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Now you tell me! ??

The rosie and jim dolls that someone will buy you at one point

A dog

Steve Haywood

Don’t see the point of spending £30k plus on a boat you then want to completely refurb/redesign. At least buy a boat that is laid out how you like so you just need to upgrade. Boats can be very expensive to refit.

The past couple of months have been fairly heavy going with this project - a final push to get a BMS designed, built and installed. We're beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel. The MK2 prototype is now installed although more work is needed to move the current the measurement functionality across to the new system. Just a quick re-cap on this project so far: 12 CALB 210Ah batteries purchased from EV Support in 2017, and installed with no BMS. The only means of monitoring for the first year was via a 5 digit panel volt meter, and 3 ammeters. A under/over voltage cut off switch was implemented using a BlueSea Systems remote controlled switch wired to two off-the-shelf voltage switch modules. In 2018, a rudimentary means of estimating state of charge was lashed together using a raspbery pi zero and a waveshare ADS1256 module. A few op-amps in a breadboard provide some level shifting and scaling for the ADC. Two years later, this lash-up is still running in on a breadboard on the top shelf of the electrical cupboard. The means of logging data via a google sheet, and plotting using the graphing facility has proved to exceed our expectations regarding reliability and flexibility. It's extremely useful to be able to view the live graphs from anywhere using the google sheets app and it has the ability to share access with family members etc... Time eventually came to build a MK2 unit to overcome some of the limitations, and make a proper installation. Also by this point, I was beginning to get a little nervous about what might be going on with the individual cell voltages. We have only ever carried out spot checks on the cell voltages, but there's never a convenient time to do it. Looking at my spreadsheet, the last measurements were taken nearly a year ago! By this point I have a reasonable idea of what was needed, and what I wanted! I was hoping that an off-the-shelf system would be available by now, as what we're doing isn't exactly novel, and we're not alone in needing a means of precisely measuring multiple voltages. Each time i've looked, the available systems haven't satisfied our specific needs. For instance, many of the multi-cell monitoring solutions are designed for long strings of cells in series, not series-parallel combinations. Also i'm not convinced by the accuracy if the individual per-cell PCB modules as the ones i've seen just rely on the built-in reference within the microcontroller. Having become accustomed to seeing the overall pack voltage displayed with mV resolution and how useful this is whilst observing charge/discharge, I was determined to design something at least as good, but also had an accuracy to complement this resolution. i.e. able to measure the 12V pack voltage within few millivolts. Our setup adds extra complication in that we have 12 cells to monitor. Whilst we could add connecting links between the cells to reduce the number of voltages which need to be monitored, we've chosen not to add the links for the following reasons; Firstly it would be a bit awkward due to the physical layout. Second I believe it might reduce the fault resilience of the pack i.e. 1 faulty cell might then take out 2 more cells. Finally it would not be easy to measure the individual performance of the cells without breaking the links. The system I've ended up designing, for the most part follows a very traditional layout of ADC, instrumentation amplifier and multiplexer. It provides 30 measurement nodes with a somewhat unusual, but flexible multiplexing scheme. It is possible to measure differential voltages between any two nodes; therefore only 5 nodes are needed per battery pack. This scheme enables the polarity of the measurement to be taken in forward and reversed directions. By subtracting the reversed measurements it is possible to eliminate voltage offset of the signal path. A precision voltage reference IC is available via internal nodes 31 and 32 to allow the system to continually self-calibrate. The C code for the raspberry pi is now fully written, I've ended up reusing most of my old python script for uploading the data samples to google sheets. The next phase is to produce some meaningful graphs/dials on the google sheet using the data. I've ended up doing a fair bit of verification work on this prototype unit, even checked it against a reference standard. At 10V the measurement error against the standard was less than 1.5mV. This equates to an error of 0.015%, which is acceptable and well within the spec of the reference IC. It's possible to further reduce this either by using the trim facility available on the reference IC, or by software calibration. I don't think it's necessary to go that far. With the system installed on the boat, a comparison of the sum the individual cell voltages, with the measured overall voltage was found to give a discrepancy of less than 100uV on each of the packs. So after 3 years without balancing, the battery pack isn't looking too bad. We'll need to leave the monitoring system to gather more data across a range of SOC. Initial data with the cells with a light load and at about 75% SOC is showing a maximum cell to cell variation of 2.5mV. There's still a lot of work to do on this project. The next job is to retire the old lash-up system but to do that the battery current measurement signals need to be moved onto this MK2 system. I've drastically underestimated how time consuming this project would be to complete. My biggest oversight so far has been the time taken to build of the prototype unit. I wish i'd gone straight to PCB. After all i'd gone to the effort of properly drawing up the schematic. Due to the way i'd drawn the schematic, I underestimated the sheer number of interconnections needed - well that's 8 days i'm not going to get back! Making the cable assemblies also seemed to take forever. At least the end is now in sight! Photo shows prototype MK2 unit assembled onto lid of diecast enclosure.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/second-barge-drafted-carry-freight-city-demand-grows-3023720 Second barge drafted in to carry freight to city as demand grows A second barge has been drafted in to carry grit sand on the canal system into Leeds to meet rising demand.

