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In better news (for me at least!) I climbed Wigan flight today. Yes, I'm cynical enough to have waited a few weeks after it reopened to see if there were going to be any more problems as it's been shut since May. A nice day on the flight, afternoon sunshine and a visit to the pub afterwards. I do like this whole boaty thing when the canals are open...

I have three options - on the roof, on a bed or in the middle of a gangway. Any of those sound reasonable? Perhaps it is indeed about what 'personal responsibility' should be. I think you can reach Birmingham from pretty much any location in four days running fly, which seems to match some people's expectations of what 'proper boating' is about, so maybe CRT should keep the service point at Cambrian Wharf and close all the others, expecting people to be able to carry 8 days' waste (might need a second one in Leeds and maybe a third in Wigan if they are feeling generous). Anyone who isn't prepared to boat that far or that fast should make arrangements for storage of more waste by converting their interior accordingly. More rationally, CRT has already stated that it aims to provide points within a day's cruising, and it has defined what a 'day's cruising' means. The recent situation at the southern end of the Shroppie illustrates the issue, because 12hrs cruising between service points rapidly becomes 15.75hrs between service points when Wheaton Aston goes out and if you are making an out and back trip to The Bratch (due to time constraints) that becomes 25hrs cruising. We have capacity for 2 days cruising, double the expected CRT standard, and it is of course our choice to travel not quite as far as the next service point, but where it becomes difficult is when the service points are already 12hrs apart and then one of those goes down, is not fixed for some time, leading to distances over double what CRT states should be expected, ie a boater who has made over 100% provision for contingency against expected standards still has not made sufficient contingency and that becomes open-ended as to how much is reasonable. Alec Alec

Playing devil's advocate here, I don't see what the difference is in terms of disturbance between a boat running its engine from say 5pm to 7pm with no one on board, and a boat doing the exact same thing in the exact same location but with someone on board, inside sat on the sofa? Unless you go knocking on every single boat with its engine running, it's pretty difficult to work out if there's someone inside or not. edit: also, the bit about laying claim to towpath etc etc applies if you run the engine whilst you're on board too. Doesn't matter if it's unattended. I've been moored near people who are on board all the time and still run their engine for 6-8hrs a day.

No that's reclaiming the VAT on business inputs. VAT Exemption is a different thing, rooted in the boat being built for use as a residence.

I have been reading this thread about the removal of services with interest. I am SO glad that Kelpie has a pump out loo and big water tank. Gamebird on the other hand has cassettes and I find it detracts from my enjoyment of boating having to plan where to empty it and not knowing what state the elsan will be in. A pump out loo wins every time for me!

They may have noticed the angle of the boat changing and been able to alert their crew or maybe even pull back a bit which may have avoided the situation.

at 7 hours per day Well, you could always do a PROPER days boating....

Fortunately they haven't yet taken that option.

It's an attraction and part of our industrial heritage. I don't think there's going to be much commercial call for a new lift - the T&M is not renowned for carrying a lot of freight.

when my mate comes to visit he won’t use my cassette and I have to make sure we’re by facilities or pub or wherever, Last year getting fed up of this I said ”why won’t you use the cassette?” ”because you banned me” ”when?” ”years ago” ”oh..probably for the best then” 😃

As they've said they're closing the lot, it seems a bit pointless? CRT will provide bins, elsan and water at what they consider reasonable intervals. I doubt in the long term they'll provide pump-out, leaving those to marinas. The idea is to minimise maintenance costs. Boaters used to be a self reliant lot - looks like they're becoming another bunch of people who think they're entitled to have everything laid on a plate for them.

