Mike Adams

In my limited experience with a K3 and a J2 is that they are impossible to start on diesel by hand in cold weather. The design of the combustion chambers does not allow the fuel/air mix to get hot enough but they will easily go on petrol. Most later engines with this type of chamber have glow plugs which I don't think was an option on Kelvins. Not all of them had an electic start. My back is not a fan of the K3 and I think the OP was very wise not to install a Kelvin in a wooden boat. The K3 in the sailing barge used to move quite a bit despite being solidly mounted. I imagine a K2 in a wooden narrow boat would soon shake it to bits.

All boats are a money pit. Old boats are even worse. Just as well some of us are prepared to fight logic and keep old boats afloat - best not to think about it. Old boats always have a character and history which is something a replica can never match no matter how exact it is so there must be a limit on what people would pay for something that isn't quite what it seems. However I would much rather see representations of boats that fit with the historic canal environment than some ghastly purple wide beamed boxes on the canal.

There probably will not be any replicas built of those recent working craft like the River Class that would be easy to reproduce because the techniques originally used do not lend themselves to the production of an attractive looking object hence the nickname dustbins. The facilities and the scale of the operation required to produce a true replica of an older working boat would seem extremely challenging and cost prohibitive but I am sure someone will do it at some point. I guess a wooden vessel would prove somewhat easier than trying to produce all that double curvature plating.

I Agree and I doubt if there are any true replica boats on the canals - I can't think of any.

This is the National Historic Ships Register Definition What is a replica? A replica is a vessel which has been built from scratch as a copy of a vessel. It should not be confused with a historic vessel undergoing major works which has been ‘reconstructed’ - returned to a known earlier state with the introduction of new material. In some cases, a historic vessel may be subject to ‘extreme reconstruction’ where the majority of the original material is decayed or missing, resulting in a major rebuild using new materials. Different types of replication: - True Replica An exact and complete reproduction of the original vessel. - Hull Replica An exact replica of the hull of a vessel, but not the rig. - Operational Replica An accurate replica which has adaptations to meet modern-day health and safety, MCA and international regulations in order to allow the vessel to operate within carefully defined parameters. - Hypothesis A theoretical vessel based on archaeological, historical and technical information which can test theories but which cannot be guaranteed as a faithful recreation. - Operational Hypothesis A theoretical vessel based on archaeological, historical and technical information but with adaptations to meet modern-day health and safety, MCA and international regulations in order to allow the vessel to operate within carefully defined parameters. - Representation A vessel which draws on known features from the craft it has been designed to represent, but which may or may not take on the appearance of a specific vessel. The emphasis is on overall impression rather than accuracy. For more information on replica terminology or to see examples of the different types of replication, you can order a copy of the National Historic Ships’ guidance publication Conserving Historic Vessels. When registering a vessel for inclusion on the UK Replica List, you will be asked to make an assessment as to which category of replication the vessel falls into, using the above headings. There is a replica or representation of a 'Duker' around currently at the bottom of my garden

You need two of these of the correct size. https://www.asap-supplies.com/us/brands/bowman/end-caps

I came across some fat boats being built or fitted out in the midlands recently that had a hull draught of about 20 inches but then to accommodate a larger propeller there was a vertical step down to the skeg of about 6 inches to hold the base of the rudder. The prop shaft was then below the centre height of the swim. As these boats probably weigh in excess of 20 tons anyone taking the boat from a low pound into a lock would rip the cill right off and wouldn't know about until it was too late. On the one I saw out of the water there was not any attempt at a lead in to the skeg.

