Tony1

April 10

I know a couple of people who continuously cruise and who use Expost, and it seems to work ok for normal mail and smallish parcels- but it appears that DVLA will no longer accept an Expost address, so for your driving license you'll still need to use the address of a good friend or a family member.

April 6

Just a thought, but that nasty fuel will also be going into your Eberspacher, which might not be great?

I'd be tempted to get the lot pumped out and disposed of, rinse out the tank a bit and refill it with new clean fuel plus a shock treatment of marine 16.

Over the summer you can keep it frequently topped up and free of bug, and cruise knowing you're not doing the engine any harm etc.

I had a bout of it in winter 21/22, but after that I keep it topped up every 2 weeks when the fuel boat visited (sometimes only 20-30 litres), and touch wood its been great since.

Its odd that it seemed to get worse after you installed the inspection hatch...

April 6

On 02/04/2024 at 18:32, n-baj said:

also I’ve just heated up a sample and after producing a little steam the diesel turned clear

I think you've just invented a new cocktail there Mr Baj- try it as a chaser, with a slice of lemon and some tonic.

I'm afraid I cant moor next to you any more in case my boat catches the bug from yours.

February 27

14 minutes ago, IanD said:

Having said that the side of the basin next to the car-park seems to attract some dodgy-looking characters at night, and the (bright!) lights stay on all night so you need light-tight curtains in your bedroom

The "hairpins" -- if they have space, there wasn't much when we were there and the boats didn't look like "visitors" either -- are hidden out the back and completely open to the public (i.e. scroats) but with little foot traffic, unlike the main basin, which makes them less attractive to moor a boat there since there are no eyes on it.

When I visited, I saw one or two 'private mooring' signs on the car park side of the basin, so I didnt bother going over there. But it sounds as if the whole basin is now effectively out of bounds to visitors.

On the plus side, at least we still have the hairpin moorings, which is a lot better than nothing at all, and I'll certainly give them a try, and just try to ignore any young scrotes that might hang about. And with all the other boats there, at least there is a degree of safety in numbers.

But I can't understand how some boats seem to get away with staying there for weeks on end. I wonder if the local boaters know the precise days that Peel check on the moored boats? I've seen a few CRT places where local boaters play the system a bit, moving away from a mooring on the day before the local spotter comes, and moving back on the following day. I reckon a fair bit of that goes on at places like Nantwich, for example.

February 27

18 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Peal don't make money out of visitors, they do by letting moorings, they are a business. If you owned a caravan site would you leave a quarter of your pitches free for passing touring caravaners to use at no charge ? Its all about money.

I get that there is a financial motive for Peel in letting those half dozen or so moorings, but I wouldn't personally compare a site of national industrial heritage to a caravan site. In my view there are other obligations that should (in theory) come with managing a site like that.

They've been happy to allow visitors there for many years, after all. I can only guess that perhaps an old contractual agreement or obligation has recently expired, and they've decided to take advantage of the chance to make more money from those moorings.

If the moorings in the 'hairpins' are as unappetising as people have said, then it changes the whole prospect for boaters visiting Manchester. But not too many people tend to care about the access rights for boaters.

And let's be honest, if we were in Peel's shoes, yes- most of us would probably take that same opportunity to make more profit when the chance arose.

But that doesn't stop it being a real shame, and a crappy move to pull on boaters.

February 27

13 hours ago, IanD said:

There are no visitor moorings in the basin any more thanks to Peel, but there are in the "hairpins" the other side of the railway viaduct.

Sorry to bang on, but I wanted to make sure I'm 100% clear on the situation.

Have Peel officially stopped visitors from mooring in the 'basin' itself (i.e. the arm that extends past the Wharf pub and runs for a few hundred yards)?

Or were there visitor moorings, but they were fully occupied?

I visited last May and as you passed the Wharf there was a line of boats that seemed to be long-term moorers, but there were still a couple of hundred yards of that arm available for visitor mooring. I would guess that it would hold maybe 7 or 8 boats.

If they've since been given to long term moorers that would be a major blow to visitors.

There seem to be a couple of people reporting that currently, the only 'official' Peel-sanctioned visitor moorings are in those 'hairpin' arms under the railway viaduct.

Those seemed to be mostly full of long term moorers last summer, so I'm not optimistic about finding a visitor spot if that's the only option.

