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I totally agree, Balloon. I rarely recommend the forum to newbies anymore., I'm am sad to say. I joined in 2006. I hate hearing myself say to people not to take it personally when (not if) one or two grumpy people on CWDF come across as arrogant, dismissive or unkind. It's a handful of people, but of course they're the most vocal, and it makes the whole forum seem unapproachable. I don't understand why anyone would want to give advice to a newbie by cutting them down cruelly. That's not advising, sometimes it seems like bullying, or "you're not in my club" belittling. Utterly unhelpful, and makes all boaters seem like arseh*les. I think that If the forum had been like that when I first researched boat-buying, and i frequently came here to ask questions about everything from technical problems to boating etiquette, I would have gained the impression that a lot of canal boaters must be unpleasant people, must hate outsiders, and act superior. I could easily have decided not to want to be part of all that pomposity, not to buy a boat, and not to become part of the canal boating community. Fortunately, 15 years ago this forum felt much more welcoming and was much more representative of the open, friendly attitude of most people on the canals. And i soon met many of the old skool forum contributors in real life on my travels and at banters, and have remained firm friends ever since. In fact, i actively wanted to meet the new friends I had made online at CWDF. I wonder how many newbies don't get to experience that, because of dismissive or patronising responses to their first posts making them think: "what a bunch of tw*t's," turn around and never come back. When the forum became more politicised and so comparatively less boaty a few years ago, there was a lot of online unpleasantness and bullying publicly and in private across here. We lost a lot of previous members (especially women) who added some balance, and several of those who remained on the books, just stopped posting. (I didn't post on the forum for a long, long time. It's still a fairly rare thing for me these days). Those people will never come back. They've moved to Facebook, in all sorts of groups, fracturing the rather special CWDF mixing-pot community that once it was. And CWDF has a negative and unapproachable reputation among some Facebook groups, which is a shame. We made our bed, now we lay in it. But I do think it does this place good when someone relatively new holds a mirror up to our faults, and reminds us that we can do better for the next generation of boaters, as well as for our existing canal friends and colleagues. (Nice one, Balloon) 👏 Let's think before we speak unkindly on someone's post, especially to newbies going out on a limb to try and educate themselves. It is possible to give honest advice while still being supportive; to at least sign-post specifically to where they can find out what they need to know if it seems like a naive question; and to resist the urge to act like a keyboard warrior or, to put it plainly: to not be a scornful nobhead. 🤔

No, they are recognised mooring points for narrowboats on a narrow canal. The services are where they are. The North Oxford is a designated NARROW canal, Miles Away is the offender and C&RT complicit in allowing any passage at all. But the allowed passage is not for out and back pleasure trips but boat deliveries one way.

