PeterCr

At least if we had to change the name to Rats the signwriting would be cheap. Only 4 letters!

I get the feeling the brokers don't have to try hard for sales at the moment. We saw a boat that we'd consider and so I emailed the broker asking for some extra photos of things that we couldn't see in the few photos they have put up, and for a few more details. 4 days and haven't even had a reply.

A while ago I did look for someone like that, in the past Matty did that and I contacted him but he said he was a little busy and probably couldn't help so much in the current market anyway. He did produce a shortlist in the past but said it was hard to do so now when they were selling fast. I have more recently spoken to a surveyor and he's been great, even dropping in to view a boat for me when he was going past. I'm not so sure that he'd take on a lot more than that though, he surveys. But he has been great to date, though I've only asked about one boat. I have thought, and I think suggested here a while back, that there could be a business for someone over there who knows their stuff helping foreign buyers like us. I know quite a few people, including from here, have bought unseen, and a buyers agent would be extremely useful. I even suggested that a while back as a business idea to a liveaboard guy who wrote a boating newsletter but he wasn't interested. Whilst we live in Oz my wife is from Nottingham and still has family there. Our first trip was about 25 years ago in a 20 foot grp we borrowed from the inlaws. 5 weeks over the Llangollen and we were hooked. Couldn't do that now in a boat not much bigger than a bathtub though! Since then we've hired quite a few times and always loved it, usually a month or 5 weeks at a time. It pays to hire for 5 weeks, it costs roughly what marina costs and licence etc add up to for a year and there's no maintenance to pay. But this year we could do 2 trips, each about a month or more, but she retires next year (I'm retired already) and we'd like to do 6 months next year and following years. Hiring is fine for a month but for longer use it gets expensive and as we can afford it we'd like our own boat rather than a hire boat each time, though I know we could do long term hire. And whilst the value of the boat might drop you do have an asset you can sell when the time comes whilst hiring is money gone. Maintenance - well that's another issue but we'll just get on with that. And we're continually surprised at how many Aussies we meet on the cut when we're there. Plenty of us own a boat there and do back to back summers. Just not us yet but we're working on it! Sadly we moored up 2 years ago behind an Australian couple who were selling their boat, exactly what we wanted, but just a couple of years too early.

We've got a football team called Collingwood but I haven't yet come across a boatbuilder of that name here yet. But who knows, they build them in Poland and Czechoslovakia. Why not? But then again as you say we don't build much here any more, though we dig up lots of stuff! Good luck to you too. I'm sure it's not easy even over there. And as you say it changes from one brokerage to another. There's some I won't even look at just from all the negative comments here. I've been following your thread about the Aqualine. We've seen that boat for sale for a while and so interesting to see some informed comments. We're looking for a reverse layout though so wouldn't consider that one. I was encouraged by ABNB though who offer the contract after the survey, not before, and after any issues are ironed out. The reason I asked about Liverpool or Collingwood boats is that 10% clause, though I have spoken to one broker at least who is willing to at least make it 5%. If there is a major fault that triggers that 10/5% then I can walk away. But if it's a boat that is just poorly built, but without specific faults that can be identified to trigger that 10/5% clause, then I can't walk away without losing my deposit. If for example the surveyor says there's no major faults but it's just not a great boat and he wouldn't buy it then I'm a bit stuck without a major expensive fault/s to rectify. So after quite a few less than complimentary comments here on those 2 boats I thought it might be worth asking what the problems were (if any) and what I should look for even before a survey. And yes I have at least sat on the M25, I'm sure it's the same as the M6 or M27. Same here on the Monash Freeway going into Melbourne. Actually I'm finding some fares now below $1000 if out of school holidays. However the fare is probably cheaper than the costs of staying over there and looking at boats. We see a boat that we would seriously consider come up very occasionally, and I've read here of people taking many months/years to find a boat. I may need to pay for commercial accommodation and car hire for an extended period of time and that could become very expensive, not to mention finding something to do with my time when I'm not looking at boats. I have considered buying from here on the strength of a survey but in that case there's only 2 brokers I would consider. And for a private sale I'd have to come over and keep my fingers crossed the boat was still there unsold. Just last week I saw a boat we'd consider on private sale, sold this week. Rats.

