and are often lightly loaded. Running on SAE 30 helps with oil pressure at very low rpm and isn't an issue with electric start engines. It's a common "upgrade" if you could call it that.

Yes you can, I usually use a prybar behind the flywheel. hopefully you will barely detect any movement. Your oil pump is fine which is good to hear.

What you have described is pretty typical of a Lister showing some wear in the bottom end or a tired oil pump. The old adage of "if it shows some oil pressure leave it alone" certainly applies to older Lister types but I would not include the HR2s in that category. There is a general , non scientific, way of seeing if your crank is showing signs of wear. Check the end float by trying to move the crank along its axis a little. If it moves backwards and forwards more than 10 thou or so the thrust face is likely to be worn. If that is indicated it is a pretty safe bet that the main bearings are showing their age too. As a rule of thumb it is a pretty good indicator of the likelihood of main bearing wear as Lister bottom ends tend to wear the mains out before the thrust faces. Served me well for fifty years. How long does your oil pressure take to come up when first started.?If it is taking less than 10 to 15 seconds it is unlikely to be the pump, much more than that and I would be considering a change. That said I don't think that you have anything much to worry about at the moment. Keep an eye on it for any deterioration and get some load on it to lessen the blue smoke. Keep using the SAE 30 if I were you. Enjoy!?

With a JP it really depends on if you hand start it or not. We supply our engines initially filled with SAE30 ( API SD/CC) oil. Generally this is fine for all of the electric start JPs we do. However, hand swinging a JP in cold weather is a different thing entirely. If I were you are I would run it on SAE20 if you do hand start it fairly often. If you expect to hand start it in the coldest of winter weather the use of an SAE 10 oil can make the difference between success and failure. Back in the day it was normal to run on 10 weight oil from October to April on the old JPs on a whole range of plant I used to maintain. Back then oil technology was very different and engine oil was far gloopier than now. ( Gloopy: 1960s term for oils reluctant to pour in cold conditions, similarly referred to as p*** in plus 70F conditions ?)

Your oil pressure should be in the 30/45 psi range. I would investigate why yours is so low as a matter of urgency if I were you. Check your filter,if you have one, and the oil pressure relief valve.

And then there was the guy who had leaky o rings and listened to " man on the canal" who advised cracking an egg into the header tank, which he did every day. Death by omelette ?

Only half a ton ? ?

The Lister JP / JS / JK range of engines were built to tight tolerances for their day and remain a reliable and robust engine. We restore a lot of them and have dealt with many that have never been overhauled before. To last up to 80 years without major surgery is a fine record indeed. If you find that you need new parts fit quality stuff and avoid the dross that is out there in such large quantities these days. As to reusing your liners, the chances of that will depend on the level of corrosion as much as bore wear. JP blocks rot immediately above the point where the O rings sit which can be a challenge when reassembling them. If your engine has never seen sea water it should be fine, if it has good luck to you. We often have to reblock sea damaged engines. Our liner puller can exert 60 tons of force and we have topped it out many times. Again this is dependant on the level of corrosion at the bottom of the block.If they come out very easily I would be very suspicious that they are low quality aftermarket parts. Some of the pattern parts available are slightly undersize at the bottom where the O rings sit. Lister did both chromed and plain liners the chrome ones being commonest. On inspecting yours if the chrome is worn or rusted through the liner is scrap. A wear lip means scrap. As I said built to tight tolerances. Don't use sealant on the O rings ,a little swarfega or washing up liquid will help a lot. Pop the liner into the block and tap it home with a dense block of hardwood. I use a piece of greenheart as broad as a railway sleeper about a foot long. One firm thump with the block,no hammer, and it's always home. Make sure you set the bumping clearance correctly and avoid the over thick knock off head gaskets out there. Check out the various JPs on the Marine Power Services video pages and if your engine isn't running as cleanly as those something isn't right.

The reality is that 8 out 10 customers go for a modern box. Most chuck away the ram pump too. Vintage engine without the hassle is the usual reason although some cite their wife's preference for a lightweight gear change. What I don't get is the virtual conversion of a JPM to match one of our industrial modifications. The industrial conversions are usually cheaper and none of them have ever seen the sea......you pays your money and makes your choice of course.

We only have complete gearboxes here. Most of our customers ditch them in favour of our PRM conversion. I'll have a look but don't think that there are breakers there just entire boxes.