Just thought we would have a bit of equality here. 1 Breadmaker 2 Air conditioning. 3 Electric shower 4 Bow thruster 5 Wind generator.

I see you have edited your original post, however I will say again because you arnt listening it's a sellers market, the boat for very little could be made into a two berth with galley in the stern and a big saloon with stove at the pointy end.The op is confident of his ability to do the work so wont be paying others, he is young and in desperate need so yes it's a great buy as long as hull/engine are ok

You can easily check the things that need checking in 30 minutes - its experience. Stuff like carpets, curtains and paint is just 'female fluff' and is irrelevant. Hull engine and gearbox, is the gas heater and cooker working is pretty much all you need. It was a 30 footer that was 'at the right price', I fitted a pram hood and SF stove and sold it two years later and made a profit even when including the cost of fitting a stove and the pram hood. I advertised it on this forum a week before Christmas, a young couple bought it on the 1st visit and a week or so later went off down to Brentford and started life as liveaboards. (They didn't have a survey either) I kept in touch with them and they were quite happy - they only needed to put a new starter battery on it (but it was 10 years old) Everything else was fine. If I hadn't bought it plenty of other would have done. Nice little boat, dated but sound.

There are actually quite a few outfits that cater for disabled holidays. Here's a list, there could be more! Accessible Boating Association (Basingstoke) Baldwin Trust (Leicester) Bruce Trust (Wilts & Berks) CanalAbility (Essex / Hertfordshire) Ethel Trust (Doncaster) Chesterfield Canal Trust (Chesterfield) Hargreaves Narrowboat Trust (Coventry) Heulwen Trust (North Wales) Lyneal Trust (Shropshire / North Wales) Mary Sunley Canal Boat Trust (Cheshire) Nottingham Narrowboat Project (Nottinghamshire) Pamela May Trust (Worcestershire) Peter Le Marchant Trust (Leicestershire) River Thames Boat Project (South-West London) Rivertime Boat Trust (Thames Valley) SCAD (North Yorkshire) Seagull Trust (Scotland) Somerset Boat Centre (Somerset) South Staffordshire Narrowboat Co (Wolverhampton) Stockport Canalboat Trust (Greater Manchester) Swansea Community Boat Trust (South Wales) Truman Enterprise Narrowboat Trust (Staffordshire) Vale of Llangollen Canal Boat Trust (North Wales) Waterways Experiences (Hertfordshire) WCNT (Cheshire) Wildside Activity Centre (Wolverhampton) Willow Trust (Gloucestershire)

By coincidence I was recently scanning some slides from 1975 of traction engines at an event at the Museum Of Science and Industry in Newhall Street. The set included what I believe is my oldest canal photo!

Just for balance, there is the other side of the coin. Boat (private sale) was advertised on AD at 9:00am, 200 miles away from home. Called and made an appointment for 1:00pm Arrived, looked it over and by 1:30pm I'd paid cash and he was unloading his personal belongings. By 2:30 I was singlehanded & on the way home with it. SWMBO drove the car home and met me next day, with bags of clothes and food when a neighbour brought her to meet me. BUT the big difference is I didn't have a survey, had cash in hand so was in a strong negotiating position. You may have to wait 2 or 3 months to get a surveyor (due to the C19 lockdown backlog and the continuing Lockdown)

Are you, by any chance, the owner of this boat Peter? ?

The salesdroids at our local shopping centre ask me who my electricity and gas suppliers are each time I go by, so I tell them.

A conservatory (but I do love winding up the sellers on the street) Pvc double glazing (but I do love winding up the sellers on the street) A hot tub (but I do love.........) A landline phone Patio doors (but I.......)

