vivelo

Sound like you have already been paying him without any bill of sale. I don't want to alarm you, but if he is just giving you receipts for the work done, all you are doing is repairing someone else's boat if you have no title for it.

The bill of sale is done by both the seller and the buyer. It contains both peoples details. It is also witnessed by an individual who has nothing to do with the sale. Its very easy to do and both should keep a copy each. Below is a link to one I use that is prewritten by the RYA. If the link doesn't work, just search/google "RYA bill of sale" and it will come up. They all should have these details on them at a minimum. https://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollectiondocuments/legal/Web Documents/Legal Leaflets/Members Advice/Bill of Sale/BILL OF SALE.pdf

Who is this builder/sales person/boat yard you are dealing with? Tell us this and maybe someone will be able to help. A lot of seller's or fixer uppers get the boats for nothing or very little if they have been left in a yard. They may have too clear back rent or the yard owner just wants it gone as its a liability. There are plenty of wrecks in yards just waiting for someone to throw money at it.

Have you paid for the boat? When buying a boat you will do a bill of sale with the seller and you want the old bill of sales before that one which will have the sellers name on it and the previous owner. History and provenance is important. If they have no history for the boat or proof of ownership, its up to you to gamble with your money. Most times there is no problems, but I went to look at a boat before Xmas in Ely and it was very cheap (£3500). I turned it down because he had no documents/price and his story was all over the place and he didn't know the boat that it has certain things fitted. After Xmas it was on eBay for £10k and in the description he says he owned it for 3 years. Big jump in price, he looked a bit rough and for all I know he could of been renting it or knew the owner was away.

I think it will be the same boat. If it was a factory finish (LOL, its not) there would be no need to hide it under mats and a broken solar panel.

The salesman thought the repair was that good that it actually left the factory looking like that! He told me that's how they came ?.

They repaired it like it was the titanic except used screws instead of rivets. The yard I kept my boat at in USA did GRP repairs and they were amazing at it. They would fix boats that had ran aground or ended up on the rocks. Holes you could step through! Once finished you would never know, they are that good! I'm told the repairs are stronger than before. They would make a mould from another boat (they would pay that owner and its safe, you get your boat polished and waxed for free too and new decals if they have to remove them) and then place it over the prepared hole and fiberglass from the inside out. Americans are so good at this sort of stuff, though with their weather they get the business to practice.

There was some missing fittings so I could see the construction and the top sides are not cored, its about 3 to 4mm thick. It has about 1" of foam insulation (board type) and then 4mm ply lining inside which was disgusting. I think if a tree fell it would of done wider damage to one side and not equal to both. The repairs go all the way to the hull. This clearly looks to of had forces pushing from both sides. You can see how one side of the roof is now higher than the other . All boats flex, but when lifting the hull will flex down and outwards, but then the top would get crushed inwards. I am 99% sure it was lifted incorrect and the straps too far apart. Unlike a normal narrowboat, the engine sits a lot more forward, maybe 4'+ more. I read that there is some intricate designing going on around the propulsion. Its 35'. Though there is something going on with the floor inside. Maybe its took water on and warped the board. Who knows, but I would avoid it unless it was £2k, the engine is worth £800, but nothing else on the boat worth parting with. Its all very tired and dirty.

The repair has made fixing the job a lot harder. I like them, the shape and the rear deck/transom is a nice shape and if looked after, they will last longer than a steel boat and cost a lot less. The gelcoat is easy to keep clean to make it shine. Someone will believe the sales guy and that is terrible. I told him it isn't factory, they make catamarans in 4 quarters and you will not see the seams or joins once finished, there is no need for a brace to be wrapped around it.

Anyone who is a professional and does good business be it quality of work or paying their bills would never ask you to pay up front for work they are going to do. If you bought the boat from them, they would have the money from that. My advice in anything like this is to keep the two things separate. Purchasing the boat and having the work done, two different things. A lot of "boat builders/repairers" want top money for a wreck they will fix up "with you" paying as they go. Just don't do it. Survey the boat if you are not competent, get a true value of how it stands as is because this is what you are getting. A good business will be able to afford the repairs either by themselves or by a business overdraft (they will get 30 days to pay on materials if they don't have bad history). They have your boat in their possession and to move it you would need a crane and they can simple refuse access so it can't be taken until the bill is settled, so no excuse of running off without paying if they want money up front. Always get a written quote for the work upfront and a day the work is to be finished. Give them some leeway, but anything over a week you want to put in penalties (£20 per day). I have seen these "boat builders/repairers" working in others yards (avoid these ones) and have seen the boat owner being left paying the storage for months longer than quoted because they under quoted you and have gone off to make some desperately needed money, leaving you with bills to pay because the boat is yours. There are some good people out there, but you will meet all the bad ones first as they are the ones trying too hard for the business, the good businesses are too busy to come chasing you. Always get a minimum of 3 quotes (off site companies will come to you to quote and you just move the boat to them, so don't feel obliged to have it done where it is) and if the work is substantial, ask your surveyor to come and check the work done before paying, most surveyors will do this for free or for a very small fee because they highlighted the problem and its their responsibility that it is done correctly to sign off for insurance. Be sensible and treat it like any big purchase and always remember they will empty your wallet if they can. Walk away if you start questioning yourself, a good businessman will not push.

