Blob Fish

I tried this this morning with the engine going at about 1500 rpms, and when I tried it after 2 hours there was enough hot water to comfortably shower ?

We can't use the eber at the moment because it's broken and needs a service (probably start a thread about this too), and we won't want the heating on in summer. We don't have a generator unfortunately. I think I only had the engine in tickover - I did rev it but I can't remember where I left the stick - so it might well be that, and that does sound like a likely explanation to me, because the water wasn't cold after two hours, it just wasn't hot. We're in a marina atm so I'll try it again today and 'put my foot down' to see if that makes a difference. Thanks all.

I realise this might be a 'how long is a piece of string' type question, but it might not, so thought it worth asking. We had been getting our hot water from using our eberspacher, but I tried showering just using water heated by running the engine for a couple of hours in neutral, and the water was.......not cold exactly, but neither was it anywhere near as hot as when it's heated by the eperspacher. It was tolerable at best, and that was just using the hot tap. Does it take a long time to have properly hot water as a 'by-product' of running the engine? Or it is our boat?

So, your thoughts on NBs not being particularly eco-friendly has got me thinking. (I am so late to respond because err life!! :P) Now, I am perfectly willing to concede that NB diesel engines are not ideal (and neither are loads of windmill farms - just ask the birds and bats!). But as they say: “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good” (and let’s hope that hybrid and electric engines or whatever’s more eco-friendly becomes more and more common!). So I think you’re probably forgetting a few things when estimating the environmental impact of NBs. Aside from having lifestyles that generate too much greenhouse gases, the average citizen of the developed world uses far too much water. You mentioned that narrowboaters need to use the engine to get water - but what about how much water the average narrowboater uses compared to someone who lives in a house and can mindlessly turn the tap on and off, take luxuriously long showers or nightly baths? It’s not just fuel we need to conserve in daily life, but water as well. Leaving the lights on in unused rooms too, or laptops or the TV running, all these things you are much much more careful about when cruising than in a house. Granted some people hole up in marinas all year, but I would be pretty confident to guess that narrowboaters use far (far) less water and electricity than those on land. Further, please don’t underestimate how living in a smaller space will influence other important behaviour that greatly impacts our environment. A decade ago the NYT had a very interesting article in which they asked: is it really better for the environment to buy that organic hemp sofa, or a normal sofa? And the answer was? Neither sofa - keep your old one. There is a reason why they say: reduce, reuse and recycle - and in that order. (It is so frustrating how so many people view recycling as like a neutral or even beneficial thing...the recycling trucks are still spewing co2, and the energy at the plants to process the material is not nothing either.) Compared to most people, we are probably shockingly minimalist, but I know even so on a NB I will have to pare down my wardrobe - and keep it small! And we know of a family, a couple plus their three children, they’ve been living on the canals for years (9?) and they absolutely love it. Somehow, I don’t think their kids are growing up with the usual mountain of fossil fuel-derived plastic toys that most kids these days do. Living on a narrowboat will discourage mindless consumption (of water, electricity and goods), and seeing as how excessive consumption is currently murdering the environment……. But let’s also take a look at the diesel used by NBs, since honestly that does make me feel a bit uneasy. Nevertheless: the average household in the UK / developed world usually maintains at least one car. NBs are kinda neat in that they combine house and car in one. Now, it can’t be understated how much I enjoy rambling about the countryside and exploring walking trails. So by living on a NB, rather than driving frequently about to visit different trails (and then driving back to home base), we can take our home to them. It’s like the ultimate form of glamping (and btw I am the sort who would gladly go camping for weeks at the drop of a hat) As for more specific figures on how much CO2 NBs create vs homes, I’ve only done a quick Google but some highlights: http://ftp.iza.org/dp7204.pdf “According to our study, median UK household emissions are 17.1 tonnes of CO2 emission per year whilst the mean is as high as 20.2 tonnes.” https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/climate-change-carbon-emissions-family-household-flights-vegan-a9203096.html “Roughly, the average middle-class family of four’s carbon emissions for food and energy are as follows: 16.00 tons - General consumerism 12.00 tons – Meat based diet 10.00 tons – Family flight to Miami 4.60 tons – Two cars driven at UK average mileage of 14,800 km/year 2.25 tons - Gas central heating 0.75 tons – Electricity (if not on an 100 per cent renewable green tariff) 0.20 tons – Water supply (although this calculation does not include the high carbon cost of hot water or its ecological impacts)” So you estimated that a narrowboater will use the engine for approximately four hours per day? I am only quickly googling, but on average that’s four litres per day? So: 4 x 365 = 1460 litres per year; each litre is about 2.62 kg of CO2 so that’s 3825.2 kg of co2 per year (let’s call it 4k). I’m too lazy atm to account for NB stoves, but you know, one of the most important things we could do, even beforewind power became more common, was to move into a smaller living space to help the environment. Even if your heat is from wind power, heating excess space is still not good...and well, excess space is hardly a problem for most people on NBs! So, I really do think it’s fair to say, narrowboat living - despite the diesel engine and stove - will drastically lower the carbon footprint of the average Brit!