Only just read the OP and most replies, along with the battery thread, but will add my take. Sometimes, it may be kinder for someone to post along the lines of 'We don't want to burst your bubble but the realities are XYZ, your plan will cause you problems if you don't know about ABC' etc instead of 'Don't be so stupid, you know nothing'. However, there's no way that they can tell someone that their half-baked life choice is going to be perfectly plain sailing or tell another that it doesn't require the owner to learn about their boat and how it works. Too often the gulf between the knowledge of the experienced member and the lack of it in the newcomer can mean that even the words being used are incomprehensible to the newcomer. Sadly for them, some important things like engines, gas, electricity etc work to well defined standards and terminology and fundamental basics like physics. I'm guessing that it's too easy, when for the tenth time someone asking the original question doesn't respond with the really needed info when asked to clarify something, that the experienced hand gets frustrated when they are happy to offer detailed replies. Also guessing that the original newbie can be getting overwhelmed with the entire learning curve for systems that are alien to those coming from a grid-connected house. The slack can be cut both ways. Any newcomer who takes the good advice of those with decades of specific knowledge and attempts to gain a greater understanding should be commended and hopefully have an enjoyable and fulfilling boating life (how the battery thread seemed to be going). Those that reject everything, don't just want to reinvent the wheel but want to learn nowt, defy nature, licensing rules and even the laws of physics with a 20w panel and electric cooker (sure I remember threads like those), those kind of people will probably have a short and expensive, but educational, lesson in boat ownership and life afloat. As for the older male dominated side of the conversation, as someone in that category, it does need calling out. Remember, grandad, that young lady may have a mech eng degree, fantastic welding skills, be a qualified spark or a magician with steam engines. Calling out bad advice is fine, attaching criticism to the recipient's sex/gender/age etc is wrong. Just learn to cut it out and be a bit more thoughtful with replies. The forum really needs to attract a wider user base. Not everyone who enjoys the canals can afford a good narrowboat, not everyone wants a boat. The site is canalworld, not steel hulled boat owners' club. GRP owners are thin on the ground here as active contributors and kayakers, fisherfolks and general towpath enthusiasts have even less to come here for. I don't go in the politics section. There are more important things to do in life than argue with people when I would rather talk to them about a common boating interest. The fact that lots of ex boat-owners choose to continue to contribute suggests that they both enjoy the conversation and believe that the forum is a thing of worth. I agree with that. No ads plastering this place, no subs, it runs on a shoestring supported by donations, tech and admin volunteers doing a great unpaid job and mods seeming to keep things from becoming complete mayhem. This place is a mine of information for boat owners new and old, and a lot of experience still being passed on through quality posts. Long may it continue and thanks to those who do try to help with their knowledge. Like a decent pub, the broad cross section of people here seem to be decent types united by a common interest in the waterways. The pub's open.

I’ve been floating (pun not intended!) around this forum for years now. a post from @MtB stating “Despite the brutal nature of some of the posts in this thread everyone here has the basic intention to help. Take it on the chin and come back with questions. No matter how basic, banal or advanced your questions are you will gt good and constructive answers. Mostly lol!” prompted me to start this thread. I’ve received an invaluable amount of very knowledgeable information from this forum, both from passive reading and active posting. There are some incredibly knowledgeable members. I’ve also seen some incredibly frustrating newbies posting limited information and expecting endless help, as well as being rude. however, I do wonder why we’re accepting that for anyone new on this forum one must accept an element of unkindness to access any sort of help. We’ve all been new to this once. And I’m pretty sure if anyone actually came up to anyone on this forum and asked a question or for some advice, in real life, posters would be far more patient. So why is it acceptable to destroy posters on here with unkindness and intolerance? I say this because I’ve had the good fortune to meet in real life a number of posters from this forum, and several of these have been left enormously upset by the postings of some. I think some members forget these are real, fallible, flawed humans just like the rest of us. I’m interested to hear opinions on this. I completely understand some posters’ frustration at being taken advantage of for their substantial professional or amateur expertise. Perhaps there’s a way to work towards an increased kindness, which might in its own way perpetuate the success of this community for more than a mere handful of “acceptable” posters?

I emailed Matthew Symonds and Jon Horsfall. Both replied but it was clear that Matthew was the one dealing with it. Or not as the case maybe. I also emailed Matthew again earlier this year when a friend of mine also had a Miles Away incident. Matthew's reply intimated they were on the case but gave no details. It doesn't help us keep out of his way when CRT just say "from Saturday to Sunday" with no hint of when within that 48 hour period. I suspect they were only concerned when he wasn't notifying them. Now that he is they just don't care. Its their own fault for leaving the loophole that allows him to do this as often as he likes without any thought for all the other users of the busy Dunchurch Pools to Braunston stretch (especially at weekends.