Wow I thought it was the middle of the night over there, do you guys never sleep? I was expecting replies tomorrow. The owner told me that it was pretty rough crossing the Indian Ocean, they even had to close the side doors at one stage! Yes I'm in Oz and I can tell you it's a nightmare trying to buy a boat from over here in the current market. As soon as I look at something it's sold. And I had to laugh when I read that someone on here, I forget who, was finding a 4 hour drive was a bit much to see a boat. I'm tossing up with buying an air ticket over there and paying for (possibly months) of accommodation and car hire so I can look at boats. And thanks Alan, it would be second hand of course so your comment about faults being ironed out is a good one, though hard to iron out a banana! But I suppose it's something for a surveyor to look for. I do find it worrying though about these clauses in the contracts that specify that you can't walk away unless rectification is over 10%. If the surveyor just says it's an ordinary boat and he wouldn't buy it then I'd want to walk away, but short of the 10% I can't without losing my deposit. So if it's a Liverpool or Collingwood and I get that comment from him then I'm a little stuck. And I've heard recently of a number of people who have lost deposits with a certain broker for exactly this reason.

Hi All I've seen quite a few comments here that aren't exactly complimentary about boats from Liverpool or Collingwood. As a prospective boat buyer I'm wondering exactly what faults I should be looking for, or should I just avoid Liverpool or Collingwood boats altogether? Thanks

Checked out Transferwise. It's similar to some others like that I've looked at. I know someone else over here used a similar service to buy a boat over there. They are primarily a currency transfer service and they make their money from currency exchange. So if I was to transfer $A to the UK as £UK then they will do that, they make money on the exchange rate. But because my money is already in £UK I can't transfer that to the UK because they make nothing on the currency exchange. I suspected, but thought I'd confirm that and rang them but they did confirm that they can't help me unless I transfer in $A. I asked if I could somehow use my £UK in the UK through their service and they said no. Rats.

I watch quite a few youtube videos from narrowboaters. It's how I get my narrowboating when I'm not narrowboating. At least 2 of them have admitted to falling in. And a bit of a worry if you're single handed, depending where and how you fall in.

Thanks for that. I'll take a look.

I've seen that suggestion made before, not sure if it will work or not. It may well be obvious after some months of that that I'm just doing it to keep up with their conditions, and they might cancel the account anyway. I'm encouraged by Helen's experience in getting an account though, just paying the £500 in each month as a way of saving. That's my fall back position. As LadyG says they may not accept large amounts of money, but I could transfer in bit by bit. But that would work and we are considering it, in fact I've asked my wife to talk to her mum about this when they speak next. Only issue, and a major issue, is that she is quite elderly and if she died then it's not our money any longer and would pass under her will, and not necessarily to us. Her bank account would be frozen as soon as she died and our money is stuck. That's the main sticking point. I believe all this stuff about problems getting bank accounts and transferring money is anti money laundering legislation. I've read that even people moving to the UK now have trouble getting an account in the first 3 months till they have something like an electricity bill to show that they live there. Apparently it used to be much easier, but has got a lot harder lately. We've thought about that and have added up the cost a little. But it's as much about having our own boat as the cost. We've hired quite a lot, a few times for a month at a time, and got some nice boats, but they are hire boats and not all that comfortable for long term use. We'd like to have a nice comfortable lounge with some nice leather chairs, a wood burner burbling away in the background and our own clothes in the cupboards for when we arrive. Some solar panels so if we sit in one spot for a week we don't have to keep running the engine every day. Etc etc. Hire boats, whilst nice boats, are limited in features other than the basics. The boats we've hired have uncomfortable bench seats and when we've been on them we've commented that we couldn't spend months in a boat like that, despite the fact that it's a nice boat. Basically we'd just like to make a boat our own so that we could come over when we felt like it and take out our own boat. But I do appreciate that there will then be some unexpected hassles with that which we wouldn't experience with a hire boat. I will also have to learn more about the boat than I would with a hire boat. We'd buy a second hand hire boat from the same hire company we have used, as they are well built sound boats, but we'd change quite a few things ourselves to our own taste if we did buy one. We've always hired to date, and it's worked fine for us, but only for a short while. For a month a year it makes financial sense to hire, but for 6 months we're not so convinced. Also of course when you buy you've got a saleable asset, and although you'll probably sell it for less than you buy it for after a few years, you'll get much of your money back. 4 or 5 years of hiring and you've paid for a boat and not got anything to sell. Though I've not looked at Etrr before, thanks for the link Alan, I'll take a look. We're not done yet though, it's still quite some months to go before we could cruise, April/May would be the earliest time we'd get on a boat there, the market might go quiet after Christmas