Apparently 6mm was a mistake, it's 8mm! They've just emailed us the survey from 2019 And yeah, a slightly scruffier boat - for sure it's natural that a lot of people get a certain degree of their self-esteem and happiness based on how their home looks! Perhaps, though, we are a bit lucky in that we've lived abroad and learned to appreciate the inside more than the out! No one could object to a gleaming fresh pro paintjob on a NB, but so long as we're cosy (and dry...) It's just that we've looked at so many boats and seeing one that has what could be a proper little office good to go is amazing to us. We'll both be working remotely on the boat, at opposite ends, and there'll be frequent and (simultaneous) video meetings. The use of space on different boats is quite extraordinary, can't believe Madhatter's only 58'...

I think it's fair to say that your experience is not the standard experience? Most people don't own their houses outright, and indeed many increasingly move onto the canals to escape the rent trap. Many NBs cost the deposit of a house - even if moorings are higher than council tax, over decades, I doubt it would total the difference between deposit and cost of the house (let's say £200k). And repairs and all that for NBs can quickly get into the thousands, but that's no different than owning a home. But I would argue that serious housing problems can be even worse. Roofing, foundation repairs etc can easily go into the tens of thousands. The great thing about owning a home is the ability to build up equity of course, which is something you can't do with a NB. But for most people, that will involve a couple working fulltime for 20-30 years paying off the mortgage. NB, home ownership, or both - all options are fine of course! Everyone ought to do what works for them best

Wow, so many amazing replies, thank you so much everyone!! Recording everything into our Google Docs, thanks again!! Is it alright if I post here for comments a couple of NBs we are seriously considering? We feel it's come down to these two: Amelia https://www.google.com/url?q=https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/walsall-boats-60-traditional-for-sale/618589&sa=D&source=editors&ust=1613508375406000&usg=AOvVaw0epDWf2tk7F9IKYa9SqWVl Pros: think it looks quite nice inside and out, and love the dinette, but it does need some work. Most notably: internal doors installed (so we can both have online meetings simultaneously if needed); second bed removed (which means removing the pump out tank). Madhatter https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/5423.aspx (video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tfnesyaMQ&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3j6Y-akB0L3EWCu1Yj3IbOuRytoxVD-fMnHC5eaoITOozR6GQ7N0xbVMY) Pros: the layout is incredible for us - the dinette in the back is all ready to be an office, plus there's even a closet. Not to mention, but it's got a Thetford cassette so it'll be easy to convert to a composting setup, which we prefer. For work to be done however: clearly needs some work on the outside to touch up the rust (which we hear might not be too difficult to DIY it?), the shower too will need new grout and maybe tile, and you can see in the pictures the air fresheners which is a potential red flag. There's a dehumidifier in the bedroom cabin as well, and we're no strangers to dealing with excess humidity in living spaces unfortunately and that eternal quest of trying to create proper ventilation, but the marina has acknowledged that while there is water damage around the windows, most of it looks "historic" save for a window in the saloon which feels damp. We're not sure how to interpret that (ie how potentially serious it could be), but anything to do with water damage sounds like a headache. Also the keel cooled engine, which I've just been reading is not exactly ideal... We have a viewing arranged for Amelia soon, but we're incredibly tempted to see if we can put in an offer conditional on survey for the Madhatter because of how quickly boats can go and we just love the layout so much. We feel strongly about both boats, although they both will need some work. Decisions decisions!

aww shucks, thanks!! ? I am so looking forward to all the walking and cycling and systematically exploring all paths available near the canals! I'm of the firm belief that there's no bad weather, only bad gear, and I feel sorry for those who don't feel the same! After years of cycling I couldn't understand how most people complained of the weather, when their biggest experience with it is walking from the front door to the car, or the car into the supermarket... ?‍♀️

That doesn't sound too bad, actually! My experience with regular maintenance (I am a bit embarrassed to admit), aside from tech stuff, is with merely with bicycles...but y'know, when you have a 20+ mile (rainy) commute, you are forever having to check this, grease that, pump up tires etc. It feels good actually to have that routine, and do something with your hands. And since we'd like to CC, I imagine there will be a lot of regular maintenance to do and things to check on a boat!! Thanks again!! If you don't mind me asking, was there anything that surprised you in your first year, wish you'd been aware of?

