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Big COL

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  1. John I did say ideally, this obviously needs to be thought about at planning stage, the majority of builders now like to have waste tanks across the boat as the trim only alters marginally between full and empty as opposed to having the tank on either side, because the size of the tanks are getting larger and larger and if positioned on the side causes listing. A 100 gallon tank is equivalent to 1/2 a metric ton which equates to a lot of mobile ballast. On my boat the tank is positioned across the boat with connections for pump out and vent on both sides of the tank, this then allowed me to have a pumpout point on both sides and eliminates the need of dragging pumpout hoses over the roof of the boat. This is my personal preference as it's not the best of situations when they retrieve the hose and leave a trail of waste across the roof. On the subject of aerobic and anaerobic organisms this is not the place to discuss the advantages/disadvantages, but very briefly you are obviously well aware of the advantage of having anaerobic organisms in the cleaning up of effluent, they do a magnificent job, but the down side is the odour they create in doing so, therefore not suitable for a boat waste tank, which is why the more oxygen that can be let in through the vents prolongs the tank from going anaerobic, but you know all this and I think your tugging my leg to see if I do. As to the position of the vent, I have always assumed that the lower the vent the more chance the smell has to dissipate before it's at nose level. I cannot see any other logical reason other than this. All the best Colin
  2. Stuart The vent pipe should be equal in size to the pump out pipe, usually 38mm I/D. This is to try and avoid the tank contents from going anaerobic and creating too many offending smells. Idealy the vent should be positioned under gunnel level, I would not recommend bringing a vent up to roof level as you will have a face full of obnoxious fumes when steering. The ideal set up is to have a pumpout fitting on both gunnels and a vent on both hull sides.See Lee Sanitation for a full explanation. Lee Sanitation
  3. Hi Richard Just a little piece of info, that may be of help to you and others. If you find that you have a problem with lamps blowing due to excessive voltage you might find the following helpful. My friend had this problem with his 24volt lighting system, he found that his lamps were only lasting a very short time, due to the fact that his domestic voltage was running at 27volts, which is normal on a new boat with new batteries and connected to a land line through a multi inverter. Originally he was told that he would have to suffer this until his batteries became less efficient. However he discovered that some manufacturers produce lamps for a 27volt supply especially for this reason as they were aware that a problem existed with caravans and boats. I think for 12volts they are rated at 13.5 volts. He changed all his bulbs and the problem was cured. Colin
  4. Tonymac The stop, on many Thornycroft engines especially the early ones, is by a pull to stop cable. As you don't say which type of stop the engine is fitted with, if it is a cable type check that the arm on the injector pump is fully returning to the start position when the cable has been pushed back after stopping. If it's an electrical stop then follow the checks that John has suggested.
  5. Tonymac If you have diesel at the injector pump, and the engine still will not start, slacken off the connections at two of the injectors on the engine, and turn the engine over with the starter untill diesel appears, retighten conections and the engine should run. Colin
  6. Tonymac Some Thornycroft engies are fitted with an electric diesel pump, this is what I suspect is what you can hear clicking. You don't say what model engine it is. On my last boat, which had a Thornycroft 80D engine, the pump looked like a round cylinder about 1.5'' Dia and about 7''long. in the top of the pump there is a washable filter which is possibly clogged and therefore not supplying diesel to the injector pump. To check this unscrew the pipe that goes from the pump to the injectors at the pump end and switch on the ignition to start the pump and see if it's delivering diesel. If not the problem is in the pump, ie the filter is clogged, or the problem is prior to the pump,check for any loose conections on the fuel line back from the pump to the tank. If there are any loose conections then the pump will suck in air through these and will not pump any diesel. If on the other hand there is diesel at the pump then reconnect the pump and bleed the system at the injector pump. To do this open the bleed screw on the injector pump and turn on the ignition until diesel appears through the bleed screw, when it does turn off the ignition, retighten the bleed screw, the engine should then start, hope this helps. Colin
  7. Richard If its a horisontal tank some have one coil above the other. colin