I think the debate to my suggestion that 'continuous cruisers' is a misnomer and has been well illustrated by the various responses. I have no objective to anyone boating on the waterways, being on any type of craft, new or old, fat or thin, tatty or shiny or to anyone living on the waterways if they like to do that. Cruising has always meant navigating for pleasure as long as I can remember which is now in excess of 50 years. Didn't it used to be called a pleasure boat licence? Normally I would navigate 6 days out of 7 and with an object of a particular route or destination and I would consider myself as 'cruising'. I am absolutely happy with genuine continuous cruisers however far they travel in a particular period. I do object to the term being used by the OP (probably unaware of the issues that it brings) as a method of avoiding having a mooring and people playing cat and mouse with CaRT rules and the resulting work they have to do in monitoring the system. On a recent trip I met at least 6 boat recorders around the system all of which cost money that could be better spent on maintaining the system.

So ALDGATE has escaped from the Rochdale?

I found this recently on the T and M. 14 day moorings with rings all full except for one small space we could just squeeze into but only one of the ten boats had anyone on board and many were visibly locked from the outside. Whilst this may technically within the current rules I don't consider this acceptable. I have always interpreted the 14 day rule as a concession if you have to go home unexpectedly, have a breakdown or have to weekend a boat home. Each annual licence holder should be given say 6 '14 day permits ' allowing you to stay a while on a journey otherwise make it 48 hours anywhere. Could be easily enforced using a scratch off and display system. The permits could be handed out with the licence. Nobody likes all this bureaucracy but if nothing is done the system will be ruined for everybody

They should get rid of this much misused term continuous cruisers. I accept that some people have the time/money to 'cruise' that is to boat around the system most of the time for pleasure which is fine. It seems to me that the vast majority of CC licence holders are not in this camp. Rather they are avoiding the costs of owning a boat by abusing CaRT’s liberal attitude to towpath mooring causing a nuisance to everyone else on the system. No doubt that in years to come as many of these old boats become abandoned 'normal' boaters will end up picking up the cost of the removal of all these old boats. Having paid mooring fees for some 30 years I am beginning to reset the attitude that it now seems acceptable to work the system to avoid paying under the guise of doing something they are not. CaRT should alter their licencing system to one where you have to show you have a proper mooring before you get an annual licence or demonstrate that you have been genuinely cruising for at least a year or only be offered a one month licence.

I would not go anywhere near a boat of this age/type for the reasons stated above. Refitting and old boat unless it has some historic or other significance is a money pit and will not be worth anything more when completed. The amount of work required is huge, time consuming and expensive even if you have the skills to do it all yourself. The amount of work needed is always much more than you think and you need facilities to do it. I have spent over a year of equivalent time refitting a boat of a similar age and have all the facilities on hand to do it. Much better to buy a decent boat that needs maybe just a little TLC. The costs of licensing, insurance etc are the same. Better to borrow the money and pay back the loan rather than waste money trying to restore a wreck. Sorry to be so negative but I have seen so many people make such an expensive mistake and as been stated previously boatyards are full of them. If you have to pay for expensive repairs(and they all are) you will soon end up paying more than the boat is worth. M

Dave How many boats are still stuck on the Rochdale? We left by the Eastern route the Tuesday after the Rally and made it back to Brinklow in 9 days despite the many broken paddles on the Calder and Hebble. Mike

I am thinking of doing a detour to Huddersfield on my way to Hebden Bridge. CaRT quote the maximum depth as 2'6" which seems a bit low for a broad northen canal and certainly much less than the original design specs.. Anyone taken a 3' draught boat up there recently? Sorry about the typo I meant Broad Canal

It is simple. No mooring equals no long term licence. No licence go away. It works on the Wey and Basingstoke. Genuine CCers would just need to find a cheap base somewhere and it would be relatively fair as they are using the system so much more. Anything else and we are heading to total gridlock.

Take the pencil injectors out and leave it for a while then turn it over.(disconnect wire from fuel pump to stop any fuel flow) If you get water shooting out of any of the injector holes you have water in the bores. could be Water from exhaust (unlikely if covered) Head Gasket Pin hole in cylinder liner -you must use a bubble formation reducing (SCR) antifreeze in these engines

I agree with this. There were lots of waterside moorings that were empty as I passed along this route. Maybe they are trying to clear them out for some reason. I would also prefer a bankside mooring to a marina but I don't know how CaRT can justify these marina prices to tie up to the towpath with no facilities unless they are assuming they are in fact 'residential' something marinas might not accept.