No it's not impossible. To get a UK account from here I need to pay a significant fee and travel about 4 hours to the closest HSBC branch to me so that someone there can confirm that I am the same person as in my passport. If they want another document I have to go back again. I then need to guarantee that at least 500 pounds every month goes through my account. Every month, or they will close the account for inactivity. I have tried to explain that some months there will be more than that, and some months none as I won't be in the country, but they insist that they must see 500 pounds of transactions every month or they will close the account. After much research online I have read that I might - might, be able to get an HSBC account in a branch in the UK when I get there, though most say I still need to show that I live in the UK. The suggestion that I have seen is that if I change my home address on my Australian HSBC account to a UK address (ie my inlaws) and get an HSBC bank statement showing the UK address then that might be sufficient to prove a UK address. But it's a bit unknown. Last night I tried ringing HSBC customer service in the UK but just got stuck in a queu. Am aiming to try again tonight. If I happen to have $1.5 million dollars in annual income and $2.5 million of assets I can get a Barclays account, similar with Natwest. And whilst I can buy a boat I'm not that flush! Lloyds - forget it.

I've spoken to a broker at New and Used at Mercia when we got there at the end of our last hire. They told me they had sold boats to Australians sight unseen on the say so of a surveyor. Maybe it's just me but I just see that as a little risky. I have also spoken to various Aussies when out on the water. Most of them bought when the market was a buyers market so they could take their time, fly over and look at a bunch of boats that had sat on the market for some time and make an offer. Make a list of possible boats then fly over when there's a dozen or so to look at. One of them offered to sell me their boat one night when we were moored close together. They had done 5 years and were selling and heading back to Oz. It was a boat we'd have loved to buy, just what we liked, but it was just a couple of years too early, before we were able to retire. Though I wish now I'd bought it, I hadn't expected the market to change like it has. However it was a very bad day for them. That was the evening of the Brexit vote and by next morning they told me of the result and the fact that the pound had dropped by, as I recall, around 10%. So they had effectively just lost 10% of their money once they converted back to dollars. Sounds a bit like my problem, hard to get to the boat to view it. So I'm not the only one that is in a position of, perhaps, buying a boat without ever having set foot on it. I'd like to get a survey as it's the first time I've bought a boat and I don't know enough about it. But I know from here that some sellers just want a sale and in a market like this might not take an offer subject to survey. I've spoken to a surveyor about that already and he did offer, by email, to talk in advance. I've emailed him back but not had any reply for quite a while which is a worry though. Maybe he's got his head inside an engine compartment or something. But he said at least 2 weeks minimum for a survey. I've got the cash, just not a way to pay it over. I've been putting money into pounds for a while now with HSBC and have enough to buy. However when I asked them for a card that I could use on the account they told me that it was in HSBC Australia and I couldn't use the account at all in the UK despite the fact that it's in pounds. I need a UK account so I can transfer the money to a UK bank then it's there for when I need to pay, but getting one is really difficult, I think even when I get over there opening a bank account requires me to show a UK address, which I don't have.