There is supposed to be a water tap and refuse bins there, but I couldn't see the bins when I walked past, and there was a boat moored at the water point.

You could always go up through the first of the locks, there were a couple of boats there and it looked decent enough. But its probably not as safe (or as pleasant) as the basin itself, which is well lit and closely overlooked by apartments etc.

I can hardly believe they would restrict visitor access so much- that's a really crappy move to pull.

February 25

I've been seeing exactly the same issue when accessing the site via email notifications (when I click on the 'go to this post' button)- its been happening both on my phone and my laptop for at least the last few weeks- in fact it may be a couple of months.

Its a minor annoyance but obviously it would be preferable to not have it happen.

The error message does vary though- on the laptop it says this:

url7653.canalworld.net’s server IP address could not be found.

Try:

Checking the connection
Checking the proxy, firewall and DNS configuration
Running Windows Network Diagnostics

ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED

February 19

On 17/02/2024 at 16:27, Manxcat54 said:

I haven't mentioned which batteries I am using ?

I hope you don't give up on the forum yet, it is incredibly useful on a huge range of issues and its worth persisting with.

I do agree with you that in some cases new posters are treated rudely by some of the members, but I don't think what happened to you was a case of that.

I would ask you to put yourself in the position of the posters here- you made an initial statement about wanting to keep things as simple as possible, and said you thought Victron kit looked a bit too fancy etc. These sorts of phrases would give a very strong impression that you were leaning towards lead acids, which is why a few folks made that assumption. The fact that nobody even suggested lithium clearly shows that everyone here assumed you wouldn't even be interested in considering them. I did myself, and I'm honestly trying to be even handed in saying all this.

The thing is that lithium batteries are still unusual enough that if someone plans to use them, they will nearly always state that specifically in their very first post, as it is such a fundamental factor in determining the reply. So they were not being foolish or presumptuous in assuming you wanted lead acids. It was you who gave the impression of wanting lead acids.

Then later, when you wrote that phrase I've quoted above, people took umbrage.

Their view on it will be that if lithium was your thing, you needed to be clear about that up front, and not waste people's time by having them write detailed responses. So it is them who have a case for getting a bit tetchy, not you.

If you had said "I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I want lithiums", the whole thing would have stayed on track and you would have gotten as much info as you could ever want about the various options.

But they got annoyed because your response above gave the impression that they were somehow wrong to reply based on an assumption- when it was you who left out the key fact they needed to know.

It was a simple but key misunderstanding, as we often get because text doesn't convey nuance etc.

Your specific reply above came across as being overly tetchy and entitled, and I'm sure that's not the case- but they then responded with annoyance, as anyone would who is trying to help but then gets implied criticism from the person they are helping.

The forum can be incredibly helpful, but there is an expectation that people receiving advice will be polite and responsive to clarifying questions, if only from gratitude for the time being freely given to them- and although I really don't like to add to a general 'pile-on', the hard fact is that your phrase above was not helpful or polite, and it triggered much of the hostility.

Anyway, despite the rocky start, I hope things haven't gotten too unpleasant that you never visit again.

There are some posters who do jump on newbies who use certain trigger phrases, but I honestly don't think that happened here, and I hope we can move on and rebuild bridges etc.

February 14

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I reckon with a bit of work a 2 cyl 4 stroke outboard could be modified to make a really nice silent generator.

I've half a memory if it being mentioned on here that there are kits (or at least, parts) that can be fitted to some outboards, which enable you to get more charging current from the outboard than it would normally supply.

But that's never going to be a game changer, surely? If you're going to burn over half a litre of petrol in an hour, you'd want more than 15 or 20Ah of charge in the batteries to show for it. Even a small genny will give you maybe 30 or 40Ah of charge over an hour- although that would probably run louder than a honda outboard at tickover.

February 14

33 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

It's nearly always rainwater after a long period of neglect that sinks 'em.

So am I right in thinking that if you use an outboard, the entirety of the hull below the waterline need not have any holes in it at all? It seems a very sensible way to arrange things. Why have prop shafts and bow thrusters going through the hull if you don't need to?

And if you keep the rain out (and avoid passing hire boats cracking the hull) then it will essentially stay afloat forever...

I'm curious about this because my longer term plan, once I've done the canal system a couple of times, is to downsize to a 32ft GRP and buy a motorhome.