Well, we've got the warm dressing gown good to go ? No but seriously, thanks for sharing which generator you use, and things like the spare fresh water pump - so good to know! When you search online for what you need, it mostly just says "just downsize as much as possible, then downsize again" .....well going to the UK from living abroad, we had to get everything into a few bags anyway, so what next?? ? And £40k in a year! I imagine you must've done some serious upgrades to your boat? I do wish more people would remember to budget for big ticket repairs / upgrades (painting, replacing engine etc), but hopefully a good surveyor will make the buyer aware of what'll be needed in the near and medium future. For us, aside from being closer to nature, we see living on a NB as a way to truly minimise our environmental impact, we've done as much as possible already but you just naturally have to be conscious of energy and water consumption on a boat! One of us too had a great great grandfather who was a bargeman waaaay back in the day (walked along the K&A), so we're quite looking forward to y'know experiencing in comfort what great great grandfather did for work ?

Brilliant, thanks so much! This is exactly what we are looking for! We're looking forward to learning how to be handier, but for anything a bit complicated I think at first we'd hire some experts. So, we definitely are interested in knowing what's needed for basic maintenance. Speaking of, off the top of your head, would you have any list of maintenance tasks that you've found to be necessary daily / weekly / monthly / seasonally / yearly, that sort of thing? One of us is dearly fond of lists and schedules Thanks again!

Hello, google and the search function here don't seem to turn up anything specific for this topic, so apologies if this has been asked! Aside from typical household stuff (tableware, bedding etc), is there anything special that you would take with you when moving onto a NB? For example, a particular set of tools? Many thanks!

This will really help narrow down our questions, thanks so much!! So a bit of background info for what we're looking for: Basically, we're in a similar situation as the lovely Chugging Along couple. One of us will work full-time remotely (with lots of random virtual meetings), the other probably just part-time (and we really want to make sure we're not giving the other background noise). We were surprised at how easily they've managed two work spaces on their 51' boat, and it's clearly because they've got enough space at the end of their bed for a tiny table (and two internal doors which means they don't have to worry about noise / talking over one another!) Four years of working abroad has taught us to be very very flexible minimalists. Not even being able to fit a proper table at the end of the bed wouldn't be a deal breaker, or even that much of an inconvenience since setting up a temporary standup desk wouldn't be a bother to us. That said, a spare room / proper office might is not the worst thing in the world. So we've made a table of potential boats we're currently looking at, here are the highlights (starting with the 'spare room' boats as we've come to call them): https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/walsall-boats-60-traditional-for-sale/618589 Amelia Pros: second bed can potentially be removed (we've emailed them about this). We prefer Amelia over the previously mentioned Laura James for creating an office because for Amelia, we'd be working at opposite ends of the boat (so quieter / more out of the way etc). Boat is bright and looks very nice. Cons: for us, the pump out, though replacing that is possible ofc. She's also slightly older, so will require full regular surveys for insurance, but that's not a huge consideration for us. Out n About https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-cruiser-stern-for-sale/654042 Pros: also a potential office in the middle, between the two bathrooms. Cruiser stern also looks quite nice Cons: two bathrooms! (obviously important for hire boats / families but for us we just see it as wasted space / extra work if we wanted to refit it...anything we buy will need work to customize it as we like, we're just trying to be aware of how big a project we're taking on). Lyra: https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/shop/lyra/ Pros: same layout as Chugging Along, so despite the small size weirdly seems quite good for two workspaces (very few boats actually have space at the end of the bed we've noticed!) Seems to be a good basic NB. Cons: ...our nickname for this boat is actually 'ashtray boat'. Haven't seen it yet so no idea if there's any lingering smells...! And naturally we do wonder if we wouldn't eventually prefer something larger (though we've seen a few adverts from couples who've lived for 4-5 years on boats 45-47' and are only now looking for something bigger, so we could potentially do the same). Craigdhu: https://newandusedboat.co.uk/used-boats-for-sale/1537 Pros: very classy lovely boat from the pictures. Also 57' though we're not adverse to 60'+ Cons: no room for a proper-ish office. Dorothy John https://www.alvecotemarina.co.uk/boats-for-sale/brokerage/dorothy-john/ Pros: like the look of it, even the kind of old train car-type dinette Cons: slightly older. And 60' but no room for a proper-ish office.

