ashanta

As in all cases there needs to be a balance. If somebody has problems as you describe there should be sympathy and understanding. I am aware of a couple of boats locally where boats are not moving for these very reasons. However, these boats are not taking up prime mooring facilities that have been identified for visitors. There are many opportunities for the needy to find a long term "positions" that would not restrict those that have paid for the use of the facilities. More immportantly if large numbers of boats are illegally "squatting" then it makes a mockery of all of us who pay, not only our licence and insurance but additional mooring fees as we wish to be based in one place. If it is accepted that it's OK for these boats remain in situ for the cost of a licence then that is surely wrong. I do not believe these people (those sqatting as described) are necessary suffering hardship and in fact I belive that many have good jobs which is why they live where they do.

I am not saying your wrong what I am saying is there used to be far more opportinities to either sink a mooring or anchor in desirable locations. The activity of the crown estates, local councils and privateers in the last 15 years has significantly changed that. I didn't pay rent on my mooring (Exe) until it was imposed upon me in 1993. I Still have my boat and mooring and I, like everyone else, has accepted the charges. There were many places that you could anchor for free but are now charged by the harbour authorities. I still anchor for free in some places like Cawsands but some places like Salcombe or Falmouth you are charged when years back you wasn't. There are many anchorages away from the towns but where there are facilities there is nearly always a charge. If BW has to give in to 3 party's then I believe we can expect similar situations where we could be charged for visiting desirable inland waterway locations.

Quite happy to change the subect and discuss boozing and boating "Phylis" but then that would contradict your ideology.

This is boring now

The RYA certificate is the only formal and recognised helmsman qualification for inland watersfor private / leisure craft and if you want to boat inland on the continent you'll need an ICC with a CEVNI endorsement. The authorities in Europe demand this where as in the UK we dont. You would need to either take an ICC test (which assumes you have the necessary skills) or train with an instructor for a IWHC and take an ICC at some other time if required. There are many people moving boats about who have had no formal training and they are excellent boat handlers but ther are also many people handling boats badly which at times causes problems for themselves and others. Many boaters do not understand colloision avoidance (Col regs) or sound signals, man overboard drill etc. I see regulary boats being steered by a helmsman with a can of beer in his hand. In the event of an accident and someone gets hurts or even worse is killed, the following inquest could focus on the skippers abilities. This could be debated but a formal qualification such as the IWHC would be viewed favourably.

What are you like! Thats what conversations do!

The Inland waterways "Helmsaman Certificate" is probably what you are seeking. It's issued by RYA qualified instructors and you can get details from their website. Most intructors either have their own boat or have use of boat (it has to be RYA vetted as training base) or you can use your own boat. There is a standard fee for a days training which usually ends up with you obtaining your certificate but it does not just include steering the boat. It covers everything from basic engine maintenance, H&S, man overboard, locks, rope work, Col regs, sound signals, environment etc etc. The sylabus is on the RYA webstite. If you use your own boat the instructor will agree a fee with you that may include some element for his/her travel expenses. As it's a comprehensive course which I personallyI believe it is well worthwhile and is not has difficult as the sylabus may appear at first. If you can get as much training as you can before hand the better. Good luck

I'm not making up fairy stories. Maybe you are the one that doesn't understand what is being said. I was not referring to mooring trials! Lets just recap. You responded to me previously about the coastal issues when I said it could possibly be replicated inland in the future but you obviously felt you wanted to contradict me. Despite the fact that I have sailed the UK coast since I was a child and have owned a yacht for the past 30 years you want to disagree about what has physically happened and then say if you dont want to pay the "high" prices basically do without which in fact was agrreing with my initial point that those that can afford are ok but those who once enjoyed but now cannot afford do without.. The freedom once enjoyed has been seriously restricted due to the introduction of commercial elements. The petition is about the network being sold off. It's not about trial moorings! "You may know about the media speculation that the Government intends to include the British Waterways’ property portfolio as a component of the £16bn asset sale. The Government has made no announcements and is steadfastly refusing to be drawn on the subject. We have been using this period of silence as a window of opportunity to lobby Ministers. We have orchestrated a political lobby in both the Commons and latterly the Lords to pressurise Government, and have briefed radio and national TV, using an array of reasons to support the argument that a sale would be in no-one’s interest."

Just received a request by email by BW to sign a petition to Downing street. They believe the Government is going to sell the canal network. God help us if they do so as the only free mooring you will be able to use is one that you dont want. Can you imagine if it is broken up regionally? You could paying for the region you reside and you may to pay each time you cross into a different region for the benefit of travelling. I see very interesting times ahead. The Government has appeared in the past to view BW (as a body) to be unimportant and has restricted it's budget when there has been a need to fund other "more important" departments. Once the analysts have given the government the attractive data they seek i'm sure the decision will not be a difficult one. Maybe it's time to start thinking of drawing my pension in France.

