Theo
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Posts posted by Theo
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3 minutes ago, David Mack said:
The boat my parents owned in the late 60s had an Osokool fridge like this that needed no power. Just keep the depression on top filled with water and it would diffuse through the plaster casing and evaporate, keeping the contents cool.
Brilliant! A stage up from the butter cooler that we used to use. When our 230V fridge broke down in a heatwave we used a cloth draped over the milk bottle sitting in a bowl of water. Not as good as the OSOKOOL.
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On 03/07/2023 at 12:43, Tony Brooks said:
Nowadays, with adequate solar and a decent quality inverter, you will probably find a good quality mains fridge would have a very similar consumption to the 12V compressor fridges. Possibly not if you try to do it on the cheap with a Far Eastern inverter and a cheap mains fridge.
If you are living aboard then unless you are on a mains hook-up winter could be a problem for either 12V or a mains fridge.
I would echo Tony's opinion. Our new Lec (mains) fridge rated at A+ is proving excellent.
Nick
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I decided that running the engine just to charge the batteries was expensive in fuel and very noisy in the boat (BMC 1.5) so I went down the path of a suitcase generator running on lpg.
I think that you need to reduce your electrical consumption. A 2.4kW kettle will draw about 200A from the battery but it's not on for long. What about the Remoska? I son't know the power or duty cycle but it might be significant.
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7 minutes ago, Tony1 said:
That looks like very good economy indeed.
If you say that that the 5 litres of petrol ran it for about 10 hours, that's 240 hours running on 39kgs of propane.
I cant remember what my last bottle cost, but I'd guess it was approaching £40.
If you work on a sort of worst-case scenario of £40 per bottle, that's £120 total, for 240 hours- so 50p per hour of running,
If you say a litre of petrol will run a 1000 watt genny for what- two hours maybe(?), then that's about 75p per hour of running, if you assume the petrol costs around £1.50 per litre..
Petrol prices go all over the place, and gas varies too, so cost comparisons are never going to be easy, but 50p vs 75p per hour has to be considered a very significant cost difference.
But as Puffling pointed out, the warranty issue is a complication, and with a brand new honda genny, most people will stick with petrol and thus keep the warranty valid.
You could run it on petrol until it's out of warranty and then switch to gas.
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27 minutes ago, Tony1 said:
Do you have any feel for the relative costs of the different fuel types?
Gas bottles are not cheap, and I only have room for one in my bow gas locker and one in the stern locker, so accommodating a third would be a challenge- but worth considering if the economic case is there.
If we say a 1000 watt genny uses 0.5 litres per hour, then a the cost of a gas bottle will buy enough fuel to run the genny for many hours- the exact figure will depend on the model in use. How many hours do you (roughly) estimate a small converted genny will run on a full propane bottle?
My records from 2015 - 2016 tell me that from the time I bought the Kipor 1000 I ran it for 250hrs and bought 3 x 13kg bottles of gas for it. I should also add that in that 250hrs I also bought 5.3 litres of petrol, which I used before I fitted the gas conversion.
HTH
Nick
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On 18/07/2023 at 13:55, dcjones888 said:
I have a Abverc on Perkins 6354 neg earth so want to fit Lucas A127 Alternator so I could use a conversion diagram to connect Adverc green to if any one could help , I tried to contact Adverc by phone but was told they no longer have a technical department, and that the company had changed hands
That's a shame. They were really excellent on after sales when I bought ours 8 or 9 years ago.
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4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:
What are the economic factors of 1000watt vs 2000 watt gennies?
E.g. a 1000 watt genny is more frugal, but if you want to run a 45amp battery charger it will not be running at idle, so the fuel consumption will increase- whereas the more thirsty 2000 watt genny will do the charging at a lower speed (one would think).
Does it sort of balance out (so that their fuel use is roughly the same), or is one does one type use noticeably less fuel than the other?
I've considered a suitcase genny several times, as an alternative to running the engine for battery charging in Dec and January (when there's not enough usable solar). But my Sterling shore power battery charger will only charge at 30 amps max, so in my case a 1000 watt model would be suitable.
I dont fancy 3 hours of genny running every day though, which is what I'd need to get close to my absolute minimum 100Ah of usage per day in winter.
Three hours running per day might need fairly frequent visits to the nearest petrol station, even with the maximum allowed size of jerrycan (I think the max allowed might be 20 litres for a metal petrol can).