On a recent cruise up the Oxford ,Coventry and T and M canals we stopped at quite a few 14 day moorings (usually piled with rings and deep) and most were full but some had a gap for our smallish boat. The thing I have noticed is that most of the boats were empty, locked up when we arrived and the same when we left so they didn't appear lived on. Have people now decided in bulk not to have a permanent mooring and are using the continuous cruising model just moving the boat a little distance every 14 days near to where they ilive? I can see why they might in the light of the numbers of people living on boats and the positive encouragement of CaRT on their website. It does seem to be a receipe for complete chaos and the eventual loss of these 14 day moorings going to 48 hours or something.

Looks like a Dutch steel cruiser from the 60's or 70's with some sections already overplated. Probably constructed of 4mm steel originally with some overplating already looking at the outside pics. As has been said much better to go over it with a big hammer now from the outside while it is out of the water. Surveyors used to do this to my boats years ago and it is suprising how soon you can tell if there is a problem by the sound. If it sounds 'dead' rather than a nice ring it indicates a problem and it will also separate the scale from the metal. Much better to find out now than later. You could also drill some small holes to check the thickness and get the welder to plug them up when he comes. Good luck with your project.

Did you have a survey? If not I would work out how thick the hull is before doing anything else. It could be anything between surface rust and terminal. You can buy an ultrasonic thickness gauge from ebay for about £50. Scan the whole hull from inside. Sounds like an old boat if it has a wood top.

You might be alright on navigating the Lee, Regents Canal and Paddinton arm put unless things have changed you will not get far up the GU (harefield?) and probably will not get up the Brent section of the GU unless there is a good flow on the river and getting near the bank to moor is anybody's guess. Depending on the shape of the superstucture you may also have problems with some bridgeholes. Bear in mind London is now a boat park not to be recommended unless you have a permanent mooring which are almost impossible to find for a boat of that size. Also bear in mind when navigating a vessel of this cross section anything above about 2mph will cause so much backflow you are likely to upset other people a lot.

Why not buy a small boat in France - all the locks are worked for you or you get a remote control for automatic lock? Much cheaper btw.

There was a picture of my tug White Heather that appeared in waterways world many years ago at the top of Norwood GU locks. It seemed to be painted in a darkish blue and yellow with a logo on the funnel which was either BTC or BTW with a circle around it. Unfortunately a haven't kept my copies of WW and I am sure it was before ww was in colour. Someone with a photographic memory may remember it? Being local it may well have been painted up and used at the exhibition.

I would never put 2 pack coating on anything with bitumen on it. bitumen is oil based and epoxy just doesn't stick to it. It acts as a great release agent. I did try this many years ago and the bitumen residue made the epoxy go brittle over time, crack and fall off. Technology may have changed this over the years. If you use the boat a lot and it gets scraped often then I would just use bitumen and do it every couple of years. If you are going to be a continuous moorer 2 pack is the way to go as it will not be disolved by oil on the water and not damaged so will last a long time.

This is just a plea to point out the problems caused by the practice of some boat owners who run engines in gear whilst moored up. Having a deep drafted boat I can often feel when we pass a boat/place where this has happened. Usually this is only a minor problem and not that common but a trip was thwarted this year after grounding on massive bar built up on a narrow stretch of the Staffs and Worcs canal leaving much less than 3' in the channel and a 'hole' at the bank a little way along nearly 4' deep against the piling. This must have happened over a period of time and not a few minutes. Also noticeable on the Oxford Canal where there are some Winter moorings. Not only is this bad for the waterway but the channel is lost and it is against the bylaws. Once deeper boats start moving the channel starts to be cleared but it needs time for this to happen.