Handbrake

When you go to view, check what the insulation is, and look to see if it would be practical to fit a s/f stove anywhere. Reliance on purely an eberspacher might not be ideal. Find out if there have been any recent surveys that are available, but either way I would get a survey done, any offer should be subject to survey. Look for an inspection hatch in the floor in the back cabin too. Notice the smell when you walk in. Take note of things like sockets, amount and position. Relatively easy to rectify but worth a note. Expect costs like new batteries. Is there a service record? (May well not be) Have a really good dig around, look inside cupboards at the back, are there signs of damp? Are the window surrounds in good condition? The hull and engine are the most important parts, a survey can tell you about hull condition. But if there is a lot of remedial work to be done, it could easily end up at that £50 k mark. Have you viewed a few, or is this the first? I would encourage you to view as many as possible.

Its an x hire boat built by Johny Pinder, he built good shells as does his sons who took the business on, he built me a shell twenty years ago. If the hull is good thats the main thing followed by the engine. If you could scrape 50k together you will get a hell of a lot more boat needing nowt doing to it. But of course 15k is a few quid. Decor and kitchens are quite easy to change if its not all gone mushy and wet.

HM's War canoes don't have stern gland packing. Ships' boats used to, but these days most ships boat is a RIB with out drive and no stern gland at all. Daresay the larger ones have a Captain's or Admiral's barge and these will be displacement craft with stern glands. I'd bet if they are fitted with packed glands that the packing is removed and renewed to a schedule. All very much after my time now though. N

My Catamaran is in Plymouth, lovely place. There are no rules. The Boat safety scheme is about the safety of "passers by" NOT the people on your boat. So, you can have, nothing, a 'ring' or a throw-line, or horse-shoes its your choice. (I have a throw line, but on the canal when the person in trouble is only 10 foot away from you and in 3 feet of water you could throw then a 'ring' or poke them with your 'barge-pole').

Have you seen the cowboys they have fitting out their new "tiny" boat, dodgy geezers

James, send me a message with your email address and I'll send you a pro-forma Power Audit. It is a Pdf and you simply 'plug in' your appliance, list the Amps it uses and the time it is run for. It will add everything up and tell you how many AH per day you will use. You can do similar for 230v stuff Edit to add - I think @Tony Brooks has one on his training website. Maybe easier for you.

I have a 21 year old Pinder semi trad..If the hull has been looked after,you should have no worries with it.?

A multimeter Something to safely store hot ash in outside the boat while it cools. An Ecofan (One for @mrsmelly!) An infrequent red thermometer (One for @Dr Bob!) A bigger hammer than the biggest hammer you already have. Jen

Don't lithiuns take maximum charge until the external control systems cut off the charge? If so could t be that the charger is operating at maximum for far longer than the designers expected? High currents for a long time tends to equal heat.

Yes you are! ? If the engine battery is only used to start and run the engine, then it doesn't need to be continuously trickle charged and can be left for weeks if need be. My boats first engine start battery lasted nine years with its only charging being from the engine alternator when the engine was run. In winter it could be many weeks between starts and it always span fast and fired up first turn of the key. This was a Beta engine with twin alternators similar to yours. Just have the house batteries connected to your single solar controller. Don't bother with a VSR. VSR's are used mostly to charge both house and engine batteries from a single alternator to keep them electrically separate and ensure that the start battery always has enough charge to start the engine, even if the house batteries are flat. You have two alternators, so you already have a separation between engine and house circuits. As has already been mentioned, have the bilge pump run off the house batts, not the engine batt. Jen

Put it up for sale Richard it might make some money

err ......................... what ??

or maybe we can use this duplicate to stretch suggestions to 10??

I think some people would be bored very quickly. In our first year with our first boat we went from Farndon to York via Trent falls and returned the S Yorks navigations and Selby canal . A friend asked how long the journey would take and when we said we were in no rush and it would take several days to get there and about a week to get back he couldn't understand why anyone would want do that. I loved every moment of it. A dozen years later still enjoy every boat trip, every weekend away , every holiday, even every day we are on the boat in the marina and even enjoy doing maintenance jobs. I suspect people who say the boat is just a tool are not going to be in it for the longer term.

If you understand Volts, Amps, Amphours used and have kit to measure that lot and know how to use it on Lead Acids, then Lithiums are pretty simple. The discussion on here spends an awful lot of time on things like balancing which I only do once per year and its pretty easy once you understand the rules for Lithiums. As long as you set up with safeguards over excessive charging etc then Li's become very simple. Dont let all this hi tech stuff put you off. You dont need to create computer based battery management systems and just buy off the shelf components and bolt them together. You'll never again need to worry about having to charge to 100%. It really is very easy for someone with a reasonable level of battery management knowledge.