Yes it means I'd come over to look at a boat then go back. Then come over again for trips of a month or so next year then about 6 months on the cut the following year. My whole family is back here and there's not much for me to do there if I stayed. I have agonised over how to buy a boat from here. I know that some people have bought a boat sight unseen simply on a good survey. I don't know if I could do that. However the logistics of coming over to buy are a real headache. Firstly accommodation. I do have inlaws in Nottingham but a couple of days tops is all I could stand staying there. I have found Airbnb places though at reasonable prices. But the real issue is a return flight. I used to be able to get one way tickets so I could choose my return flight when over there. But they tell me now it's impossible to buy a one way flight to the UK. I must buy a return and must nominate a day to return. Changing that day is almost impossible except at massive cost. I did it last year due to illness and it ended up costing me more than a whole new flight. So do I buy a week in the UK? A month? I have contacted a surveyor and he tells me at least 2 weeks for a survey. Then if work needs to be done it's longer. Then if I can't moor where I buy the boat I've got to try and find a mooring somewhere (possibly in winter) and take the boat to the mooring. And if I come for a month and don't buy the boat and look at all the others on the market what do I do for the next 3 weeks? Unless another nice boat comes on the market I've got 3 or so weeks to kill. So trying to work out the return date is a complete nightmare and I haven't got any answer to that really. And so far I've completely failed to get a UK bank account despite lots of trying, so haven't quite sorted out how to pay for a boat if I find one, even though I have the funds (in pounds). But then that's another story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks all, I have a certain, limited, amount of experience, having hired a few different boats over the years so have some idea how they should handle, hopefully enough to be able to detect handling problems. One of the things I have been warned about is reverse. I've been told that some boats are terrible in reverse. Whilst I know that no boat is great in reverse they can be handled, but the person who warned me, who has a lot of experience, said it was very important to see how a boat handled in reverse as some were virtually impossible. So I was wondering whether brokers routinely allowed you to actually take a boat out. I would expect private owners would, but some brokers might not, so I thought I'd ask. And whilst I'm certainly a remote buyer I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to buy sight unseen even with a good surveying report, so I'd get over there to inspect first hand. So I'll be there to take it out.

Hi all, just wondering. If you're buying a boat is it normal that you'd get to take it out for a little drive, perhaps to the nearest winding hole at least? And if so at what stage in the proceedings would you get to take it out? Before making an offer or after, and if it's after should the offer be subject to an on water test?

Sounds like an ocean liner. Agree completely and I don't really expect to find the perfect boat with all that. I know we'll always be compromising and I expect that. That's just a wish list of things we like, I doubt we could even get it all buying new! We have seen a few boats we'd seriously consider, one sold just as we got serious. One we'd look at except that it's registered as 63 feet, though advertised at 61. We ummed and ahhed about that one but decided we do want to see the north and would prefer not to be limited by length. It's also been on the market for quite some time which in this market makes me wonder why. But if we were over there I'd certainly go and look at it. Quite, we do understand that and our real preference for a stern would be the semi cruiser I mentioned, we just don't see them for sale. I also have an aging mother in law who might come along from time to time and she really needs good stable seating. So we fully plan to take a look and sit on the seats on a semi trad to see what they are like. Also some seats are too low to see over the roof which is another issue again! We'll certainly consider a cruiser stern, but not a trad. The mother in law would fall overboard. Mind you perhaps if there was no seating the mother in law wouldn't come! Yes we spent an evening with a South African couple on their boat and they had steel bar type chairs on the deck. We've kept this in the back of the mind in case we do end up with a cruiser stern with no seating. Not ideal but a good compromise for seating. Most annoying though. Those South Africans had their first narrowboating holiday ever, a weeks hire. They liked it and decided they liked reverse layout boats. The next week at home they saw a lovely reverse layout cruiser stern 57 footer on Appollo Duck, flew back and bought it and have just spent all of this summer on the cut, where we met them. Only boat I've seen with a clothes dryer as well as a washing machine. From narrowboat newbies to owners in 2 weeks with a beautiful boat! Different market then though. Hope we feel the same in 6 years!

That could be a bit of a worry then. If the survey finds, say, 4k problems on a 50k boat then it's not within even 10% but it's still a significant amount to take on to fix after you've taken over the boat. Is it normal to accept a minimum 10% before you are able to renegotiate?

I'm wondering if brokers use a standard sale contract, and if so does anyone have one they could let me have a copy of? I'd like to read it in the comfort of home rather than sitting at a brokers desk with the broker looking over my shoulder. In particular I'm wondering about what it says about the rights of the buyer if they get a survey and there are defects found. Thanks all.

