NB DW

Thanks. I definitely don't regret it not progressing it. And having seen more photos since I don't much like the wraparound bow - the steel lines where it's been extended look really obvious to me. In fairness to Whilton, out of all the brokers I've been in touch with and sent details over my likes, dislikes, budget and 'ready to go' position, they've been one of the few that have acknowledged it and since been in touch about a boat that's coming to market next week that meets my criteria. They're happy to send photos ahead of it arriving and will let me know just ahead of it arriving so I can view, should I wish to. One Cheshire based broker who I sold my boat via the summer of last year didn't even bother to acknowledge it despite personalising the message to jog their memory of our previous dealings.

That was me. I was on the phone to them when the boat had only been on the market literally 5 minutes. This was late in the afternoon. I was told that I couldn't view unless I paid a deposit and even then a viewing would only be allowed at survey time. I explained it would be for residential use and despite them going away to check for any exemptions after I explained other brokers were allowing viewings for residential sales, it was still a no. At 10:00 the following morning it was under offer and is now sold. I've seen some pictures of it in dry dock having been blacked and presumably surveyed. So it's worked out for somebody. Great Haywood have next to nothing too. Anything on the website which appears available has either been sold or withdrawn, so they tell me, but don't alter the website. Presumably to drawn you in and get your details on their register.

Brokers and sellers are, understandably, capatalising on the current goings on. If this doesn't exemplify the extent of this then I don't know what does: https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Razzle-Dazzle-Brochure-2-1.pdf For sale in July 2020 - £50K An almost identical boat came up at Rugby Boats last week, arguably in worse condition for £70K and sold immediately https://rugbyboats.co.uk/listings/summer-mist-stunning-58-trad-2006-severn-narrowboats/ I'm sure it won't last. The rationale I keep hearing for the demand is down to people not being able to go on holiday. That's something I just can't get my head around. If it's true then I'd imagine over the next 12 months pleanty of these will be back on the market once the reality of owning and running a boat has taken hold.

Mine had 3 positions, as you say, with one being 'off'. I used to leave it on charge mode when hooked up because I thought it was acting as both a charger and inverter at once, not realising until I read this explanation that the inverter function was never actually being used since the shore line made it irrelevant. But yours is another good reason to leave it on this function when hooked up too. Thanks for your help.

Cheers. Makes sense now. I had a Victron inverter/charger on my last boat, only 800w, but seemed to do the job fine. I only had a small TV and a laptop, no kettle or anything else which would require a lot of power and the lights were LED. When plugged into shore I used to flick the switch to 'charge' so had the benefit of keeping the batteries topped up and the use of the inverter at the same time. But when cruising used to flick the switch to 'inverter'....which is what I think you're saying too.

Thanks all. That's potentially some money saved. I thought it necessary even when plugged in. Just the immersion to sort then.

I'm not sure whether it's pure sine wave but the owner has the manual and is bringing it along with him, so I'll check that. From what you're saying it does sound like a complete change would be required anyhow with it only being 1600w. The immersion would only be used when plugged in to shore line. I'd rather a 'proper' washing machine - twin tubs seem a bit of a faff and far too involved to use but I guess it's an option

That's right - does that mean an inverter wouldn't be required? I shall take a look. Don't worry, that's the reason I want an immersion - I only want to use it when marina-based.

Hi, I've a viewing of a boat that's up for sale privately. It had a 1600w Sterling inverter currently but I'm not sure this'd be sufficient to run a washing machine. How's it possible to tell? Assuming it's not, other than the cost of a new inverter, would there be any other additional costs such as wiring etc? There's a calorifier and a Webasto but no immersion. I'm not sure whether the Webasto is capable of heating water or only for heating the radiators. Anyhow, is it possible/sensible to fit an immersion heater to a calorifier? If so, I'm assuming there'd also be the cost of the wiring and switch to add on top? The boat would be moored in a marina so wouldn't be keen on using the engine to keep heating water. If not, I'm guessing it's time for a new calorifier with an immersion already in it. How much would something like this set me back, as a ballpark figure? Apologies for all the questions, I'm very green to that sort of thing.

Excuse my naivety but how do you heat your water? If you're out cruising and have a pure electric set up, how do you cope? If you've got a diesel generator, could this be used instead of a calorifier / immersion / Webasto or equivalent etc?

Cheers. It was more diesel availability and cost in years to come which made me wonder what'll become of diesel heating systems.

Other than solid fuel, with diesel on its way out, what is there that would replace Eberspachers and the like for either radiator or blown air heating?

Wow, much cheaper than I thought! But then there's been no labour costs. To be honest, a lot of my dithering over getting a liveaboard now my house has sold - I exchanged contracts today(!) - is a £20k conversion cost from ICE to diesel. I read the cost of a Beta Marina Hybrid install was up to £30k too. So maybe 5 years or so from now a professional electric install including parts and a generator would be under £10K? And the generators could be run from something other than red diesel? Cheers,

Just out of interest, what'd be a rough conversation cost of a diesel to a hybrid with a generator?