This is brilliant, thanks so much!! Ben's lighting was quite a concern of ours as it happens, so much appeared from the video to come from the side hatch and a glass door. That said, we actually dug the old timey feel of it, the paneling and lamps etc And ugh, too many brokers/sellers do seem to be a bit slow updating about the sold/under offer status of boats. I mean this market does move quickly but still! Thanks again!!

It must be hard to tell from photos, but do you think Laura James' extra space is more flexible than Amelia's?? Laura James: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-traditional-for-sale/654156 Amelia: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/walsall-boats-60-traditional-for-sale/618589 The extra cabin for Amelia is near the stern, which just appeals to me a bit more...so eg if one of us is working in that office, we're not tramping through it unnecessarily. Oh neither of us are very good at diy I'm afraid unless it's for computers and electronics! If I could watch some youtube videos on using an orbital sander I might be game to try though, so long as I could be reassured that it wouldn't be too difficult to make a fatal mistake eg sand away too much! Thanks for having a look at the boats! We do very much like Badger

Absolutely, and it's one of the first things we tried figuring out...initially we thought we'd only be able to do 70', then got into the whole "but sub 57' means we can go anywhere" and then "but actually there's very few canals not accessible by 57'+ boats" etc etc. A very odd and at times incredibly vexing thing we've noticed is how space is used. We've seen 50' boats with a better use of space than 57' boats, and shudder whenever we see an engine room! Easy access to the engine for someone who just holidays occasionally on a narrowboat must be nice, but for a couple living on it that space is too precious! We thought Amelia might be a good compromise for size...not too long or short (60'), and a spare bed that could potentially be removed and turned into an office. It's a pump out though, and you don't have to read too many stories of those gone wrong to hm think twice about them!

For sure this is not an ideal situation! Here is one of the boats we're interested in: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/walsall-boats-60-traditional-for-sale/618589 We have a video for it as well, and of course it does seem nice. However, we really don't need two beds (though we do need two tables/desks for work). We were wondering about the costs of removing one of the beds so that we could have an office instead...the under-bed storage is basically built-in furniture so we are hoping it's y'know not connected to anything important so maybe it's something a carpenter could remove neatly in a few hours? Lyra is also a lovely lady we think, quite a good classic sort of narrowboat aesthetic: https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/shop/lyra/ We also like Badger (that galley!!) but we're not sure how to assess the note that it needs 'some' TLC and (just) 'a lick of paint' for the exterior, since exterior paintjobs can be incredibly expensive: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/triton-narrowboats-50-cruiser-stern-for-sale/654633 Some others that we like: Apache https://newandusedboat.co.uk/used-boats-for-sale/1457 Ben https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/peter-nicholls-50-traditional-for-sale/623440 Craigdhu https://newandusedboat.co.uk/used-boats-for-sale/1537 Laura James (though this one also has two single berths we have no use for!) https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-traditional-for-sale/654156

Wonderful that is so good to know, thank you so much! Oh we are certainly not interested in renting, even if it weren't difficult to arrange buying a narrowboat even if just for a year or two seems to make a lot more fiscal sense. Thanks for that tart tip! Warm dry and cosy that is exactly what we want! We would like to be liveaboards for the foreseeable future, and even CC Thanks for the reply!

As newbies to boating, we’re going to be heavily dependent on surveyors/experts to help steer us (hahame) in the right direction. We’ve found a boat that gets a score of 8-10 for each of our criteria, and we love the aesthetic. She is however a slightly older lady (1989 build), should that impact our decision making process? (ie what should we be on the lookout for?) From our research, the big ticket repairs are: hull, engine, and paintjob, but should the survey reveal no immediate or near future issues with these, in that case is age nothing but a number? In a similar vein, how comprehensive is this list of questions to ask (below), or is there a better list somewhere? Is there anything else we should be asking? Unfortunately it looks like we are going to be almost exclusively Zoom viewings for now as well, so it already feels like it’ll be a bit awkward asking questions like, “Is there any smell of mould?” https://www.gypsy-trio.com/complete-checklist-buying-renting-narrowboat/ And final question - can a 60’+ NB in the south yorkshire area get to the K&A, Shropshire union, etc? I'm not exactly sure where all the 'pinch points' are in the network. Thanks so much for your time!

Hi, my wife and I are looking at buying a boat to live on, and one thing we were wondering about is having internal doors - a number of boats we've seen online that are 'open plan' might be suitable for us, but we would both need to work on the boat at the same time, and it would be necessary to have some separation so our phone conversations aren't cross-talking over each other etc. Is it expensive/difficult to have internal doors fitted? Does anyone know? Would you need a specialist joiner/carpenter? Thanks.