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That's why a gas conversion is a good idea.
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On 29/06/2020 at 15:00, MoominPapa said:
I second Richard's point about weight and portability. We have a Kipor IG1000 which is just powerful enough to run a 45A charger and that's what it's used for. The boat is wired so that the 240v loads in the boat continue to be powered from the inverter whilst the batteries are being charged by the 240v from the generator via the charger. That way I only have to size the inverter for peak loading and the generator is sized just for the battery charger. Heaving anything heavier that the 14Kg of the Kipor would be a pain.
Ours is two years old and has been pretty good. Totally reliable and easy to start. Two criticisms only. First the amount of oil between full and the low oil sensor activating is tiny. To avoid the possibility of it shutting down on low oil you have to check it quite regularly and it's a bit of a pain to do, as it requires a screwdriver to remove the non-captive screw holding the side panel on. Second, ours is the version sold by Midland Chandlers with a female commando socket fitted, rather than a conventional 13A socket. This is great as they are more weather proof, but the plastic panel it's fitted into is a bit flimsy and flexes a lot under the force needed to withdraw a commando-type plug. Nothing has broken yet, but it's on my todo list to reinforce it before something does.
MP.
Coming very late to the discussion that's exactly what I have and exactly how I run it. The only differenceis that I have fitted a gas converter. Petrol is really hard to come by on the canals and not that esy to store satisfactorily. I have two gas bottles for normal domesting use and a third one dedicated to the generator. All 13kg propane.
Edited to add: I leave the gas bottle in the locker and have a long flexible hose. The pressure reducer is on the gas bottle with a "Gas fuse".
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Thanks for all the comments. I had the impression that thse two young men had an idea and didn't do their homework. What will happen now is up to them. They had thought about stability and someone was going to do some tests for them but the someone hadn't turned up so they were carrying on anyway. I think that it may all end in tears.
N
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This conversion is nothing to do with me. I observed it in progess and asked, not quite in these terms "Do you know what your are doing sability wise?" and they, not quite in these terms said "No". They had the grace to look somewhat alarmed and said they would look it up on the internet.
I might put a note through the door to get in touch with Paul Fisher. The were pleasent, hardworking chaps and I would hate their dreams to be shattered at the stage of completion and getting the boat licensed to do whatever they intend to do.
Nick
22 minutes ago, MtB said:I've a sneaky feeling I may not need to... 😅
They are very pretty boats in a variety of styles. Worth a look just to admire.
N
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In converting a wide (12foot?) narrowboat into a cafe boat it is proposed to deck out the roof to make it level and have tables, chairs an customers sitting on the top. Has this boat a chance of being stable?
A heeling experiment coupled with the mass of the boat will give the length of the righting lever but you need to position of the CofG to move on from that to work out the effect of 40 people on the roof! It all sounds very dodgy to me.
Am I being alarmist?
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4 hours ago, MtB said:
Nice looking boat from the outside but a very dated and sparse interior.
Also, not a proper trad style separate engine room forward of the back cabin. On this boat the engine is IN the back cabin, right under your feet as you steer along the cut. Not nice.
If I were in the running for a boat I would seriously consider this one. I find the dated interior rather appealing. What interests me is that nothing is said about what's under the tug deck and how do you get to the space. The engine in the back cabin is a bit of a downer.
Nick
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We have come to the conclusion that the young man, who said that he was a volockie, was having us on deliberately or had ben fed alarmist information.
He said that 24 hrs before he saw us he had been warned by CRT to get off the river in 48hrs and that was 24hrs ago.
The Severn is a pussycat today. Had an excellent run down and are moored overnight below the Avon Lock. On down to Gloucester tomorrow. That'll be new water for us. We haven't done the Severn below Tewkesbury before.
Thanks as ever for all the advice. CWF never fails to be helpful.
N
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The split charge relay is downstream from the master switch but the sensing leads are connected directly to the batteries as per the instructions.
N
Quoting from my earlier post:
Engine running at full temp after about 1.5 hrs cruising. E11 showing and SG battery voltages 14.1V on the domestics and 13.3V on the engine. This, to me indicates a high resistance somewhere in the engine battery circuit.
I guess that the master switch is being affected by the temperature in the engine hole.
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Thanks all.
StephenA, would you post a link for the graph that you showed, please?