I wasn't looking for a debate over the values, as I said, I'm not certain on the average. Typical cost per ft for a new boat is maybe £1,700, and say the average size is 50ft. Around £85k+ isn't a million miles out is it. But let's say it's £100k, the point still stands in respect of depreciation. Once at 30 years old it'd likely have hit the worst of the curve by then.

I'm not sure of the average cost of a new boat is but let's say it's £85k. In 29 years it'd surely have done most of it's depreciating regardless of meeting the regulations or not? What'd it be worth, in today's money, £30-35k? But because of regulations they'll have no value unless converted, as the cost of conversions will be as great as the value of the boat itself? How come cars haven't gone down this route instead of electric?

I'm not technically minded and don't understand most of what's said on this thread in terms of conversions, but my understanding is that people are managing to convert existing boats to electric etc. Basically, there's nothing stopping a conversion other than your wallet and will. Even if somebody were to get a fairly new boat now, by 2050 its value would be pretty limited by then as it's going to be 40+ years old. The positive I'm taking from all of this is that an accepted and workable solution can't be far off if it's going to be mandatory in fewer than 15 years from now. So those with ICE don't have to wait too much longer for scrapping their engines and converting. That is, I'm assuming, it's as simple as that, i.e. there's no change in engine bay size or structure or whatever on newer boats which would mean conversion of an older boat wouldn't be possible.

Unfortunately, yes, that's right.

Plenty of brokers within 10 mins or so, and even more within an hour. I'm fortunate. The boat's definitely owned by them. I just don't want to put a deposit down on something I can't even set foot in. I'm sure that as things get better with Covid, hopefully by summer, this'll have changed.

Thanks. I've read and heard lots about them. Some good, some bad. Much the same with Great Haywood, they seem to operate in a similar way. I seem to remember with Great Haywood you only got your deposit back if the issues found during a survey amounted to a large percentage of the asking price and not the selling price! And even then I think it was limited to the hull and excluded electrical systems etc. Venetian own this boat and they're not brokering it.

This came to market today. It's 5 minutes away from where I live but viewings are not permitted even if it's going to be for a primary residence. That is unless I put £1000 deposit down which is only refundable "if there's a problem at the survey". https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/5406.aspx No chance I'm going down that route. The steelwork at the bow was extended by Stephen Goldsborough in 2012 to extend the cabin and give a dedicated bed. It's not something I've seen before but presumably has had a full repaint externally since? Also not sure whether it was Stephen that did the work or done under the company which bought and used his name (so I understand). Shame as it looks a good one.

I'm a bit confused - that's exactly what I said: "I don't want a project boat or a do-er upper, I want something that's ready to go"

I'm not looking to spend money for the sake of it and max out my budget. I'm fairly open to layout and shell type, I wouldn't rule anything out until I've seen it. I don't want a project boat or a do-er upper, I want something that's ready to go. For £50K I should get a very decent 50(ish)ft boat, I'd hope. Just wish something would come to the market. I'm able to view boats if they're going to be a primary residence. Brokers are accepting this. My head's still spinning over what to do and I was up til 4am thinking about it.

Thanks very much for the input everyone. Appreciated. Reading the replies has made doubt set in again and I don't mean that to sound critical of the advice given. It's caused me to have a wobble. As said before, I've been concerned about giving up bricks and mortar but in not doing this I'd not be able to afford the boat. My house is sold and with the £60k equity I've got in it I couldn't get a BTL mortgage (hefty deposit needed) and have enough left for the boat. I think I could get back on the ladder should I want to in a few years, assuming I got a reasonable return on the boat, plus what I can bank and invest meanwhile. I reckon £60-80k is doable in 3-4 years. I've definitely no illusions over life being easy, quite the opposite, which is why I've been procrastinating over things. For three months I spent six nights a week on a 25ft cruiser stern Aintree Beetle with only a 100 litre water tank etc. I'm not mechinically minded but I'm willing to learn. And when things break I'm fortunate enough to have the funds to sort it, without meaning to sound crass. I've never lit a stove - the Beetle had blown air heating and the Eberspacher pump was far too noisy/had an irritating click, click, click to leave running overnight, so the temperature of the boat was regularly 8 degrees and damn cold in the morning. In January there was frost on the inside of the windows. To me, if I could put up with that then I reckon I'm fairly robust - maybe I'd find waking up to temperatures in double digits pure luxury if a stove's been left running! I'm definitely a long way removed from some of the vapid "I JUST SOLD MY HOUSE AND BOUGHT A BOAT!!!! YOUTUBE!!!" crowd who appear clueless. I'm very much a newbie when it comes to boats but seeing some of these videos and the evident lack of research or understanding of what they've gotten into is unreal. I've no emotional attachment to my current home and maybe that's because I see it as a house rather than a home. This probably born out of having moved and lived across countless houses and towns/cities in the last ten years, only being settled in one place in the last four years permanently. I've tried the leisure boat route before. My thoughts were it's too expensive to have for the use I'd get out of it and I couldn't justify it to myself. I reckoned on living aboard not only because I liked the idea but also because the cost was then justifiable - living aboard was no more expensive than having it for leisure use. A 50ft boat is a decent enough size for what I'd need and £50-60k should get me something very decent. I'm not interested in white painted/modern interiors. Something a bit more traditional like T+G would be lovely. And yes, the boat would be kept in a marina with decent facilities and then moved on to the cut regularly. I'd be based in Nantwich so I wouldn't be stuck on the same stretch seeing the same sights - I can go north or south on the Shroppie, or up the Llangollen, or across the Middlewich to the T+M. I had an end of farm mooring before and didn't cruise that much. I just enjoyed the open views and seeing boats pass me, and the activity on the tow path opposite. It was far more social than I've found living in a house (albeit it's a new-ish build estate and I don't much like it). The doubt or perhaps the reality of maybe a duff decision has set back in now. One horrible thought seems to be a quote I read somewhere once..."they all move back to land eventually".

