Giant

Tom Pudding tug and sections to go with it: http://www.alanpease.co.uk/boats/hatfield.html

I would be giving the surveyor a call and asking why he had to leave suddenly, and when he'll be back to do the job. And if the answer was not highly satisfactory I would then be finding a proper surveyor. The chalking is not just about recording the measurements, it's about recording the locations they were taken so that a plan can then be drawn up. Be very suspicious of surveys that seem to involve only a regular grid of measurements. A proper job involves a whole lot of whacking with a hammer and listening to get a sense of where the metal may be thin, and measurements taken accordingly. That all takes time.

Steve, You are correct in assessing that there is a certain amount of apprehension on these forums about any tidal waters, given the focus on inland boating. What I think some are still trying to get across is that the tides in the Severn estuary should stand out even in the mind of an experienced seagoing sailor. The tidal range is the second highest in the world, behind only the Bay of Fundy. It can extend sometimes to as much as 15 metres. I came in to Sharpness on a seagoing sailing ship on a 10 metre tide a couple of years ago and it was a sobering experience. The current was still roaring along at several knots barely a couple of minutes before the very brief window of slack water. There is very little margin for error. Do the trip as you choose, just be aware that the Severn is the K2 of tides.

Interesting thoughts on corrosion. This doesn't seem to be an engine that's sat around for decades - everything suggests it was last running around 3 years ago, and then sat around outside for about 12-18 months before we bought it and put it under cover. There certainly has been water in the system though, as we found quite a bit in the bottom of the sump when we scooped out a jamjar's worth to look at this weekend, and there was also an odd smell out of the crankcase when we first opened it - I'm guessing from microbial growth. An obvious route for water entry would be the port for the oil return hose, which had been sitting open exposed to the rain. There was no immediate appearance of white metal fragments in that sample, but Wren is going to poke at it in the lab and see what shows up. I'm concerned that we will now have spread this water around by turning the engine over, but I don't understand the oil pumping system well enough to know. I'm guessing we may want to empty the sump and try to flush out the system with new oil as soon as we can.

My guess would be they are thinking of the 1995 Act.

That came simply from the fact that I quoted the recommendation for our Victron unit. Would you expect the necessary fuse rating to differ that much between inverters of the same rating? They're all going to draw about the same amount of DC current to supply 3kW AC, give or take a few % of efficiency.

The manual for our Victron 3kW unit specifies a 400A fuse.

Sure, but this engine was built in 1952 and even our other one, a very late JP build at 1957, still has the castellated ones. So what I'm thinking is that the big end bearings have probably been replaced at least once in its life. Given that the end float seems to be within spec, I wonder if the mains were done too. Grebe: we certainly won't be reusing the nylocks, and I think I'd rather replace them with the original castellated nuts and locking pins from engine #1, although will need to take into account the stuff in this thread.

We went over to have a quick poke around the bottom of engine #2 today, only briefly as it was towards the end of the day, but should be back soon. Levering the crank back and forward with a bar and measuring the play with a DTI, we get an end float of just under 0.010". Will need to come back with more leverage to try and lift the flywheel. Didn't get a big end off yet as the engine is up against a wall at the moment so didn't have good access to the bolts at the other side. Interestingly though, all the big end bearings are retained by modern nylock nuts, rather than the original castellated ones. It looks like this bottom end may have had some work done already.

Sorry don't mind me, I was thinking completely the wrong way round for a moment there. Of course the bigger boat with space for big prop needs the reduction more, not less.

Also: Andy, the JP and Blackstone box are usually used with a 2:1 or 3:1 reduction box after it.. Even our installation, on a big Sheffield size boat with 29" prop, is using the 2:1 box. I'd be very surprised if you could fit a prop that would work well at a 1:1 output.

If one of you has the dimensions handy, I am doing a bit of CNC mill/lathe work at the moment and might be able to supply a dummy fairly easily.

The BetaGen 7 might be a bit oversized as a generator. It's a 7.2kW unit and that battery charger will only ever use up to 1.5kW. Even with some other loads running at the same time you'd probably never be getting anywhere near that rating. If you were specifically after a 1500rpm unit from a noise and lifetime/reliability perspective then it's true you won't find one much smaller than that (Whisper Power do a 5.7kW that's about the smallest I've seen), but in practice you may be running a fairly big engine unnecessarily.

What happens to the rather permanently installed houseboats already there?

I suspect that's got far more to do with specification and economics than safety. Were there ever many seagoing boats using the JP in the first place? The JP2/JP3 seem to have been a pretty optimal fit for chugging narrowboats and smaller barges around at low speed. Those craft were all limited in size by the waterways, and in speed by legal & practical speed limits on the canals, as well as the economics of fuel. For seagoing craft, those carrying cargo would generally be sized much bigger than the JP range covered, and I would guess that those in other roles would mostly be looking for more speed/power than a 20-30hp engine could supply. Although there are the 4 and 6 cylinder versions kicking around, they seem pretty rare and mostly show up in larger barges.

Unfortunately, last we looked they had removed the very handy one-page PDFs of upcoming tide times for particular locations. Now you have to go through the app or the fancy web based map widget, neither of which are much help for just printing a reference to stick on the notice board.