Exactamundo! I've really only seen 3 or 4 boats (online) in the last 4 or 5 months that I'd seriously look at. The problem heading over there for a week or 2 to look at boats is that there are very few that we'd really consider, and if nothing came up in that week or 2 I've wasted quite a bit of money on air fares, accommodation, car hire etc and not got a boat. If we were looking for a trad there's stacks of choice, and plenty of really nice boats to look at. But a reverse layout semi trad is far harder to find, and I think more expensive because of this. We'd like to do a month's cruise in April then a month in June next year, so if we skipped April we've still got 6 months to go. I'm really - really hoping this market cools down soon. I assume by boat supermarket you mean Appollo Duck. I've got a bookmarked list of about a thousand brokers (well maybe not a thousand but it seems that way when I look through them all) but none of them are called boat supermarket Here we go. We like a boat where my wife can sit comfortably while we cruise (hip problems). We hired from Aqua who have what they call a semi cruiser stern. So it's got comfortable seats on the cruiser stern with good storage under the seats. We'd be happy with a cruiser stern like that but so far all the cruiser sterns I see are a large open deck with little or no seating, or if it has seating it's just an uncomfortable railing. Otherwise a semi trad with seating in the cockpit. 55 - 60 feet. We did see a nice boat at 63 feet bit eventually decided it was too restricting at 63 feet and decided not to go and look at it. Reverse layout, rear galley not rear saloon though if a great boat comes along with rear saloon we'd consider it. No traditional layouts. So from aft it's galley, saloon, bathroom and bedroom. I have seen some with rear galley and forward saloon. That doesn't really work to me. Budget. I started looking online a year or 2 ago. Not to buy at that stage but to get an idea. Back then I felt that 55k - 60k should buy a nice boat, late model, well maintained, reputable engine with low hours. Now I suspect that it will be at least 10k more than that and if necessary we'll go to that. For that sort of money we'd like to see some good extras. Those include washing machine, nice tv, solid fuel heater, solar panels, cratch cover, good motor with low hours, good capacity inverter and so on. We won't of course get all of this but some would be nice. Some form of dining, perhaps a dinette though open plan if necessary, we can always add a table and chairs. Ideally a cross bed would be great but inline is ok, we've used both. But if we had a choice a cross bed. Walk through bathroom would be nice with a good quality shower. Preference is composting toilet but I think that's as good as impossible. We'll be stuck with whatever toilet we get though we'd prefer not to have a pump out. We've gone through the blocked pump out scenario. And we love our duck doors. Well side doors but we feed the ducks from them so they're duck doors to us. So like you Markinaboat we haven't seen many that tick our very fussy box. Good luck with your offer by the way.

Maths was never my strong point! Yes I had gathered that Beta was a good choice. It's always been a Beta when I've hired, though as a hirer you don't have to consider much about the engine, except for the daily checks. But I'd be happy with a Beta. Of course buying second hand you can't just look for a boat with a Beta, it's hard enough finding a boat to buy without limiting it to one motor. And by later model I mean roughly the last 10 years, that's where we're looking. I have seen a couple of boats I'd consider, one with a Shanks and the other a Vetus M4.17. I was just going to ask about those 2 but thought I may as well cover some other more modern engines at the same time. I've tried researching but figure there's so much more experience here than I could possibly achieve by a bit of internet research. I did read that the Vetus requires an oil change at 100 hours, seems a little soon to me. Good point. The boat with the vetus has a TMC60 and I tried researching that a little too but didn't find out a whole lot except that they clunk a lot, which seems normal. I'd be happy with a PRM150, better than the PRM120 from what I've read. The boat that appeals the most at the moment has that exact, potential, problem. For engine hours it says the counter is broken. It's a 2011 boat. But a broken counter suggests to me that perhaps it's done a lot of hours and they are disguising that. If not why didn't they fix the counter. And how did they judge the service intervals. If it were not for that I'd think of flying over there to take a look, but that worries me. Also last engine service is blank.