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4 minutes ago, NB Alnwick said:
Mid Wales has had some very heavy rain and that means that water levels will rise but there should be more than enough time to get to the safety of Gloucester Docks and the Sharpness Canal
So whne do you think that the surge will reach Worcester?
N
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Met a man in a boat. He helped us through a lock as we approach Worcester. He told us he had been warned to get off the Severn because in 24 hours the river levels will be high and the yellow boards will be out and may be red soon. He also said that he is a volunteer lockie and CRT had contacted him.
We intend to go to Gloucester so this concerned us so I looked at the river levels and trends and warnings. Nothing to alarm us on there. Does anyone know anything different?
I am beginning to think that he was having us on. Or was he correct and had more info that we do?
Nick
And then I find this on the CRT web site:
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Water levels River Severn - Lock 2 Gloucester to Upperlode Lock
/notices/20932-water-levels-river-severn-lock-2-gloucester-to-upperlode-lock
I am confused!
N
I then clicked on the link for the CRT warning. It was for November 2021! Web sites are useless if they give misleading information.
N
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On 27/06/2023 at 17:28, Alan de Enfield said:
You should not charge your batteies via the alternator at 'idle'.
Start engine and check charging current, increase revs, the charge current will increase.
Increase revs until the charging cirrent doesnt increase.
Leave engine running at this speed until the charge current starts to fall, reduce revs until the cgarge current start to fall further
Keep running at these revs until the current starts to fall
repeat repeat.
This way you get maximum charge for the fuel used and don't over heat the alternator by running it too slowly.
Exactly.
But I have a query:
As you run the alternaore more slowly the filed current supplied by the alternator regulator has to increase to keep up the output voltage of the alternator. Presumeably this has a maximum value determined by the design of the system. By reducing the revs and keeping the max output you are keeping the filed current at a maximum. Why, then, will reducing the revs further mean that you overheat the alternator. Won't heating reduce if the output reduces?
Nick
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On 06/07/2023 at 22:06, magnetman said:
That looks like a sink waste fitting.
Not sure I would like to use that on a lavatory with a pumped discharge.
Certainly not. Over time, with the variable pressure the joint will work apart.
Nick
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Thanks for that Mr Jones. All good advice which I will follow later. Here are some more readings.
- Engine running. Alternator delivering about 40A. PD between engine battery +ve and Domestic bank +ve (as measured at the terminals where the sensing wires are connected ) is about 150mV. Battery voltages as measured by the SG 13.2V and 13.5V. No error showing
- Engine running at full temp after about 1.5 hrs cruising. E11 showing and SG battery voltages 14.1V on the domestics and 13.3V on the engine. This, to me indicates a high resistance somewhere in the engine battery circuit.
I had a brief problem with the engine battery master switch recently which I fixed by swithchin on and off several times. I think that might be the problem.
I'll investigate further.
Thanks for the advice that's coming in. It always helps to write about the problem. It helps to clear things in my mind.
Nick
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The relay contacts were closed when we arrived at the mooring this evening. I turned the engine off and checked the resistance across the terminals. I measured it at 0.6 Ohms. At, say 30A, that would give 5V drop. Would that be enough to casue the error?
I think the next thing I will do is to check the pd between the +ve engine battery and the +ve domestic when the alternator is giving a good output in the morning. That's where the sensing leads are connected and should give an indication of the whole run of cable. I suspect that cleaning the relay cpntacts would do no harm.
Thanks for the advice chaps. Ill keep you posted.
Nick
Latest bulletin:
Still connected 5 hours after mooring up. SoC reading 99% voltages on domestics and engine equal within the limitations of the SG. It really looks as if there is resistance that should not be there and I still think it's most likely to be the relay contacts. But you never know...
Nick
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Hi all
I fitted Gibbos kit in 2007 and it's worked really well ever since but I am getting an E11 fault now. In the manual it says "Smartbank, (...) has attempted to operate the split charge relay but Smartguage is measuring different voltages on the 2 batteries. This would indicate a faulty relay or faulty relay wiring. In either case split charging is probably not taking place."
I have not yet done an inspection but I would start by having a look to set if the relay contacts are closing when the SG says "con" then measuring the voltage drop across the relay contacts.
Any other thoughts?
Nick
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On 25/06/2023 at 09:43, Tony Brooks said:
A plea for clarity so we know what you and others are talking about.