Yours for only £250K! http://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=366492

I think the fact that so many JPs are still going after 50+ years, even when knackered and long overdue for a rebuild, says it all really. Simple, heavily built design with not that much to go wrong and very tolerant of abuse? Sounds like exactly what you want at sea.

Have a look at their "For Sale" page to see the wheelhouse they have put on Chaceley. http://www.noatun.co.uk/for-sale/ Wouldn't fancy trying to skipper it!

Alright, thoughts noted. We will start with having a closer look at the bottom end of #2 then.

We are embarking on our next project, and are starting this thread to record progress, seek advice, and of course most important of all: to entertain you all with photos and stupid questions. The concept is simple: take two Lister JP3Ms, both in dubious condition, and end up with a decent one installed in the boat, doing as much of the work as possible ourselves. The reality will no doubt be long and complicated. Our boat is a Sheffield size Humber keel, she had a JP3M fitted when built in 1953 and the engine room is in original condition (to the extent we don't think it's really been cleaned since then...) Engine #1 This is the engine currently in the boat, serial number 473JPMP7, built 1957 (so must have replaced the original engine at some stage). We had a long thread on here about this engine when we first bought the boat and were preparing her for a sea passage. We rebuilt the top end including cleaning up & skimming the heads, regrinding valves & seats, injectors rebuilt by Peter Slater, renewed all gaskets, redid the fuel system, and cleaned out a great deal of rust & mud from the water passages in the block. The block however has an old frost crack to the water jacket on the port side, and some hairline cracks propagating from there. It has been this way for probably 20 years, the crack is rusted up and doesn't leak, and despite some hairlines running in the direction of the crankcase there has never been any sign of leakage between water and oil. Nonetheless, we would prefer to replace this block as it's a permanent source of worry. It also makes a nasty banging we've been advised is due to worn main bearings. You can hear it in the video above. It happens every second shaft revolution, so probably aligning with either the compression or power stroke of one of the cylinders but I've never really been able to identify which it lines up with. In short, the top end is good but the bottom end really wants a rebuild, and either a replacement block or major welding / metal stitching work. Despite all this it runs OK and we have been out on the Humber, the Blackwater and the Thames with it when we've had to move the boat. Engine #2 We got lucky about 18 months ago and bought this engine (serial 15573JPM2, built 1952) from a boatyard that was closing down. They had removed it a year or so earlier from a barge that was replacing it with a newer engine. As far as we know it was in running condition when removed - it turns over and gets compression - but we know nothing beyond that about its condition or history, and it seems unlikely it would have been replaced if running OK. We built a frame on an old MOD bomb trolley to take it away and have been keeping it in storage under a good tarp, visiting now and again to check on it and turn it over. Up until now we haven't been able to spend any time working on it beyond that. It's missing the water manifold, but we can take that from #1 along with the rest of the top end which we already overhauled and know to be good. It's got a 3:1 reduction box rather than the 2:1 we have & need, so that 3:1 box will be up for grabs when we're done if anyone wants it. Everything else seems to be present. The flywheel has the ring gear which #1 lacks, and after some digging round the yard we even got the starter motor. In short, it's a mystery engine that has some bodges on it and may well be knackered. That said, we ultimately only really need the block - which appears to be sound - anything else is a bonus. The plan The first step is to try and fire up #2 and see if and how it runs. In the unlikely case that it runs perfectly, we would probably just go ahead and put it in the boat after transferring some already-overhauled parts from #1. More likely, we will need to do some other work to get a good runner before doing that. Worst case, we will end up stripping down both engines and choosing the best parts from each to use in a full rebuild. We are not trying to achieve perfect factory condition as offered by the likes of Martyn & Geoff - just a working engine that we can take out on the river with reasonable confidence. We'd like to do as much as we can ourselves, although obviously if it comes to things like grinding crankshafts and remaking bearings, those will be going away to the professionals. This isn't motivated by saving money, but rather that we've found we both like working on engines! First steps & questions We are currently putting together a plan for all the plumbing we will need to set up to run engine #2 out of the water on its trolley. Fuel and water supplies seem fairly obvious but we're less sure about a temporary solution for the oil tank. Would a simple container and an inline oil filter of the right grade suffice, if everything is placed at the right heights, or are there pitfalls to watch for here? We'd rather not remove the tank that's currently fitted to the boat with engine #1. Our other main question at the moment is: given a JP3M in unknown condition, what obscure things might be wrong that could actually cause damage if we try to start/run it? Aside from basic visual checks, turning over, checking compression and changing the oil, is there anything you would investigate more carefully before trying it?

Good news indeed. Anyone know what they're carrying?

Yep that's the one, looking north towards that bridge from the path at the back of what was the Abbey Rd retail park.

Why is this story accompanied by a photo of Barking Creek? I can assure you that you won't get mugged in the spot the photo was taken, given that it's been an empty building site for a couple of years now.

They tend to perform poorly in comparison tests against more modern designs, in terms of holding power for their weight. Also they're awkward to stow as they don't go neatly up a hawse pipe or whatever. My conclusion was there's not much wrong with them if sized appropriately though. Ours is something like 75-100kg.