howardang

Try looking on Canal Junction web site under Boat surveyors, North west Edited to add correct link Howard https://www.canaljunction.com/boat/surveyors.htm

It might be worth pointing out that a total loss is when a vessel is actually lost. I think what people are mentioning about total loss is actually what is called ‘Constructive total loss’ where a vessel is recovered but repairs and rebuilding etc. to the vessel will cost more than the insured value. That is a situation well understood in the marine industry. it doesn’t help your unfortunate situation but it helps to understand the difference between CL and CTL. Howard

I can give you an example. Most canals are saucer shaped in underwater profile so displaced water may flow between two passing boats because there isn't enough room for it all to flow down the side nearest the bank. Howard

I would gently remind you that this part of the topic was about the interaction between two vessels when passing and overtaking, which as you know is not just about about suction. That does play its part in causing collisions of course, and hitting the bank etc. but so does excessive speed, slow reaction on the tiller etc. , lack of steerer’s experience and shallow water. Howard

As the bows approach each other they are repelled and swing away from each other, but as the boats continue to pass the stern swings inwards because of this swing with two possible issues. One, the bow of one or both boats can strike the bank and two, the sterns can swing towards each other because of the reduced pressure caused by Bernoulli's effect caused by the boats passing each other in close proximity and If not corrected this swing can (and does) cause collisions. Its indirectly referred to in your extract from the MGN above towards the end of (iii) and I think it is spoken about in 4, although I haven’t got it in front of me at the moment. There are many tutorial videos available on YouTube which also show this. Howard

It is not being debated by me. For some reason I notice from time to time that there are members on this forum who seem to think that canal boats behave differently to other marine craft, which of course is patently not the case, but they will argue their case until they are blue in the face. Howard

I have read it in detail and many other similar warnings. I am more than aware of the interaction between two vessels, and I have been familiar with the phenomenon professionally for more years than I care to remember, both on large and smaller vessels, on rivers, canals, both in this country and abroad, and also as a dockmaster controlling shipping in large port, where vigilance is very necessary to avoid accidents. MGN 199 clearly warns mariners that this effect can occur both when overtaking and also when passing, especially in narrow waterways or at excessive speed, and I have occasionally seen the result when the warning was disregarded. As far as I am concerned it is not really a subject for argument or interpretation; it is too well know in professional marine circles. Howard

Interaction is a very common and well known phenomenon. If you read the MCA Notice below (link below) you will see more information which you may find useful. The link is the MGN issued by the MCA on this subject, and I'm afraid it is fact, not something that can be disputed. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mgn-199-dangers-of-interaction Howard

As Blackrose has said, it is extremely an well know effect and happens between two vessels when underway and passing close to one another. It is caller Interaction. Google “Interaction between ships”. Howard

Thank you for your well reasoned and detailed response. If you consider my remarks a sign of impatience that is clearly your opinion. Others may disagree. This is a forum where views can and do vary and we will just have to differ in this instance. Howard

Maybe your right but he made the time to ask the question so he could give the forum the courtesy of the same amount of time to acknowledge the responses. In some circles this is know as good manners. Howard

I agree that this is an example of, at best, bad manners, but I’m afraid that it may just be another example of sheer bad manners which are becoming more and more common these days. Howard

How keen are you to buy this boat? In my view an old survey is not worth taking a chance with. Surveys are out of date almost as soon as they are done, and if the seller is adamant to refuse a proper hull survey, I would walk away from it with the provision that if he has a change of heart then to get in touch with you. Its your money that is at risk, not his. If, however, you absolutely are willing to forego this hull survey then that is your decision and your risk. It’s up to you. Howard

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but as you will have noticed, asking for a view on a legal boating subject on this forum always generates a number of answers from well meaning members , few, if any I suspect are actually in the legal profession, some views differing from others and usually with no firm conclusion one way or another (and after a period these type of questions inevitably lead to topic drift away from the issue which actually concerns you. I would suggest that if you need legal advice which might lead to more formal action, a forum is the last place to get it. You really need to get a proper legal opinion, not a number of views, opinions and counter opinions, none of which will be sufficient to form a basis for you to take any action. Howard

Barges on the River Hull among other places, used to travel backwards up the river on a flood tide, using the same technique. They often used their anchor as a weight, lowered until it just touched bottom, giving flow over the rudder and allowing the barge to be sheered thereby steered round bends. Sometimes referred to as “drudging”. Howard

Only joking, honest! Howard

Here we go again🫤 Howard

I did one for the Pocklington Canal trip bat a few years ago. However, we used actual people rather than weights which made the process much easier. I have also been involved in doing an Inclining Experiment (a more elaborate version of the test) for a couple of ships and in both cases we used a Fork Lift to move the weights around. Luckily both vessels had car decks which was useful in making the whole process very straight forward. Howard

Like many others here I do not use Facebook and I see that this is a link to somewhere via Facebook. Any chance of just posting the link for the ones who do not use FN? Howard

I wonder if the OP is under the impression that this forum is a service which can tackle issues, because he doesn't seem to get the point that asking advice here, however helpful, is not the same as approaching a commercial organisation to get the job done? That is a very kind offer to visit the boat but as you suggest it could drag you in to something that you might regret. Howard

I agree and have already offered similar advice. I suspect, however, that the OP is working to a tight budget. Certainly, asking for advice on a forum such as this is certainly taking pot luck about the correctness of any such advice he will get. I have been on this forum for many years and yet I have no idea who the greatest majority of members are, so the only mention of any of their experience and knowledge is what they themselves mention. I would be very cautious about taking action based on some advice without knowing the background and expertise of anyone giving me advice. Howard

Not at all, but take advice and assistance BEFORE buying a boat, and learn something about boats and how they work etc. Howard

With respect, I would have thought that it would been obvious by now in the many responses you have received, that no one from this forum appears to be willing to visit the boat, never mind taking it under their wing. This is a forum for enthusiasts not a place necessarily where you can find someone to sort out your problems. You need to find a professional local to the boat, and no one has sugggested anyone so far so repeating this request is not getting you anywhere. It is noticeable that you have not answered the question about whether you have a current bss for the boa5 which suggests to me that you don’t and therefore the boat cant be used on CRT waters. i am sorry to be so negative but you appear to have multiple issues with the boat which will inevitably cost significant amounts of cash, and you need to accept this. Howard

Exactly my point, and while I am sympathetic to the dilemma of the OP I suggest that this is not the sort of problem boat that can be put right by picking brains on a forum such as this, despite the undoubted accumulated knowledge that can be found here. Tony Brooks makes a point about the boat in question - " I suspect the boat may be well known in the local area and that is why the OP can't get anyone to show interest." I think he may well be correct. We might be more helpful if we could suggest someone who could go to the boat and see the issues involved, rather than plucking up helpful technical solutions out of thin air. Howard

I would be agreeably surprised if the OP is knowledgeable about the BSS requirements, and looking at the state of the engine it appears to me that if that is indicative of the rest of the vessel, the boat needs a detailed viewing by someone who knows what they are doing. I do hope the OP can find a suitable person to give the boat a detailed look to see what, if anything needs to be dome and he is going to be prepared for spending money to get things sorted, if that is indeed possible. I suspect that this is a great example of buying a cheap boat to save money and having to spend a great deal to put things right. Forums like this, in my view, are not where he should be concentrating his efforts, but I would be interested to hear how things are resolved. Howard