We know from a previous post that you have an indirect raw water cooled system, or alternative name, heat exchanger cooled. There are boats, especially those with a ground up designed marine engine, that really are fully raw water cooled and much advice applicable to each system is different, especially in respect of freezing, corrosion inhibition, fitting a calorifier, and thermostat temperature.
So if anyone is asking for advice and thinks "raw water cooled" is sufficient information. Either differentiate between the two types or send a photo of the engine.
Hi Tony.
In my earlier post (June 23rd) I repsonded:
Thanks, Tony.
Before I was asked the question that's what I suspected. I would have just put it in the inhibitor tank and let it do is stuff during a few days' cruising. I'm interested to see that you would drain down and replace the whole, or most of, the coolant. Why is that? Does the ethylene glycol degrade? I was under the impression that it is just the corrosion inhibitor that degrades.
We have an indirect raw water cooling system with a water cooled exhaust. (BMC 1.5)
Thanks for all the advice that you have given me and the rest of CWF over all these years. The first bit of advice that you gave me was back in 2006. We still have the same boat and the BMC 1.5 is still as reliable as ever.
But taking on your request for continued clarity I will use the term "indirect raw water cooling" in future. In fact, I might even go back and corrected my posts...
On 25/06/2023 at 12:26, dmr said:Just a point of information....almost all antifreeze is ethylene glycol, this is the anti-freeze component.
Occassionally Propylene Glycol is used instead, this is less toxic.
Its the anti-corrosion component additive that defines the coolant. The old stuff is "inorganic" and blue and lasts a couple of years.
The modern stuff is organic acid, lasts much longer and is usually pink. There are various generations and sub-tpes of this, and quite a few colours as well as pink.
Its probably the early type of organic that can sometimes give mixing problems.
In addition to the anti-corrosion additive there can also be lubricant and anti-cavitation additives.
Its complicated stuff.
That's really useful thanks.
I had thought, wrongly, that the modern antifreeze was not longer ehtylene glycol and that was the difference between l blue and pink. From what you say it looks as if I can continue with my plan to NOT drain the system but just add the inhibitor. Have I got that right?
Nick
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This is what I copied from here: https://flash-cooling.com/en/the-pink-cooling-liquid/
The organic type LDR is usually pink/red in colour. Also, it is composed mainly of products of organic origin which finally offer a more accumulated protection of the engine compared to liquids of mineral origin.
Generally, pink LDR is a universal coolant up to – 30°. In addition, it is particularly suitable for VOLKSWAGEN, MERCEDES and GENERAL MOTORS vehicles. It also protects the cooling system down to -30°C. Its pink colour is identical to that of the manufacturer for a better follow-up of the quality of the product. Pink antifreeze is a permanent coolant of the latest generation. This type of liquid benefits from an organic technology based on carboxylic acids, perfectly compatible and miscible with G12. It is a ready-to-use product. It can be used as a complement or as a complete renewal of the circuit for better efficiency.
I am using the old fashioned ethylene glycol stuff. It's coloured blue. I notice that with age it loses its colour. Is that to do with the degradation of the inhibiter, I wonder?
Incidentally, I love my raw water cooling. In over 5,000 hours of engine running under all conditions of fast running up rivers in warm weather and icy conditions in the winter it has been no trouble that I haven't been able to rectify. There were just two occasions when I had to take action. The first was that the intake tube in the mudbox became corroded and I had to replace it. The second was that little snails had taken up residence in the gearbox oil cooler. Duckweed on the run down to Keadby was no problem.
Nick
Gloucester and Sharpness Traffic Lights
in General Boating
Posted
Our first trip down the G&S but we have been a little uncertain about the protocol.
Reading the guides says even if your air draft allows passage wait for the lights:
Steady red: wait
Flashing red: bridge or lock being prepared
Green: proceed
We approached Hempsted bridge from the north and there was nothing showing. We got closer and closer, still nothing. Stong wind so I phoned to find out what to do. "Your too far away wait a bit. Still no lights showing. We needed to keep steerage way on and by this time we were passing the traffic light. The bridge keeper came out and started windng open the bridge. "Ah," thought I, "lights dysfunctional". Proceeding as slowly as I dared. The bridge now fully open so I proceeded and got told off for not waiting for the green light.
Sims bridge lights worked as per instructions. Rea Bridge: no light so we hung about and waited. Eventually the bridge keeper walked down and said that we could go under the closed bridge and that the lights not showing indicated that we could just proceed.
I am a little confused...
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