Went to Sawley Marina this week to view a 1999 35' Fibreline Narrowboat they have for sale. Sometimes a surveyor is not needed no matter what the salesman tell you. The boat had split in half and had the worst repair in boating history ever! The salesman was insisting this is how the boat was made and the top part was made in two sections? They wasn't, but please make your own judgement. Yes, the repair goes from one side all the way around to the other side down to the hull. The boat needs gutting inside, nothing worked, it stunk, the floor is like a roller coaster and I think whoever owned it probably died from smoking way too much. And yes, they did try and hide the repair with mats and a broken solar panel. So, do you think the salesman was trying to pull the wool over my eyes or was he blind? My advice after looking at all the "tired" and "dirty" boats is to avoid Sawley Marina. I would always recommend buying private, you can still have a survey done which will be less biased as they won't be any backhanders going on and a private seller will most likely be proud of what he is selling, not embarrassed and passes it onto the broker who waves all responsibility the day you money is in their bank. Thoughts on the Fiberline, repair or factory designed? LOL

Bumping an old thread, but it comes up when searching for a Fibreline Narrowboat and hopefully it will stop someone getting ripped off. I went to Sawley Marina this week to view the 35' Fibreline they have for sale. The long distance photos on their website were for good reason. The superstructure has obviously broke all the way across and had a very shoddy repair, most likely when being lifted out they put the straps too far apart. Also having port holes in the middle both sides was not the best idea to keep the strength. I viewed the boat alone and went back to the sales office to air my thoughts as they should of noted it on the website so people not to waste time and money viewing. The salesman was insisting that this is how they was built and they came like this. See photo, the repair is in the middle of the boat and goes from one side to the other. Yes, they tried hiding it with mats and a solar panel. They want £10k and it need gutting inside, nothing works and it smells like someone has died inside. Heavily smoked in. Avoid this Marina if you are buying a boat, you will get ripped off.

This old topic came up whilst trying to find some info on a Webasto, but I might be able to answer the issue here, The rover 75 or BMW version which are the same (same wiring etc) uses the Climate control unit inside the car and that uses a thermostat which is in the front bumber. The unit is only designed to kick in if exterior temp is 10c or below. I'm not sure of a work around, but its fundamentally missing a switch which would be the climate control unit. I read how it works as I was fitting a remote control unit in one so the car interior will be warm before getting in. Maybe bridging the wires that would go to the climate control unit will make it work, or use these wires as the on off switch.

With all my boats I fit a cutter on the prop (motor/sail/narrowboat), best 40 quid you can spend. I've only once had to check in there and that's because I was bottoming out and it was just routine to check after dragging stuff off the bottom. Simple seal of silicon, put it around the hatch on the hull side and leave to dry, put the lid back on and you have a great seal. Anyone who doesn't have a bilge pump fitted is crazy, its inexpensive and easy to fit, buy a rule pump that have the float switch built inside, it saves a lot of wiring and looks cleaner in the engine bay. Its good to know if your boat is leaking that it buys you some time.

Hi. I've been looking for a new boat and have been tossing up either buying a project or a new boat. I sold my 40' Reeves a month ago and have been deciding to either get something bigger or go sailing. My Reeves was 9 years old, but the build was fantastic and it was like new when I sold it. It was also 10mm all round and was over built. I've heard the company has changed (one of the owners left), but can only go on my last boat which was brill. If I get a new shell I am on a tight budget but this is the best plan for me to buy new, www.sheppardboats.co.uk = my reason for choosing them is price, build materials are better than most and has various designs and many things that are fitted standard with Sheppards are charged extra at other builders. A 57' shell is 14.5k and sail away is 24.5k. The owner learnt his trade from Mike Haywood who had a good reputation. The other factor is build time, 3 to 4 weeks and they seem happy to work to what you want. I'm not sure on their payment structure, but I would never pass large amounts of money upfront to any builder, I would be happy to put it in an escrow account with their solicitor as a guarantee to them that the money is there. WARNING. Never pay more than a small deposit directly to a builder, a good builder will have 60 day's to pay their suppliers and if they have a good build time, then there is no issue and would be happy to proceed like this. A small fee will be charged by the solicitor, but not more than 100 quid I would supply my own engine as I can get a new 35hp Isuzu Eng/box for 1450 quid (I don't have there details on my laptop), but if you want them, PM me. Fit out, I would do myself, but there are a few independent fitters working out there and they charge between 500 & 600 quid a week for labour, you pay them weekly and don't forget to get references first and see other boats they have done. Have regular meetings 2 or 3 times a week to discuss what has been done and what's next, if you have an independent fitter he will get you the best prices on materials and you should pay for these directly to the supplier and not to the fitter. It shouldn't take more than a month to fit out. I forgot to say, sit down with the fitter and do plans (list of materials to order) before taking them on and get a schedule drawn up of what work is to be done in what order. You don't want to be paying someone to sit around waiting for parts. (give a discretion float to the fitter for parts they need urgently as you may not be on site). Its all about being in control and keeping the project as close to where you live as possible. Thats my plan if I go down that route. Getting Insurers can be tricky as basically they will need to have assets to cover it and the insurer will check etc. My reply above explains a safe route to go down. Don't forget, your the boss and builders need the work, so stay in control and you will have nothing to worry about!