Spend April to Sept CCing on the GRP, then have it hauled out and stood in the corner of a boatyard for the winter- at which point I can take off to Scotland in the motorhome just when the midges are dying out, and then maybe spend the coldest three months travelling in southern Europe.

Come back to blighty for a month in Wales (or maybe in Ireland, although I hear vehicle ferries are ruinously expensive). Get back to the boatyard in early April, get the old GRP gal put back onto the water, and get cruising again.

I'm thinking that having a 32ft GRP stored on the hard for 6 months would be cheaper than paying marina berthing rates (and it removes the risk of damage during the increasingly frequent storms we're getting), AND I can claim back 6 months worth of CRT license fee to help pay for the lift out and storage costs.

February 14

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think you are conflating the inbuilt tank on small outboard which probably has only a couple of litres, with the big steel 'un fitted' tanks that sit on the deck and are connected to the outboard by a rubber hose, these are commonny 4 or 5 gallons (up to 30 litres) and these would be counted as part of the 'non-fitted tanks (maximum of two storage tanks) and part of the total volume of petrol stored (30 litres max)

Ah, I see. They don't normally show the 'portable' tank on the website sales pages...

So yes, petrol would be a little bit of a nuisance if you stick to the rules, but its still not a dealbreaker by any means. I use the ebike to do several trips each week anyway to shops and other local places, so a few visits to a local petrol station wouldn't be too onerous.

February 14

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought this covered that point ?

The phrase 'built in fuel tank' would seem to include the petrol tank that is built into the outboard motor itself, surely?

I personally would interpret it that petrol within that tank is not counted as 'storage', in the same way that 10 litre jerrycans are?

Some of those outboard tanks can hold about 20 litres, so with 20 more litres in jerrycans, thats not a bad total to cruise with.

February 14

39 minutes ago, magnetman said:

That would be ironic as GRP is a problem material. Just look how many end of life GRP Boats end up cluttering waterways. It is hard to dispose of. Taking the Thames as an example there are plenty of waste GRP Boats on weirs and in random other places. Its a real problem.

Aluminium would I think be better.

I'm looking forward to the rise of GRP boats. It may that electric-engined GRP boats will become respectable and highly desirable among the elite of the waterways boating world.

I do hope they change the current rule whereby to get a GRP you have to be an aggressive and antisocial alcoholic.

I can do the alcoholic bit, its all the shouting at strangers that I'd struggle with.

PS - Hey I'm just kidding, GRP lads. I love the things! 😁

PPS - I always thought a GRP hull would last 100 years if not damaged? The half-sunk ones you see knocking about aren't necessarily half sunk because they're GRP- more likely because they're neglected.

February 14

21 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I am quite intrigued about this. I think the Honda 10 has a 12 amp charging coil. I have not done any experiments with the 10 on the shopping launch but it may be that this charge comes out even at tickover. The engine itself is remarkably quiet and frugal running at tickover so IF it was feasible to pull 10 amps at say 14v it could be quite an interesting generator.

Not sure how they react to long run times at tickover it may be a bad idea but these small Honda twin outboards do seem to be remarkably good power units. I would like to experiment with one as a standalone generator perhaps with a permanent magnet alternator on the top.

Quiet, clean and water cooled.

I think for very low electricity users (e.g. those who don't use a fridge in winter, etc), 12 amps might make a decent contribution.

But as great as those Honda motors are, with my setup it would be of limited use (although it would be nice to know it was helping with the battery charge when cruising).

If you were moored up for a few days in winter, I would imagine there are much more efficient ways to use your petrol to create electricity- e.g. a small genny?

If I ever do go down the GRP route, I think a genny will be essential.

As an aside, for boaters like yourself who might possibly still be afloat in about 25 years from now (i.e. after the 2050 ban on IC engines), maybe GRP will become the norm?

After all, you'll be able to drive a GRP along with a 10hp motor, whereas a 57ft steel narrowboat will need at least 30 hp in some places, and 30hp electric motors might be very expensive. The cost of an electric conversion at the moment is absolutely prohibitive for many boaters, especially when you consider the batteries and installation.

With a lower power motor you'll need less batteries and a much cheaper motor, so GRP boating might be the only affordable option for a lot of people. I can imagine we might see a big rise in GRP boat numbers, and the builders will be very busy.

