mboat01

Thanks. Really helpful. I was assuming the calorifier circuit was in parallel (and so safe not to have on). There is info on this wrt. Canaline engines on pg 38 (here). I'll run engine and watch what happens to engine temp. Mike --- as you're the Boilerman (!). Could I ask you another calorifier question ?. Boat will used only for cruising only 2 adults most of the time for next few years. For hot water Im thinking about just relying on (i) engine - calorifier when cruising and (ii) immersion heater element when on hook-up. It seems to me that a smaller calorifier tank would be better as it would be quicker to heat up when on electric immersion in particular. What size/volume would you recommend ? - would go even smaller, e.g., 30L ? (a Jabsco 25psi pump - at open flow provides 7L/min,. So a shower with hot mixed 50:50 with cold water would drain = 3.5L/min hot water, so a 40L calorifier of hot water should be sufficient for 11 min of showering - which I think is plenty for one, and enough for two to shower if you're quick)

Another, probably incredibly stupid question ? ... Isuzu 33HP engine in order to remove calorifier I shut off engine coolant-to calorifier supply at valves just out of engine - I presume engine is safe to run like this (without calorifier) with no other action required... ie., to have engine running safety as if calorifier was never fitted ?. (I know that the engine-calorfier output/return must *not* be connected directly together !).

no, no bowthruster & no tube (I think!).

Update ... So, the good news is that water does drain to stern. I moved everything I could to rear and that really helped... well it helped produce another 20L or so of water at the new stern floor hatch... ?. Bad news is that I dont think Im really satisfied * - probably more of a psychological problem than an engineering problem - I want to do the job properly !. Ive got the inside completely stripped out, bulkheads and everything removed so, as Im down to bare ply floor, Im thinking I might as well remove it all, take out the ballast, scrape, treat rust, prime and bilge paint the base plate, put new ballast in, put new ply down. Yeah. Fun. Definitely a quick and easy little job. Probably only 20minutes. * (in some inspection holes there is 2-3mm of "mud". Only its not mud. Its an amalgam of rust and dust and other filth that was in the bilge. I just can see this layer drying out very easily and, even if it does, its going to be a focus for corrosion)

That's exactly the sort of brilliant idea I'd never have thought of !!. With my (lack of) money and age this boat is only opportunity I'm likely to get to get a narrowboat so I'm really motivated to do it right and get it right. Initial shock at binge water has passed now need to be a big girl and get on with it

Thanks again all. Ill take all weight I can to the rear. Going to completely strip out everything anyway including (internal) bulkheads, so hope that will help. Hope 'black' im seeing on underside of ply is paint and not mold LOL (not) ... Thanks Neil. v.helpful wrt concrete drying time. Oh yes, I was in the pub super early. I havent just got home, eaten a ginsters pastie and collapsed. no. not even slightly.

yes around 50L from stern section and levels in other sections didnt seem to go down much... time will tell on that on. Think good advice to leave it at least a few days. the thing about drinking lots of lambrusco is you cant remember if you did things before or after, or indeed if you did them at all ?

Will it drain ... that is the question !Did as suggested. Results as follows, in order from stern to bow: (1) Stern larger size hatch hole. Removed ~50L of water with vac. This is where water was deepest. Ply pretty wet through. Think it may have to go. (2) Mid-Bedroom. Ply quite dry. 10mm of water between balast blocks. (3) Aft-bedroom. Ply dry-ish. Wet. 8mm of water. (4) Toilet. ply good. 5mm of water. (5) Rear lounge ply dry and good. Bilge floor only slightly damp. no standing water. (6) Large hatch hole by aft doors. Bone dry. (see photos)So ... most of water was lying to aft. All plumbing now removed. Pretty sure hull is good. So no more water should be coming in !. Real test is ... will it drain to stern overnight ?... or does it take longer ?My next worry is that the hull metal base beams may not allow drainage to stern. Anyone got experience of completely stripping liverpool boats hull --- do they drain to stern ?.What do you all think about the baseplate ? (taken at rear where was under most water). It seems to have been painted. (as was the ply on the underside). It is definitely blistered to a small extent but no deep flaking or soft areas. Does this extent of corrosion need all the ply floor removing, balast removing, rustkill, blacking ? -as per what these guys say http://floatingboatyard.london/water-cabin-bilge ?

Thanks. Panic attack over. Feeling better this morning if hungover. Id better just get on now and deal with it. It is why I cut the holes in the first place so that I could check the cabin bilge... Suppose I cant complain that I found the problem I was trying to look out for. So:water off, remove calorifier ("cauliflower", LOL), cut floor access hatch front and back, cut inspection holes, remove spongy ply, shake 'n' vac, nappies, look at base-plate, vent, fan, dehumidifier. At least that wont take long. Should be finished by 11:00 for a quick pint of lambrusco at the nearby pub ?

i think 2ft... as one joist just at edge of first inspection hole I cut and presumably ?? next one at join of ply boards ... as per photo below cant check cos Im back home now crying into my beer

do you think cutting a hatch this big would be overkill ?

Its 2005 -- so lovely surprise to find cabin bilge in this state ? Helpful thread about boats with through bilge here - Im pretty sure mine hasnt got one ... engine bilge is fine ! (about 1cm in the bilge sump, othewise nice 'n' dry) After advice from everyone I think I'll cut a 2 foot x 2 foot square hole out of the stern-most port-side floor ... all the fitting are on the port side so most of the water is going to have gathered there... Of course, just to make life easy, this happens to be where the calorifier is .... so that going to have to come out. Dont ya just love it when jobs snowball.... That way I can make a good assessment of the baseplate. The floor is good quality (i think) marine ply. I'll then also cut out maybe x10 'inspection' holes, vac and dry it all out, and see if I can jamb a fan into the rear big hole. Dont ya just love it when jobs snow-ball bigger and bigger ! Id better find a good source - good more important than cheap for this - of BS rated 18mm marine ply...