You do not have to be VAT registered to have a Qualifying Ship. What you do have to do (provided your ship qualifies) is to convince your suppliers to supply you at 0% VAT. It's not a question of being VAT exempt but of supply at 0% VAT. Not the same thing at all. Yes I've been there done it and got the T-shirt. As an aside: When I bought Parglena it was a qualifying ship. HMRC changed the rules and suddenly Parglena didn't qualify. We lengthened Parglena by 10ft and lo and behold became a qualifying ship again. Yes it's a big can of worms best left closed

^^^ This And (potentially) less disturbance if the engine is run from 4pm to 6pm when the owner is on the way home from work, rather than 6pm to 8pm when they are home from work. Coupe of other thoughts: - As well as remote start/stop it would be beneficial to bring the revs up a bit - charge quicker, keep the alternator cooler, less chance of the cylinder bores glazing. A Microswitch on the gear selector (to detect neutral) would be useful - can't accidentally leave the boat in gear and remote start it and if someone does leap on board and tries to drive away; as they put it in gear, the engine dies!

Also playing devil's avocado 🥑 I don't think the 8am to 8pm rule on running engines and generators stipulates that the boat has to be occupied does it? I think the understandable reaction of anyone whose boat was messed with in the way you describe would be to shove that potato up the perpetrator's @rse! 😂

If we're going to be talking about the perceived annoyance being greater because the boat is unoccupied, and then making up a backstory about the boat owner thinking it being too annoying to be on the boat...then I better change my habits, lest I annoy someone! If the engine's running and I'm stationary, I'll be sure to have some lights on or perhaps a door ajar to show that I'm home. I'd hate for someone to be annoyed by thinking the boat's unoccupied! As soon as they see I'm on it, they'll realise that the engine isn't actually annoying at all and it'll be fine.

, 😍

Finally got around to pulling the starter out and confirmed 12V

Sometimes It’s all very odd what’s intrusive: oh someone’s moored behind me and it was my spot! oh someone’s using me mooring ring, oh their trombone is loud, oh I can see someone’s there, somewhere, I want to be alone, how dare they run their engine? fairy lights …grrr (fairy lights is my grr..how dare they!) (grr and grraaaaw some more!)

Surely by now it's just a modern lift with a Victorian overcoat? Trigger's Broom of the Waterways. Selfishly i want it fixing so i can use it. Gone by several times and just said we'd go down it next time and never got round to it

If it is self-funding, keep it. If it is costing C&RT money to maintain it, close it and keep it as a static display of Victorian engineering.

The web information is still there Osprey Marine Hatch Latch: Secure Hatch Locks for Yachts & Boats. so its strange if they have gone out of production as the company is still active

I’ve already eyed up some lovely lawns, the owners’ll think they’ve big moles. I’m always surprised how some boaters here will readily give up these facilities and a few will actively encourage there demise 🤷‍♀️ why do some boaters simply refuse to accept there’re others who rely on the service facilities?

Pump.outs being a few days apart is of no concern to us as our tank lasts 2 of us months and we can plan days ahead when we want to have it emptied. We seldom need to rely on C&RT machines and use boatyards where we know they do an efficient pump.out.

I think we work in different industries - I do temporary event power, where it’s assumed there’s no electricity available for crankcase heaters etc. Biggest I’ve put in was a 1mva, that had a 5 minute warm up timer programmed in but it could be overridden. Some rental suppliers set up their controllers with longer timers than others too. They’re used for a different purpose to yours - these sets aren’t powering a mission critical load like a data centre, so engine life has a higher priority. After all, they’re rental assets, the longer between overhauls the better!

Most PRM hydraulic gearboxes have an actually have an optional neutral switch - it’s a bolt which is replaced by the switch. Relatively expensive though, I seem to remember it’s around £50. Hooking this up to a Cerbo with a bit of NodeRed programming to make it into a kill switch would be pretty straightforward. Engine speed control would be a bit more difficult though. Generator sets are governed at 1500rpm; on startup, there’s no warming up at low RPMs except if it’s a big >500kva unit. On the <500kva sets, the Deep Sea lets it warm up at 1500rpm with no load for a predetermined time before it closes the circuit breaker to apply load. You could have a throttle stop so the lever is always in a 1500rpm ish position. Engine starts, runs straight up to 1500rpm, waits a few mins, then Deep Sea’s aux relay is used to connect D+ to the alternator to begin charging. Older engines may not appreciate being run straight up to 1500rpm, but the Kubota industrial engines which Betas are based on are also used in gensets, and run many thousands of hours at 1500rpm. The Deep Sea module would take care of shutting it down on low oil pressure/high coolant temperature, and some models can also take auxiliary inputs so it could sense engine bay temperature too.