Hi all, as I've said elsewhere we are looking to buy a secondhand narrowboat. Sadly I'm not all that technical and definitely not mechanical. I see 3 or 4 basic engines in use in narrowboats. Beta, Canaline, Barrus shanks/shire and Vetus. Of course there are others but I'd like to stick with mainstream later model engines. Has anyone got some good feedback on good and bad points about these makes of engine? Is there any one of those engines that is worth staying away from? And if so why? Or are they all good engines and I should be happy with any of them. Of course how the engine has been treated is another can of worms, but any good advice on what to look for/at in an engine would be warmly welcomed from others much more experienced than me. Cheers all and happy boating.

Yes I have asked Matty about this in the past but it looks like he's not doing this any more, which is a real shame as I'd love to find someone over there who really knows his stuff who could help out. And there's got to be more people than me who are trying to buy boats from overseas, given how many non UK owners I meet when hiring. Narrowboating is so unique to the UK that anyone interested in narrowboating from anywhere in the world has to buy in the UK. A year or 2 back I was reading the newsletter of a boat owner over there, who seemed to know quite a bit about it. I wrote to him suggesting that he start up a buyers advocacy service but he wasn't interested. A bit like we have over here, and you probably have over there, for real estate buyers. An expert who knows the market and acts on behalf of buyers instead of agents who act on behalf of sellers. I think there's a business in that, but the guy I suggested it to wasn't interested. Perhaps a week over there might be a good idea. Probably longer though to get to the major brokerages. If I'm going around visiting major brokerages there's a lot of ground to cover. The first 1 or 2 days are usually spent recovering from jet lag!

Sadly not so easy, I think I mentioned that I don't live in the UK. In fact we live in Australia but have hired enough to know we'd like to buy now we are retiring. So visiting lots of boats is out of the question. If I find one that really appeals (from the photos online) then I'll have to fly over to see it. So I might only see one boat. We already have pretty firm ideas about what we're looking for, it's a reverse layout narrowboat. In fact I've already got a spreadsheet of things we'd like in a boat. And we are limiting ourselves partly to a stern type as we don't like trad sterns. My wife likes to sit when cruising, and a trad stern really limits that, especially with more than one passenger. Shame as there seems to be plenty of trads about and at better prices. The question was more about what I should look at once I've found one I like. So to start at the stern and work forward looking at specifics of engine, batteries, alternators etc etc right from one end to the other. Because if I find a boat we like I've still got to make sure it's worth making an offer and getting a survey, it might look great internally but if the engine is clagged, for instance, it's still not a good buy. I know a survey should pick that stuff up but if there's anything that I can do to rule a boat in or out beforehand, from a technical perspective, I'd rather know how to find it. If I do organise a survey I'd like to be pretty sure it's a good boat first as I'd have to fly over a second time to be at the survey and take the boat over. So better not to do all that just to be told by the surveyor it's a dud. Mind you I'm really beginning to wonder if it's realistic to buy a boat from over here. I know plenty have done it but in the current market I don't know if it's doable. I might fly all the way over there and it's sold already!

Hi all, as I've indicated elsewhere we are looking for a boat to buy. I've never bought a boat and am no expert, though I have hired regularly so know some basics. And sadly I don't live in the UK so can't look at dozens of boats to get some experience looking at boats for sale. So I'm wondering if I could get some tips on the important things I should be checking when looking at a potential boat for purchase. Obviously it depends on the boat and I don't have one in mind. But if anyone has any great tips on what to look at/for, it would be much appreciated. I plan on making a spreadsheet of every single thing that I should be checking, and then apply that list to the particulars of the boat I am looking at. Not just what to look at but what to look for as well. So not just, for example, to check the weedhatch, but what do I look for when I check the weedhatch. All tips gratefully received with thanks.

Sounds like the dogs on board get treated pretty well! I've never seen a dog in pink pajamas, or any pajamas for that matter! Thanks all, sounds like it's better to avoid the longer boats, we would like to go north at some stage. Shame as we found a nice looking boat listed at 61 feet but when I tracked down the CRT registration it was registered at 63 feet! Not finding it easy locating a good 57 (or so) footer. Fingers crossed anyway.