  8. Richard I have the fitting instructions for c-warm with me, and the connections are described as follows. As you look at the tank with the immersion looking at you, same as picture on the web site. 1- connection (A) this connection is at the very top of the tank and is = hot water outlet 2- connection( this connection is bottom right of the tank and is= cold water inlet 3- connection (C ) this connection is top right of the tank and is = relief valve 4-connection (D1) this connection is two thirds up the tank on the left and is = coil inlet. 5-connection(D2) this connection is below (D1) on the left and is =coil outlet 6-connection(E1) this connection is two thirds up the tank on the right and is coil inlet 7-connection(E2) this connection is below (E1) on the right and is coil outlet 8- connection (F) is the immersion heater D1/D2 is one coil and E1/E2 is the other coil. As far as I can see both coils are equal size as it states. The coils of c-warm heater are completely independent in operation. the water storage heater will work satisfactorily with either coil alone or with both coils together in use. Hope this helps any more info required I am only to happy to help Colin
  9. Well done, John you have raised a very valid point here and you are absolutely right, but another point to consider is what happens after you have made a stage payment? Because effectively you now own a percentage of the boat, which increases with each stage payment, should you insure this yourself or rely entirely on the boatfitter's insurance? If so would an insurer pay you out if your boat was destroyed due to negligence on the part of the boatfitter. The same applies if the boatfitter goes into liquidation, and you have a half completed boat that you have paid for in stage payments. I may be wrong but I think the boat remains an asset of the company and you join the list of creditors. Therefore should you not insure for this also? When I took delivery of my sailaway it went into my friend's boatyard. I then insured it for the final estimated cost but I am almost certain that you can be penalised for over insuring. My insurers were made aware of the situation that the boat's value would be increasing almost weekly and were ok with this. As I am no expert in this field, perhaps someone who is could enlighten us. I seem to remember from Oliver's web site that she did some research into this with her contracts. Perhaps she might know. Please don't label me a profit of doom and gloom, it's your hard earned cash that I am trying to help protect, a few hundred pounds at the onset could save you thousands in the end. Thankfully I am through all this now and can enjoy the pleasures of boating, still best of luck to you all who are enduring the build - it's worth it in the long run.
  10. This is not recommended, but most of us will have done it by accident, when running aground and the boat has risen onto the mud at the bow but only half way across the base plate. Have a look at the line of the roof down its length it's surprising just how much flex there is in it.
  11. This is my last post on this subject as I have no intention of entering into a slanging match over this as it is too serious in the aspect of safety to allow it to become protracted. As a qualifed engineer that you are, and knowing the hard work that was required to become one I would have thought that you would have shown some respect to your fellow engineers,a boat inspector to my knowledge and experience is far from some one who has read the book and completed a two week course on each subject. I have found them to be extremely knowledgable and practical, I should imagine that they will take a dim view at your perception as to how they acquired their considerable knowlege base. As a qualified Electrical/Mechanical engineer who in 42 years working experience has covered many Boiler,Pneumatic,Hydraulic,Gas,and Water, installations, and although being at director level, I am still totally hands on, (by choice) I feel I have gained enough experience to have a valid opinion on this subject. If you had witnessed some of the horrific D.I.Y jobs not just on boats that I have you also might have a change of heart. As you are well aware,but for the benefit of those who are not, you do not have to be CORGI registered to do any gas installation on your own boat it just has to be inspected and passed on completion,by a CORGI qualified surveyor unfortunately there are some, that forego this inspection and it is these few who cause the problems for the rest of us, of course there are plenty of very competent D.I.Y. who make a very professional job of their work, but as with all things in life it's the rest of us who have to be protected from the idiots.This was one of the reasons CORGI was originally started to have safe standards and get rid of the cowboys. If you consider this to be hysteria then so be it,but you can still show your fellow engineers the respect they're entitled to.
  12. Can I just qualify what you refer to as bored out fittings. A gas bulked fitting is specifically designed for that purpose, it allows the pipe to pass through unbroken and has a compression olive and nut on both ends, so when the installation of the pipe is complete, they are then tightened to prevent any chafing on the pipe. Stan said he hates these bulkhead fittings - two more joints than are needed. I am almost certain Stan that you are refering to a normal gas bulked fitting but because there are compression nuts on both sides you think it's being used as a straight connector. I canot imagine any surveyor passing any gas installation with a joint through a bulkhead. If that is the case I'm glad it's not on my boat and would advise that you get some clarification if this is permissable, bearing in mind that the inside part of the bulkhead fitting is usually buried in the insulation and is difficult to reach.