I did the RYA helmsman's course. It's ok but they don't know much about being single handed on a big boat - at least not the guy that did our course. There was one bloke on the course living on a 38m dutch barge. When the instructor told us that one method of getting a stuck boat off a mudbank was to get the crew to stand on the other side we both looked at each other with raised eyebrows. It's still worth doing the course but after a year of single handing you'll probably know more than the instructor about how to do it. Once you've got a boat, my recommendation is that you ask here for an experienced single hander to join you for a couple of locks (uphill & downhill). You take the boat through the locks single handed under his/her instruction and they only step in if you really need it

Righto, finally got myself to Stourport. What a lovely journey following the contours around the rock. Beautiful. Did a fair bit of what you all suggested. I usually take my time and explore places a bit more but I moved each day for a change so missed a few things. Kinver pubs: Plough and Harrow is my idea of the perfect bar. Simple and non-fancy. A choice of Bathams bitter or mild. Friendly. The Cross I enjoyed too. Enough beers on choice to need the TV screen to tell you what they got. Didn’t do the Vine, looked very busy with eaters, families and children. Skipped the White Hart too. Will have to go the caves another visit. Pretty village with everything a boater needs: a good butcher, veg shop and post office. 😃and two ace boozers. Woverley: The Lock Inn, Bank’s Amber and unpretentious bar/furnishings 👍 The Queens Head, modernised, drank Carling. But wow what a peculiar village. Loved it. Walked up to the Church for views. No local shop 🤷‍♀️ Debdale lock is a real treat with the cave beside it. In fact the journey from Stourbridge Jn down to Stourport is a wonderful treat. The locks are easy to use and fast to fill. No problems mooring anywhere (only 48’) I will visit Kidderminster another time. There are NO anti vandal locks there anymore. The ‘pop’ out bars have been removed. Cookley will have to wait til next time too. Spotted the turning for the old lock at Pratts Wharf but another boat had what looked like the only easy place to pull over and explore. Again, that’s for next time too.

Dear Tim, you do tend towards looking a bit of a goon with posts like this! It's a bit like complaining that the royal Mail is rubbish because you get letters you don't like. Or an old man pointlessly shouting and yelling at the pigeons or seagulls. I know you're brighter than that but calling Facebook "farcebook" and Instagram ""Instantcrap" isn't a good look. Just telling you in (hopefully) the nicest possible way You'll be telling us you think Boris is a decent and honest politician next!!

Couldn't give a flying proverbial who reads my whole post, or just one sentence, or none at all. It's a forum post of my opinion and experience, not a Masters dissertation with a word count. So you'll hopefully accept in the manner it's intended, my disregard for your suggestion / alleged joke. (Verbose enough for you? I could just say: "Meh, go edit one of the newbie-bulliers instead. They need it," but why should I?) 😉

There is a real challenge, in that so much knowledge is crammed into the heads of so few people, whose help is called upon again and again. I just need to figure out a way of transferring all the knowledge from Tony and Tracy's brains into mine. If I recall my Frankenstinian biology correctly, all I need to do is insert very sharp 6 inch electrodes into their heads, and connect them to my own skull, with about 10,000 volts to gee things up a bit. I'm up for it. What could possibly go wrong?

Hello all My 1st of hopefully many contributions to this forum. I'm starting my research into becoming a continuous cruiser. My situation is that I have a property with a lot of equity, and I'm thinking of buying a narrowboat to live on as a continuous cruiser, and then to live off the remaining equity/investments, plus some work from home. The finances are something I think I can work out; there's a lot of info out there thankfully. However this is obviously a big jump, and I'd like some general advice on how I would go about getting some experience beforehand. Now I'd be going it alone, so hiring seems very difficult as a newbie particularly. Also most of the finances are tried up in the property. I'm thinking a helmsman course, plus maybe some other relevant courses? I've spent time travelling alone, and had a number of sailing holidays, but no narrowboat experience as yet. So any advice much appreciated, even if it's to tell me you're mad, don't do it! By the way my reason for the change isn't financial, it a lifestyle thing, fed up of earning money just to buy stuff and pay for a house. I am also aware it's not a walk in the park, particularly over winter!

A breasted pair on the GU part Braunston to Napton would be perfectly legal as a narrowboat could pass but in the right place Miles Away would be stuffed. Then the error of his ways could be explained to him at length, like all day.

That's great. But had the decking rope delivered by Royal Mail been a load of old shyte, would have blamed Royal Mail? Of course not, but that is the equivalent of what you are doing with Facebook and Instagram. It is the content posted on FB and IG that you don't like, not the platforms themselves. There is plenty of first class content on both, you just haven't found it - obviously.