How much would it cost to change every CaRT lock barrel in the country to use a new key design? And how quickly would it take for a licensed boater to buy an extra key for his Van Life mate or his dog walking buddy?

It’s hard to understand why you would overplate the bottom of a bare hull when it would be a simpler and better job to simply cut out and replace. Southall at Keith’s yard March 2006. Paul

I imagine from now on people will start carrying more than one cassette. I would say most actually do carry an extra cassette anyway. I find it hard that people will say they have no room to carry an extra one. There’s always a space somewhere if you want to carry one.

Over the last year in anticipation of buying my 1st boat I have had many name ideas that seemed chuckle worthy at the time. I never even thought in terms of how amusing would it be in years ahead, nor the issues it may cause when have to give it on phone etc. Recently I have been "boat sitting" my brothers boat ( which he had named for giggles years ago ) and it was a lesson learnt quickly (and my list of hilarious names being scrapped, every one of them. ) In addition to the regular camotion of folk shouting their mates pointing and bellowing how they needed to take a photo (regular drunk groups photo shoots) theres also those shouting about how they 'get it' mixed with the ones who need an explanation to be screamed by a mate whose now well ahead of them. Then there are the unamused parents whose kids want to know what the emoji means. But the worst yet is when my gas bottle was delivered and the driver rang me and informed me "nah then duck I am with Morning Glory but which end should I stick it in or can I use either" Soooo embarrassing !

Yes 8ft from base plate to gunnel 3ft draft 5ft freeboard from water level to gunnel

That's assuming that you stop travelling the moment you spot a service point. This is somewhat unlikely, so you'd be much more likely to end up somewhere between them, both at the start and finish, thus comfortably passing both each day. And, if there really isn't anywhere you can stick a spare cassette, that's a very, very small boat. Without a roof.

Immediately fenny was overplated on the bottom we very carefully cleaned off the hold floor and protected it. To prevent rust through from the top. luckily we had overplated early so she wasnt too bad, but the rivetted keelson literally came apart in my hands. Funny we lusted after Atlas in the 1980s but she was in bwb hands . She was the notional pair with our butty Atalanta. By the time she was available we had Thaxted.

^^^This^^^ Stinking exhaust fumes wafting over and coming inside my boat is even more anti-social than the low level rumbling noise.

It's been discussed extensively on here, and the general take is that no standard style narrow boat or wide beam that will fit the canals qualifies. At least one of the builders who made sales claims about VAT exemption had a clause in their actual contract that essentially said "and if HMRC disagree then the Buyer will have to pay any outstanding VAT and penalties" So if you go down this route, keep about 25% of the final sales total to one side in case it comes back to bite you ...

In the 1970's there was a Thames sailing barge called something like "Banklays Barque".

Wherever there is a closure.

Just stripped and rebuilt my TTC with new burner, turbine and water pump, does that count? Working wonderfully this morning, finally stopped the screeching noise it was making with no more random cutouts.

Ale pole Davantry

Which one senior or junior.

Frankly, I was always staggered CRT have shower blocks etc and never quite understood why. This is not the 1970's. Personally Elsan points and water taps are all I need on the network. I think it's the same for most boaters nowadays plus pump-outs for those who have not seen the light.

I never dream of taking my batteries down to 10.6 volts and the webasto I have fitted a year ago works faultlessly each and every time. I never understand the need to go down to 10.6 volts as that would mean replacing batteries about four times a year. The trick is to have enough battery capacity to ensure you never go anywhere near even 12 volts.