February 14

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

I think that you would do well to calculate how much solar you can fit on the roof of such a boat. I suspect it would be nothing like 1000 watts, but could be wrong.

I imagine you're right Tony. The 32cc has a fair bit of roof space, but nothing like a narrowboat.

I'm used to having 1400 watts panels, in fact for the last two days I've averaged 1000-1300 Wh, so they are starting to deliver the goods so to speak, at least on bright days, and the days of running the engine for charging will be mostly over by the time we get properly into March.

That definitely wouldn't be the case on a 32 foot GRP.

But tbh, with some of the comments from various owners, I'm starting to question my original idea that a 32ft GRP would be easier for an older person to manage (e.g. pull it to a stop, pull into the bank against wind, tow it back or forward a few feet here and there- just those odd times when a bit of muscle is called for).

GRP seems a cheaper option, but maybe not necessarily easier to manhandle, on the occasions when that is needed.

February 14

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

It is feasible to find a Boat with a nackered inboard and Z drive then get the transom rebuilt and put an outboard on it.

Modern 4 stroke outboards are lovely and quiet and also economical but of course petrol is generally more expensive than red diesel and harder to get canalside.

I'm reading these posts with interest because in the longer term I would consider getting a viking 32cc or similar, especially if I find I'm struggling to handle a steel narrowboat.

I was thinking a GRP might be the logical choice when one starts to lose strength and mobility, but clearly there can be some issues climbing in and out of them- although having a section of the side wall cut out does seem feasible.

I like your idea of fitting an outboard, if its an old boat with an unreliable inboard diesel engine, and especially if the hull is still in very good condition etc (and the interiors could be refitted on a DIY basis if that hasn't already been done).

Diesel outboards are just too expensive, and the hassle of fetching petrol once or twice a week is a concern, but I would be using an ebike so not too much hard work involved.

And if one could fit panniers that hold a 10L jerrycan on each side, one could fetch 20 litres in a single trip.

The problem of getting a good battery charge in winter is also a concern with an outboard, so a genny would probably be needed for part of the year, depending on how much solar could be fitted. 1000 watts would go a long way to reducing reliance on a genny.

February 12

13 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

How am i supposed to stalk @Tony1 now?

Congrats on the upgrade, i remember back in the day with VBB updates often broke as much as they fixed, hope it went smooth

Strictly speaking old bean, one isn't supposed to stalk anyone.

Like many popular hobbies of the 1970s, stalking is considered a little outre these days.

But who could blame you? With me being so irresistibly handsome and charming (not to mention slim and athletic), there's not a court in the land that would convict you.

February 11

Just now, IanD said:

I think somebody's imagination was running away with them... 😉

(there's no vibration detector)

Thank Heavens, I shall ask the ladies to form an orderly queue again.

February 11

17 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Ladies and gentleman activities.

Heavens, just imagine. If one were to engage in "affairs of the heart" on the boat it could be a nightmare.

Especially with me being so handsome and charming and everything. And constantly getting pestered by lady boaters vying for my attention and wanting sexual favours.

Well I do declare. The poor B2B would be on and off all night.

Victron better get their act together or there'll be a warranty claim on their hands.

February 11

51 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The orion 50 seems to have a vibration sensor so it goes on and off with the engine.

If someone was to throttle a ferret- just as a hobby, say- is the B2B sensitive enough to pick up that sort of vibration?

A friend was asking.

He wouldn't want the B2B switching on every time he offed one of his wee beasties.

Victron will have surely thought of that.

February 11

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

The item you linked to earlier on the Offgrid Power Solutions website is described as an Orion XS, but the corresponding picture shows a "non-isolated DC/DC charger". I thought the whole point of such a unit in this application is that the two sides of the system are isolated from each other.

With the B2Bs I have, you can buy isolated or non-isolated versions.

But I would give the lithium option a bit more consideration. From what I've seen of mine, they dont need much checking or maintenance once its been set up.

It comes on as soon as the voltage in the lead acid source battery rises above a user-set level (r you can add a delay on that), and it switched off when the lead acid voltage falls below your set level, in my case I use 13.4 I think, so that it switches off within a few seconds of the engine switching off.

You can usually wire them to come on/off with the ignition of you want to, but the voltage option works well.

