Scholar Gypsy

April 12

Update: the new locking slots are now available in the usual place on the CRT licencing website, together with some brief tips on which ones to choose.

As it says there, CRT are producing a longer guide on tideway boating. I have fed in my thoughts on what that should say.

April 12

Just to add that following discussions with CRT the new locking slots (see comments above) are now available in the usual place on the CRT licencing website.

As it says there CRT are producing a longer guide on tideway boating. I have fed in my thoughts on what that should say.

April 6

23 hours ago, blackrose said:

I usually use both paddles as I can hop across the bow of my widebeam, but using one would be less hassle - does it take much longer to fill the locks?

Occasionally I do open both top paddles when filling the lock before I go downhill, and I need to use both gates (eg at Elton or Yarwell where there is a 90 degree turn into the lock). By the time I have wound the second paddle up the lock is full.

April 5

On the Nene, going uphill single handed, the locks can be really quite lively. So I normally tie off the stern line at the back of the lock, and then take in the bow line while operating the paddle. I only use one paddle as they are huge, and it is not possible to cross the top gates (you need to walk all the way round the lock). The bow line is connected to a long light line (you can see it in a heap on the grass) which I take to the stern of the boat once the lock is full. Then I am ready for going up the ladder at the stern, at the next lock.

April 3

7 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

I remember seeing a few Norfolk reed harvester/ cutters a very long time ago on the Ouse. They used powered punt like boats absolutely stacked to near sinking with reeds.

I assume that sort of weed cutting has finished now? It used to be said that Norfolk reeds provide the best for thatching houses.

They are still at it. This photo was taken a few years ago, there is a dog on that boat! I think I saw them on my last trip that way in 2020. More recent ones here from the same company, including the same dog: https://www.rushmatters.co.uk/rush-harvesting

April 3

This is a topical issue for the Cam Conservators (of which I am one), as our weed cutters are getting to the end of their economic life. We have a rather weird vessel that is a jack of all trades. The Middle Level Commissioners have a fleet of several small Convers, the 455 I think https://conver.com/en/products/mowing-boats/c455

The EA have a couple of Conver MC103s, I think this model https://conver.com/en/products/weed-harvesters

Here they are on the lock moorings at Isleham.

I am sure one of the local IDBs would have one that you might be able to borrow. Do the EA have any responsibilities for land drainage etc on the Driffield - in many of the Fenland waterways there is a debate about whether weed cutting is for navigation or for flood defence, or a bit of both!

March 25

25 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Yes they do, fairly regularly up the Severn, over the Wash and across the Mersey, possibly on the Thames too.

Hence my question and I can’t see anyone has answered either way. As I pointed out perhaps not the wisest alone unfamiliar with the boat but with a pilot is by far the cheapest and easiest lock wise. There are good boat engineers who could ensure the engine was in good shape.

I know @Scholar Gypsy has been up to Hull/Beverley, but I don’t think he had a pilot. Perhaps he knows if a Pilot would do it and is available. It’s probably a better job than navigating the oil tankers up the Humber to Immingham.

TBH doing the Rochdale or Huddersfield as a first trip is not exactly a great idea either.

.

Here's some stuff about the trip to Hull. We didn't have a pilot but the skipper in charge had spoken to some knowledgeable locals.

https://scholargypsy.org.uk/2021/06/17/rivers-trent-humber-and-hull-1-keadby-to-old-harbour/

As noted earlier the Trentlink group is now offering some advice on this, and can point you to some local guides/pilots. I think I read on the Trentlink Facebook group that CRT are planning to organise some sort of escorted convoy around Trent Falls.

March 16

There has been some discussion about extending the Gold licence to cover MLC waterways in 2024. I can now offer you three answers to this question.

The first two come from a recent CRT document https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/document/zdk_NUte4QiM2pDqr6NwrQ/Kfb8qgg0sBW1XUtFEDSrML23fOmR200w59ehZl0-99k/aHR0cHM6Ly9jcnRwcm9kY21zdWtzMDEuYmxvYi5jb3JlLndpbmRvd3MubmV0L2RvY3VtZW50Lw/018c8bd8-b872-7368-9554-edb5960fb204.pdf

It says the licence covers only EA and CRT waterways (at the top)
But it has the ML on the list of waterways at the end. (I know the licencing system has allowed you to declare a home mooring on the MLC for a while now.)

But the third comes from the MLC https://middlelevel.gov.uk/navigation/licensing/

3. This says “If you hold a CRT Gold Licence you will either need an Anglian Pass or Middle Level visitor licence to visit our waterways. The Gold Licence arrangements are a partnership between the CRT and the Environment Agency and it has been concluded that there is insufficient demand to justify changes in IT systems and legal agreements to include the Middle Level Commissioners within the formal arrangements. However, we are awaiting (as of March 2024) a formal offer from the Environment Agency to provide income from those CRT Gold Licence holders who have their home mooring as ‘Middle Levels’ within their CRT online account details. We can then invest this income within the Middle Level system alongside other licencing income. In anticipation of this offer from the Environment Agency, if you are a CRT Gold Licence holder and the Middle Level is your home mooring then you need to ensure your details within the CRT system are correct to be considered as licenced on our waterways. We will need to review the situation if the Environment Agency’s offer does not materialise by the end of the 2024 boating season.”