I thought fishing was not permitted at moorings? Edit, thinking about it, it's not permitted on lock landings, but to be frank, no one should encourage fishing at all. Leave the poor fish alone.

Welcome to the forum. The only experience of boating I had when I started was childhood holidays and it was also at the start of lockdown, so no courses were available even if you wanted one. As has been mentioned handling a boat is the easy bit but if you lack confidence your best bet is just to set yourself a cruising goal and get out there... for, reasons, I had to move my boat half way across the country with zero experience... no-one died, only had one significant bump and it wasn't into another boat (might have been less damaging if it had been). Solo boating is easy... 9 times out of 10 other boaters will help you when needed but it's always polite not to assume this will be the case. That said, if you have the time and money to do courses there is certainly no harm in it. I may well have bad habits that have never been questioned. 57' is probably the most typical narrowboat length. If you don't need the space a shorter boat can be handy for turning where other boats cannot. Mooring and your licence are also charged by the foot, of course. Maybe I'm weird but winter is actually the best bit as far as I'm concerned.

""" Remember, grandad, that young lady may have a mech eng degree, fantastic welding skills, be a qualified spark or a magician with steam engines. """ Story of my life. Some men just cannot accept it.

Go for it. I had no experience of Narrowboats until I bought one. What length boat you thinking of? Winter is fine as long as you’re prepared for it. And it’s much nicer travelling. Peaceful when the tourists have left.

I agree that gassing to a level liable to trigger a CO alarm is more likely to indicate battery problems but suspect it is more likely to be a shorting cell or cells rather than sulphation. I would put shorting cells down to either just plain old age or excess cycling rather than persistent under charging. I have experienced solar hiding the early stages of a shorting start battery so presume similar could happen to the domestic bank, specially if the hours of darkness electrical loads are few. I will repeat this for the benefit of those new to battery topics, but boaters do need to monitor the state of charge of their batteries early morning and soon after engine shutdown/stopping charging over a period of time so they can spot variations they can not explain by use. Using rested voltage is near enough for this. Sulphation is the same as loss of capacity so you get a fast charge but also a fast discharge. Any gassing will be H & O with minimal smell and little or no acid splatter around the vents. The ends of the battery case may well have bowed outwards because the sulphate takes up more space than the oxide of lead. The state of charge derived from rested voltage and from a hydrometer will differ, the greater the difference the more sulphation. Shorting cells will give a slow charge and a fast discharger. Any gassing is likely to be excessive on individual shorting cells and is likely to smell of rotten eggs. Individual cells are likely to be dry and may be locally hot when under charge.

I'm astonished that people think their boat might catch a disease from canal water.

Without meaning to antagonise or criticise you shouldn't 55% be more than half?

I just don't understand the issue here. This forum is quite gentle compared to Thunderboat. Occasionally a newbie asks a question but gives vague details then gets upset when asked to clarify or even worse asks for help then disappears. The advice here is first class. Tony Brookes should be knighted. Mods don't often need to get involved because there are plenty of examples of members jumping in to defend those on the sharp end of an aggressive post. As for the politics stuff it’s as Arthur mentioned above. I never bother because I'm not interested in crossing swords over stuff I have no control over.

I am in my 3rd summer as a boater (so still very new) and I agree that the nature of exchanges on the forum can be a bit off-putting at first. However I also agree that the quality of advice is second to none and the tone generally quickly becomes more amusing than unpleasant. I always recommend the forum to new boaters I meet, with a caveat not to be put off by the bickering. The opportunity to learn from experienced and knowledgeable individuals more than makes up for it in my opinion. People can be just as nasty to each other , if not more so, on the one FB narrowboat group I sometimes check in to.