If I set the bulk charging voltage to about 13.8 or 13.9, the B2Bs will go into float when the lithiums are about 80-90% full, so they never get over stressed. I set the float voltage to 12.5v so effectively the charging stops once it goes into float. I'm wondering if the new B2B model might have an option not to bother with float, since its no use with lithiums anyway.

But either way, they can pretty much look after themselves once you've got them set up.

One potential problem issue not yet mentioned in this thread is you running the lithiums SoC or voltage down too low.

I use a victron BMV712 and a BEP701 switch to physically disconnect the load cables from the lithiums once the SoC or voltage gets too low, but thats another £500 cost, which is not great.

You could rely on you keeping an eye on the SoC, and ultimately the lithiums own internal BMS will disconnect them as a protection measure if you forget and run them too low.

I would hope that their BMS would let you configure that internal low voltage disconnect value, since the default set values seem a bit extreme.

But the overcharging risks can be well managed by the B2B itself, such that very little monitoring or intervention is needed by the user as part of day to day use.

February 11

48 minutes ago, MtB said:

And back here in the real world, the above is not available to the average muppet boater like me with other stuff to do with their lives. The options for us are:

1) A cheap-as-chips hybrid drop-in regulated by a long bit of wire (tolerating the tiny risk of the internal BMS failing)

2) £6k+ dropped into the coffers of Ed Shiers or similar

3) Stick with the LA bank and keep on wearing down the patience of the neighbours with excessive engine running in winter

Fourth option is to get one of those new victron B2Bs instead of a wire.

Not that cheap, but you can precisely control the charging of the lithiums and set bulk/float values so that they don't get overcharged.

I remember that a few of the more experienced contributors dropped the use of B2Bs as they were disappointed with the wastefulness and general performance of the Sterling 1260 units, but this new victron with its claimed 98% efficiency might be a great solution and help prolong the lithiums' lifespan too.

It might even meet possible future safety regs because the LA and lithiums are not directly and permanently connected?

February 11

9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Or even easier just to stick with lead acid batteries and established charging technology.

I think it will depend on budget to a large extent.

Fortunately there are middle-ground options that sit between a simple lead acid setup and a full-on £3.5k lithium installation.

Lithiums bring a lot of benefits, especially for liveaboard boaters, and people will always look for an affordable way of obtaining those benefits.

So its easy to imagine that £1300 for a 460Ah Fogstar battery plus £300 for a victron B2B might be within the range of some people.

But yes- others will not fancy that, and will prefer to stick to lead acids.

February 11

As someone who uses a bike every day for sporting purposes (i.e. to terrorise pensioners and Jack Russells on the towpath), I find these images very offensive.

(Apologies to any Jack Russells who are offended by this post. But you started it.)

February 11

10 hours ago, nicknorman said:

All this shenanigans with trying to interface a LA alternator to Li by means of heavy current electronics, when the solution is to convert the alternator to Li-friendly charging. End of problem!

Even with my limited understanding it seems clear that an alternator controller is the most efficient and elegant solution, but I don't know if its going to be cost effective for everyone.

Consider those unfortunates among us who have sub-40hp engines (such as my canaline 38), many with narrow V belt alternators that have quite modest current output (and I mean continuous output).

On top of the cost of the lithium batteries themselves, you're looking at perhaps £1200 to install one of these controllers on a domestic alternator, that can only put out say 45 amps safely on a continuous basis.

Its a lot of money to spend for such a modest output, And upgrading to a powerful alternator in some cases requires a crank upgrade to fit a poly V belt, so that adds maybe £250-300 for the alternator and maybe £500 for supply and fit of the crank upgrade. So perhaps another £800 on top of the £1200 for the Wakespeed controller?

And that's on top of the cost of the batteries themselves.

I suspect that to many folks with older or less powerful engines, it will appear just too high a cost- so its easy to see the appeal of this new victron B2B unit for that group of people.

They can still achieve their max 45-50 amp charging rate, but for only £300 - and they can probably install it themselves and save money there too.

And if they have two alternators they can get a second B2B unit and get another 40 amps charge from their canaline 38 (if they're feeling a bit brave).

I totally agree its not the best way to solve the problem, but I reckon for for a certain segment of the boating population it will look like a decent cost effective option.

The biggest question in my mind for people pondering spending a lot of cash on lithiums is- which of these charging setups will meet any potential future regulations...

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