  13. Simon The easiest way is to wet sandblast but this can be very messy, if you have a look on google there are various eco friendly paint strippers,just how effective they are I cannot say. The only other option is a 4'' angle grinder with a flapper disc or a heavy duty orbital sander with a coarse disc, this will be dusty and require quite a few discs,the one small advantage this has is that as you dislodge the old sand it partly becomes an abrasing agent under the disc but it also wears the disc. I suppose if you were very careful and worked quickly you could try an electric hot air gun but with care! best of luck
  14. On the old forum Oliver requested for any information on fin rads. Having just completed our new 70' trad on which I designed, specified and installed all the electrical and plumbing requirements I am only too pleased to pass on any information that may be helpful. My first encounter with fin rads was on our first boat which was a 47' Colecraft build and Colecraft fitout, the heating consisted of a single pipe fin rad system coupled to an aldi boiler and was very efficient on that length of boat. We had this boat stretched by 13' and an extensive refit was undertaken. At the same time the aldi was removed and replaced with a diesel stove with backboiler and a pump added, along with alterations to the calorifer to automatically control the water tempreature. This was necessary as you cannot control the heat source on the type of oil fired stove that is normally used on narrowboats. On commissioning the new system it immediately became apparent that there was a problem, with the stove running the lounge would be at a comfortable temperature but the flow out of the boiler was only just warm. The stove had a 5kw rating - 3kw to space and 2kw to water. Although the pump was controlled by a pipe stat that woudn't start the pump until the boiler had heated the water to the required tempreature, when it did start it moved the water through the system so fast that there was no time for any heat pick up as it passed through the boiler. To overcome this I slowed the pump using a variable resistor and eventually managed to balance the system so it was working satisfactorally. As all this was taking place I had ordered a 70' sailaway from Colecraft as a liveboard. I had some serious reservations on the heating system that I was intending to use, I was intending to copy the system from our old boat but this had thrown up a few questions as to the suitabilty of this for a liveaboard, mainly the availability of hot water on tap without the need to run the engine, or having to light a stove just for this purpose. A rethink was required and the only alternative was an independant bolier that was controllable for both hot water and heating. This didn't leave much choice as the erberspacher and others of similar design were at the time getting a considerable amount of bad press. I was about to order a Kuranda when I spotted an ad for a new heating system for boats called Hurricane - a Canadian system distributed by Calcutt Boats. I arranged to visit Calcutt and was immediately impressed by this system - firstly it comes as a complete system, easy to fit, totally controllable for both hot water and heating with a 9.4kw output and fully self diagnostic . 1st problem solved. For rads no one will ever convince me that there is anything better than fin rads - they are positioned in the correct place, at floor level, so as to obtain maximum heat circulation, they are neatly positioned so they are unobtrusive and if you select the right ones far more efficient than normal domestic rads. To improve the efficiency on the rads I searched for a manufacturer of a two pipe system where both the flow and return are in the fins - this way you get the benifit of any heat left in the return. I found a company called Claytons in Coventry who make rads for trains, coaches, etc, They come as a complete unit with a kickproof cover as part of the construction, all you have to do is screw them in position. They come in lengths of 1,2,3 meters and can easily be coupled together if longer lengths are required. Claytons they will also calculate what exactly you require if you send them a layout drawing of your boat. From memory the output is along the lines of 500watts per meter of radiator. To finish these off we had the boatfitter fit a 3'' shelf over the top for the full length of the rad which dovetailed into the boxing which covers the pipes, so from a standing position they are disguised without interfering with the heat output. I also ran a complete loop from the back of the boat across the front and down the other side leaving the pipes exposed where they pass through cupboards and under beds so as to combat any condensation Now fully commissioned this system has far exceeded my expectations. I know I was in a fortunate situation with this boat and wasn't constricted by a budget as the equipment that I have used tended to be more expensive but it's a once in a lifetime build for me so I tended to overlook the cost factor and with the end result I'm pleased I did. Sorry to be so long winded with this but I feel that my experiences may be of some help as the colder weather gets closer and people think of upgrading their heating systems. Reading this may give them an insight into any pitfalls, the major one being controlling the heat to where you actually want it so you remain comfortable. Clayton's contact details: Clayton Transportation Climate Control, tel: 02476 691916, email: clayton@btconnect.com (no web site)
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