Some of the issue I think, is the regulars see largely the same questions time and time again and sometime can almost react as though those questions are a continuation of previous questions, allowing frustration from a previous thread carry over. It's mostly not intentional but seeing the grumpy stuff as a lurker can be off putting. The banter between long standing members can also seem aggressive sometimes because the newby doesn't have the history to fully grasp the interactions Generally this place is full of peeps who want to help and is a fantastic resource but it's easy to put off newbys by careless comments, saying that there will always be some who are so thin skinned that no level of understanding and careful treatment will help

If the tops of two mountains are 1 mile apart on your map,surely it's time to get a smaller map.

True. Pub ice. Not fresh, it’s frozen stuff.

I'm sorry, what? Can you translate to Panda please? It's Saturday, FFS.

Brilliant, thanks Glenn. This forum has answers to all the important questions…

They did the same last year at Stafford, right on the visitor moorings by bridge 98 where everyone stops for Aldi. The organiser had a right strop on because people kept picking up the moorings regardless of their fishing rods and he kept having to move along. I suggested he moved the other side of the bridge because the towpath there is concrete and you can't moor there but he refused and said nobody would be able to see them. We came back to the boat an hour later and he literally had about 5 yards of towpath left to use right by the bridge hole.

What Mrsmelly said. Unless you change the filters very regularly the microbial contamination emanating from bugs breeding in the filter system is likely to be worse than water straight from the tap - Thames Water Survey into domestic water. Also, if you have ever taken one of the ceramic water filter system apart the slime on the ceramic filter (if it has not split) plus other debris is likely to put you off drinking filter water for life. The water from the public supply will be chlorinated and will stay chlorinated for a fair while in your tank, as long as you keep the hose ends clean and flush it through before use. No filter for me and mine when we had the boat. I reckon that you are many times more likely to pick up a bug from pub meals than from your water tank.

Nor did I, apart from one short and disastrous holiday on which I found I loved it. I got told about driving on the right on my first trip, and that I needed more than one battery when I ran it down and couldn't start. I don't know why people think driving the things is hard, at 3mph even problems tend to happen slowly (apart from in locks). The only thing that takes practice is turning the thing round. Everything else is fairly logical and simple. And boats are warmer than houses in winter.

I don’t think they are a rip off at all. And I’m not so sure Woodenspoons can be blamed for the pub closers. Thinking of the few I have used they are in towns with a variety of thriving pubs. Stone is a good example. I will use them for a quick fix. Occasional a meal and a pint. But more likely a cheap breakfast and pint before going on a crawl. Im getting really fed up with the gastro pubs. The big open planned pubs that charge a fiver for a pint and give a shit choice of beer such as Doom Bar or Wainwright. And don’t mention the price of crisps!! What was wrong with a bag of Smiths? All gotta be hand cooked now with balsamic vinegar. Potatoes “wanna be Smiths crisps”.

May go by car on one of the days and blag a boat ride on the parade.

Compasses have gione metric with 400 degrees (ie 100 degrees between each of the cardinals). I was teaching some Scouts Orienteering at an Intertional Jamboree when one group kept heading off in the wrong direction - it turned out they use the 'metric' compass in Norway, so when I gave them a heading of 270 degrees, instead of heading due West they headed off in error of half a Cardinal South West. The 400 degree compass was originally introduced by the French, but apart from Norway, Sweden and Switzerland it is rarely seem now.

Possibly a long boat with pump in the bow and battery in the stern. Even on a 50' boat I would use 10mm to avoid volts drop.

I'm of the view you have been given a shedload of pricelessly good information, if you can manage to sift through it all and come to understand it. I say this because your are at the base of perhaps the steepest and highest learning curve you will ever encounter as a boater. A curve well worth climbing if only because if you don't or if you fail, electricity problems will drive you off the boat as a live-aboard. Despite the brutal nature of some of the posts in this thread everyone here has the basic intention to help. Take it on the chin and come back with questions. No matter how basic, banal or advanced your questions are you will gt good and constructive answers. Mostly lol!

And make sure you walk down the path at the side of the aqueduct (Llangollen end) down to the river, the views are fabulous and really make you respect the engineering involved...

I always mis-read that as the "Peaky Bolinders", lol.