Rather confusing! I think I believe the third statement. That means visitors will need either an Anglian Pass or visitor licences to cross the Middle Level. (This is of course impossible at the moment due to stoppages and flooding on the Nene, and a large lump of silt at Salters Lode).

Another plug for the more general guidance here: https://goba.org.uk/a-guide-for-visitors-to-the-east/

March 15

48 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Mix red and green makes brown, so red and green nav lights too close together a long distance away look brownish.

It's different for paint (subtractive) and light (additive mixing). Mix red and green paint and you get brown, mix red and green lights and you get yellow.

https://verywelltech.com/en-us/education/what-color-does-red-and-green-make/

March 15

19 minutes ago, bizzard said:

What colours do colour blind folk see red and green as?

As a red-green (slightly) colour blind person, I am not sure this is a logically sensible question. I can distinguish proper nav lights in the dark very easily. On the other hand grimy buoys at a distance on a murky day are much harder, so I rely on the shape.

March 15

1 minute ago, pearley said:

Current flow upstream at Offord on Great Ouse. It has been so high it was outside the range of the measuring device.

That's the level, here is the flow https://www.gaugemap.co.uk/#!Detail/13346/8754

March 15

Yes, that's the one. The headline gives the impression there was a tanker pumping sewage into the lock. Rather sounds like the EA forgot to open the sluices at both ends on a regular basis, to flush it downriver. Or it may be because the smaller lock (on the left in the photo) is closed for maintenance at the moment.

Someone asked at the meeting why the output from the STW could not be sent straight down the pipes to east london. That's not allowed, apparently - would need another treatment process (after the tertiary one at Mogden that is already part of the plan) - there has to be an environmental buffer between STW outlet and water treatment inlet. I should add that the storm water overflow from Mogden will continue as now to go into the tideway, and will not go down the new pipe to Teddington.

March 15

This is how I mount my stern light. Feel free to admire the handmade joinery. I know semi-trad sterns differ in design, might this work? This is the size required for a boat over 12m.

March 15

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A 1000 litres per second is not a small amount.

or .....

3.6 million litres per hour

86.4 million litres per day

For most rivers it would be pretty small compared with the normal flow - but I agree that on the Cam water is very short in the summer, and a good proportion of the flow in the summer is from the STW.

I went to an interesting presentation last week (at a PLA open meeting) on a scheme to increase drinking water supply in London, via an abstraction point just above Teddington. https://thames-wrmp.co.uk/tdra/ Involves tertiary treated output from the Mogden STW (not storm overflow) being added to the river at Teddington.

March 14

Meanwhile - to get back on topic - here is a photo of the existing outfall that I took last weekend. Typically discharges about 1 cubic metre a second.

March 9

41 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Don't harbours off tidal waters have an obligation to provide "safe haven" if required

This question has been investigated some time ago - not by me, but by someone I trust - and the legal answer is "No".

Oh and on the licence question, it will be possible to book by calling the Customer Contact Centre. It's just not encouraged!

Here's a more compact version of my spreadsheet, with HWLB (adjusted for BST) and an indication of which slots should be available at Limehouse.

booklet.xlsx

March 9

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

That would be good.

Maybe entry and exit could be confused with the simple act of going in and out of the lock.

Yes, you have reminded me! When I explain our passage plan at the briefing before a SPCC tideway cruise, I explain that when it says "Limehouse 0800" that is the time when you exit the lock and go under the Narrow St bridge. Not when you enter the lock. Not when you cast off from your mooring. Not when you put your coffee down and look for that last lifejacket.

I will flag this with CRT's developer, I am just checking that the wording is easy to change later on, it's getting the underlying logic right that is the tricky bit.

March 9

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I think using the terms inbound and outbound to describe the lock transit itself could cause some confusion.

On the tideway the terms inward bound and outward bound are used to describe direction of travel. Upstream and downstream don't work because the steam could be going either way. Inward bound you are going into the land away from the sea regardless of stream direction. If one were to use the word 'upstream' someone is liable to follow the direction of the water.

I would use entry and exit to describe the lock transit.

Most inland boaters think of upstream and downstream so its alright to use those but I personally think using inbound and outbound adds a bit of confusion..

Thanks, that is helpful. I'm obviously getting a bit too close to this! I decided against entry/exit, for some reason I now cannot remember,

An alternative is to follow the approach used at Thames Lock Brentford , which offers four options: to/from Teddington, and to/from Limehouse. So that would make six options. This works for most users I think: someone going to say Chiswick Pier, or to Gravesend, will need to use common sense. A narrowboater going from L to B would need to select "To Brentford" when booking at Limehouse and "From Limehouse" at Brentford.