Hello all. I thought I'd post an update six months on from my original message - it feels like a long time ago since I started this thread and I expect most people have forgotten what it is all about and my situation. I'm still in my mid-30s, single and no dependants, so no change there! But other things have changed a little since my last post. A long story short is that I sold my home in November. I'm due to exchange and complete by the end of this month. Having decided to shelve the liveaboard plan in the middle of last year for the reasons given, I instead planned to sell my home in order to buy another slightly larger home which needs doing up. After months of looking at properties online, and a few in person, I never really got excited or fired up at anything I saw or even the idea of it. To me, that's not a good sign when you're about to take out a larger mortgage and even more so when it's a home that's being bought; not exactly an insignificant purchase and not one which shouldn't generate much emotion or feeling, I don't reckon, at least. With everything that's going on in the world, who can say whether house prices will drop, flatline or continue to increase. So perhaps now isn't an ideal time to buy. I think we're at least twelve months away from anything that resembles what we'd call normality in the world. Over Christmas I was allowed a visit with my mum who's currently sectioned in a hospital due to complications with early onset of dementia, largely due to not eating and drinking, having been diagnosed at the age of 56. I've been reminded again that perhaps I shouldn't be hanging about and dithering over making a big decision. I'm due to get the results of the test taken to see whether I've inherited the genes which cause early onset, by the end of the month but that's another story. Lastly, I was fortunate enough to get a promotion at work which kicked in during December and all's well there. The idea of buying a larger boat to live on was and is something that's continued to nag at me. I've continued to weigh the pros and cons of selling up to liveaboard, financially and otherwise, doing sums and maths on what things might look like financially if I were to do it. I appreciate that not everything is about money and many of the pros and cons can't be measured by numbers and are intangible. But massive worry and fear of coming off the property ladder has been one of the biggest blockers to be doing it. I've even talked myself out of buying a larger boat on the basis a boat might be worth scrap value in ten years depending on what happens to diesel. The sale of the house means I'd have £60k to buy a boat. And enough set aside to cover a survey and some remedial work (assuming it's nothing too serious!). I'd also have zero personal debt, no mortgage, and own my car etc outright. Plus I'd be left with around £25k invested in stock and share funds / SIPP. This is absolutely not meant to be some sort of an attempt at boasting or a brag, but I'd be fortunate enough to be able to bank/invest £2-3k per month should I choose to liveaboard - I only mention this as it's helped justify to myself my decision. So, I've decided to go for it. I'm buying a boat. My plans are to liveboard. No half measures, no lodgers or pulling out of my home's sale and getting a cheap BTL property to let out. The idea is to do it for an absolute minimum of twelve months, taking in all the seasons, to get a full idea of what it's like. I've chosen not to retain a property deliberately, in so not allowing myself a 'get out' or the ability to 'nip home' etc perhaps at a time when it's cold or lonely or whatever, a soft option which probably undermine what it's all about. With what I'm very fortunate enough to bank, my thoughts are that if I were to choose to go back to dry land then I'd be no worse off even if house prices did rise, and I sold the boat twelve months from now. Don't get me wrong, that's not my aim and I certaintly won't be circling days on a calendar. If I'm still on it in ten years and diesel's dead I'm sure there'll be a feasible alternative by then in terms of ICE replacement even if it means putting my hand in my pocket. So that's that! Decision made! The only problem is that due to lockdown nothing's coming to market and even that which does I'm not allowed to view. So I'm sure there'll be a load of pent up demand again. The people who I've sold my house to have bought it as a buy to let, so I'm renting it back from them on a rolling monthly contract until I find a boat which has saved me having to move out. Thanks again for your good wishes and advice.