I did read your comment. On the South Coast from £15 - £20 for a pick up mooring or rafting up on a pontoon. The average marina berth is far more expensive. MDL have been the main reason. In you statement above you confirm exactly the point I have been making. you get a commercial arena. Currently BW doesnt operate an commercial enterprise but if elements are handed over to 3rd party's those elements will become commercial and cost will go up. You point about "if you dont like it dont go" should read "what happens when you can't cant afford it?" I am fortunate that I can but when circumstances change through market forces casualties are inevitable. From the boating enjoyment they once enjoyed many people find themselves unable to afford the high costs introduced. I seen a big reduction in the numbers of friends/aquaintances I have known over the years staying overnight at weekends in the popular areas. These locations are always full of (often bigger and newer) boats. The market can sustain the higher charges. That is evident. Friends in the Club I am a member of are constantly researching / investigating opportunities to find overnight moorings that are not too prohibitive when they are planning cruises. Probably one of the reason why I prefer to sail my boat in France as there are many french sailors with small boats on a limited budget and that seems to considered and catered for. IMHO I would not like to see BW's to become a commercial enterprise or to have an association with commercial agents as the water will there for the well off and the less fortunate will pick up scraps.

If BW change and move to a more commercially based organisation with entry of 3rd Party's you will need more than your insurance. If you want travel and stay over night at popular locations you will likely have to pay for the privilege. It may not happen immediately but when it does it moves quickly. I indicated in my previous post, that you kindly highlighted, that I have seen this happen around our coast. The limitations are significant due to movement being based on whether you can afford to pay the charges. In 2005 it cost me £26.50 to stay in Torquay marina for one night. I didnt use electricity. The council have since opened up a new marina there and I stayed there one night this summer and it cost me £20.00. Now some may say £20 is bad enough (I sail single handed so it only one person paying the bill) It was considerably than prevuiously and it shows you that the business will charge as much as they can get if the market can take it. There always those who are willing to pay the higher prices because they can. Sadly those that cannot have do without or find a poor alternative. All I am saying is that it seems there is a huge commercial opportunity in selective areas of the country and if BW get into bed with those interested party's there could be significant change which will cost and or restrict.

Well said. I believe your few words are exactly what I have been trying to convey.

I dont know where your looking to sink a mooring but I will be very suprised that the land you are mooring on is not owned by someone. You may not pay now and you may not pay in the future as I dont know the situation is there but I do know the crown estates are now levying rent on thousands of moorings nationally that were once belived to freehold to the boat owner, I own my mooring on Exe Estuary and I was rent free until 1993 when Lord Courtney (Earl of Devon) got on the band wagon and started leving charges against all moorings on the Exe (up to Cockwood) Despite whatever legal action was taken against him, he won. (SWAN) I have paid rising annual fee ever since which is related to the length of my yacht. I have to prove 3rd party liability ins and I have to continually maintain my mooring to their satisfaction. Have a look on the YBW website for threads on this subject and you will see that wherever there is an opportunity to obtain revenue charges are applied. Most decent harbours and rivers now ensure their authorities charge for anchoring when it used to be free. I can give you examples of many places o the SW coast where this has changed only in the past 10 years.

I appreciate these points .(I know N17 and I know what its like here in Nottingham) My initial view still remains in that there appears to be an opportunity for BW and (financially or politically) interested party's to use the "conjestion" issue as a means of increasing revenue without first using it's(BW) authority to manage the problem that currently exists at certain locations nationwide. I have seen how things can change so quickly around the coast of the UK. As a yachtsman (as well as a NB man) I cannot anchor or find free moorings anywhere. (other than exposed isolated areas) because "stakeholders been invited to take their opportunty. If BW delegates to others the arrangements for berthing in popular areas there will certainly be additional charges and that may suit those that are happy to pay and it may be very good for the "stakeholder" concerned but for the average boater on a budget it will be bad news.

Once again I refer to the contract agreen upon. BW are appointed and funded by the Government (albeit there less budget now) If you dont pay your car tax or your community charge you can be faced with legal action that would mean a fine and could mean imprisonment. I do not see why the Police would not want to support BW. Lets face it, you try an stop a bailiff from carrying his duty and the Police will definitely step in and support the Bailiff. What most law abiding boaters will be worried about is that the rules will changed in support of those that have deliberately ignored the agreements they signed up to but have no intention of abiding to and the likely result will be restrictions and addition costs for everyone. It will be an opportunity to introduce more revenue to BW and a new revenue opportunity for 3rd party's (stakeholders)