A To Brentford/Teddington (early)

B To Brentford/Teddington (late)

C1 HW to Estuary

C2 HW from Estuary

D From Teddington/Brentford (early)

E From Teddington/Brentford (late)

March 8

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

What are the opening hours? And will there be shorter slots if the listed time windows fall partly within and partly outside opening hours?

Opening hours are 0700-1900 most of the year, and 0800-1600 November 1st to March 1st. Yes, the slots will be truncated. I have just upgraded my spreadsheet to cope with five slots. This is at least a start for those who want to do some passage planning.... Available for download here....

Book1.xlsx

March 8

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think you are being called back for tea 😄

They were blinded by the sun. I was en route (by taxi) to Kettering station..

March 8

Just to tempt the OP, here is the aforesaid mooring at Woodford.

March 8

After further discussion, CRT will be modifying/upgrading the website to offer the following slots around each HW (subject to the opening hours)

A – “outbound upstream (early)” HW-4 to HW-2.5 hours

B - “outbound upstream (late)” HW-2.5 to HW – 1 hours

C1 – “HW outbound” HW-1 to HW+1

C2 – “ HW inbound” HW-1 to HW+1

D - “inbound from upstream (early)” HW+1 to HW+2.5

E – “inbound from upstream (late)” HW+2.5 to HW+4

So if I was going from L to T, I would book slot A, to Brentford I might take B, and to or from South Dock C. Coming downriver from T or B I would book slot E unless on a speedy boat!

The Trust are also keen to add some words to the website to help boaters with preparation and passage planning. I have started to think about that - bullet points (not paragraphs of prose please!) would be welcome.

March 8

This website is designed for people going all the way to the Fens, but will include some useful tips. Includes link to the website with current stoppage and SSA notices.

https://goba.org.uk/a-guide-for-visitors-to-the-east/

Surely at Woodford the wire is stop walkers getting on to the field by the river? If the farmer didn't like boats then he would not let FOTRN use the land?

March 8

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

By all day I meant turning left first.

My Boat isn't a canal Boat although nor is it fast at 6 knots.

I'll try altering it to the afternoon and see what the website says.

ETA I have done the passage before in a variety of different Boats but not with this new tinpot booking system. Back in the day one just went in the lock orifice and got details into their book.

They even used pens and paper !!

ETA changed it to the afternoon tide and it is now saying 1818.

Their computer is calculating the exit time as HWLB rather than HWLB -3.5hrs.

There does not appear to be an option to choose exit time.

All that needs to be done is the computer needs to be set to the beginning of the opening window for exit inward bound.

There is no specific detail about whether one is inward bound or outward bound.

It just says out onto Thames or In off Thames.

Whoever devised this does not understand how this system is supposed to operate.

Virtually all vessels with CRT licence leaving LH will be moving inward bound for BFD or TEDD.

If this basic factor is not understood then there will be problems.

Am I missing something ?

I agree. CRT accept that the slots currently offered on the website are not workable. My current proposal to them (as set out in my spreadsheet posted above on an earlier comment) is that the website should offer up to four slots on any give high tide (they may not all be available, or they may be truncated, eg at start or end of the day when the 0700-1900 operating window will get in the way). As at Brentford, the lock operator should be there throughout the slot, until all the booked boats have been sorted.

A: HW-4 to HW-90 mins, departing Limehouse for a trip upriver. Most people will (like you) want to depart towards the start of the window

B1: HW-90 mins to HW+90 mins: departing Limehouse, probably for a trip downriver to the Estuary

B2: HW-90 to HE+90: arriving Limehouse, probably from the Estuary

C ; HW+90 mins to HW+40 hours, arriving Limehouse, from upriver.

March 8

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm going to Teddington and don't particularly mind taking all day.

I did think it was an error just wondering if they are that clueless that they would let Boats out at completely the wrong time.

If that is the case then a representation needs to be made to the PLA about it.

Is this a concerted effort to put people off using Limehouse or is it just incompetence?

I always look for patterns. Coming the other way I can see the rather uncomfortable waiting pontoons becoming popular.

If I change to the afternoon tide I don't think they will give me 1500. I believe their system is geared to offer HWLB as the exit time which everyone knows is wrong.

I think you may end up going backwards at Blackfriars. Anyway there is no chance of anyone being there at 0600 to operate the lock!

In the afternoon the website currently offers you 1418-1818, which is correct. Departing 1430-1500 would be fine.

I have been discussing the issue with the PLA, most recently at their open meeting in Putney on Monday.

I do think skippers need to understand the tides, and do their own passage planning.

Finally, this page still needs some work (and CRT have asked for my help with it): https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/where-we-work/london-and-south-east/boating-information/boating-facilities/locks-to-the-river-thames

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