Lol - these : https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/250062641 (how do you even know that these are good for absorbing bilge water !?? - talk about esoteric knowledge!) Ive now had a whole pint of lambrusco and its starting to feel okay ?

Thanks for support. Really appreciated. As you can gather from its all a bit terrifying !. Hole cutter worked quite well, got idea from here

thanks guys. thats been really helpful. Half a pint of lambrusco has helped a bit too. I'll have a go as you all suggest and bail it out. Hope you dont mind if I post a pic of baseplate when I get down to it Currently looking up price of nappies at Aldi and new jigsaw at Screwfix ...?

Newbie doing refit of boat. Drilled inspection holes today in ply floor as suspected that bilge might be damp. Well ... it was worse than my worse nightmare... 1" of water sloshing around at the sternmost point of cabin up to 1/2" by 10' down the boat. At that point I felt too depressed to drill any more holes and have come home to ask for help !!. I think the water has come from a leak some time in the past from water pump (that has now been replaced). I dont think there are any current leaks. My question is - How do I deal with this properly ? I can get most of the water out I think with wet and dry vacuum cleaner, maybe use nappies too. Im not too worried about that. What do forum members think needs doing about the floor ? Do I need to lift the ply floor, bin it, get down to the concrete paving ballast and get it all bone dry with a dehumidifier ? Is it realistic to have cabin bilge bone dry ?

The deed has been done ! All went smoothly ?. Nuts came off calorifier without difficulty too That's the good news Bad news is I m going to have to disconnect the whole calorifier to assess and deal with soggy ply floor and access rearmost point of cabin bilge....

Thanks so much everyone. Consensus seems to be stongly in favour of back boilers.. Plan for hot water is (1) engine + calorifier, (2) immersion element in calorifier (already fitted and working) for when on 230 line, (3) kettle on stove (!), (4) kettle on gas hob, (5) elect. travel kettle. (3) and (4) are obviously only for cups of tea amounts. Hope I dont jigger the nuts when try to remove as would be helpful to leave open option of using 2nd coil in calorifier in future if necessary for diesel boiler. I think black hose goes just to ugly yellowish vessel poorly mounted on a shelf (on LHS of pic 2) (?? pressure relief). Id better check pretty carefully it doesnt go anywhere else or do anything else before I cut anything :-0 Im torn between multiple redundancy heating approach and just keep it simple - stove for heat (plus maybe x1-2 elect. radiators), and hot water as above.

I'd love to do that... but...as you can see from the picture there is horrible, rotten, mildly carpet glued to the walls below the gunwales. The ply under the calorifier is also rotten. So that has to go too. All of this will involve removing the stove calorifier pipes.

Ive invested in a https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/bmv-700 so I should be able to do some testing before going definitely down the elect. rad route.

Thanks Jen. Yes, the electric rads will be when moored with hook-up only. When on the cut just have to manage with the stove. Why do you say 12v ?? - I was planning on running the rads on 230 ? - yes, there is a loss of around 1A for the inverter, but thats manageable. We dont have a washing machine, or telly, or any other major electric items. The lights will be 12v but low watt LED units. We've got a mooring on the Macc Canal. Only 6A leccy !. LOL

Thanks Jen. Yes, the electric rads will be when moored with hook-up only. When on the cut just have to manage with the stove. Why do you say 12v ?? - I was planning on running the rads on 230 ? - yes, there is a loss of around 1A for the inverter, but thats manageable. We dont have a washing machine, or telly, or any other major electric items. The lights will be 12v but low watt LED units.

Thanks. Didnt know that was possibility !. Should have worked it out - copper is expensive so they've prob used min thinkness sheet for calorifier walls. I'll have a go at the nuts but if stiff think I might chicken out and go back to plan A and hacksaw through nearby. A proper plumber would never do this I know.

Thanks so much for the reply. Its having the support of knowledgeable and helpful people on here thats given us the confidence to take this all on. The existing stove is very kaput - cracked grate, crack in side plate, poor fitting rusted flue collar. We're going to go for just a stove on its own for primary heat. Prob Morso 1410. We're keeping the stove centrally located. Its a 50' boat. So should be heatable with 4-5kw stove. Thinking its that it will work better as a stove with less thermal mass (water in radiators) to heat. Will use eco fan. We're also thinking of having a secondary system when on hook-up of 2 x 600 watt electric oil-filled radiators. We've got x4 leisure batteries (400A), a newish (2014) victron 1600watt inverter and solar so 1-2hours of electric radiators in cold mornings should be fine (600/230 = 2.6 Amp draw for each radiator). Maybe these : https://www.adax-solaire.com/electric-heaters-c1/oil-filled-radiators-c6/alo-oil-filled-low-profile-electric-wall-mounted-radiator-p2 So, very trad and, a bit modern, is the approach ?

Please help. Complete newbie who has just bought boat needing total refit (yeah mebby not so sensible - Im going to have to learn a lot along the way !!): I'm going to remove my stove and (gravity) back-boiler. How do I disconnect from Calorifier - can I just drain the back-boiler-to-calorifier copper pipe circuit and cut then cut the pipes ?. If thats okay what do I do with the now not used circuit on the calorifier - do I leave it open and uncapped ?. Really appreciate any help