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  17. For me anything wider than a traditional narrowboat would rule out great swathes of the network, including some of my favourite canals, so it has to be narrow. We find our 58' perfectly comfortable for the two of us and our boys (grown men) are happy for 4 or 6 on there at a time. No doubt the extra space on a wider boat would be nice but it wouldn't outweigh limiting your cruising area for me.
    3 points
  18. Actually it *is* obvious that central generation of electricity and BEV are more efficient than diesel IC engines, the "well-to-wheel" efficiency is about double -- so even if the power comes from fossil fuel sources this is a good thing (about half the CO2 emissions), if it comes from renewables than obviously much better. People don't *want* to change because vehicles (and boats) powered by fossil fuels are cheap, powerful, quick and easy to refill, and don't have range limits. Unfortunately this attitude is what is screwing the planet up (not just transport) so we *have* to change, and cars (and boats) are an obvious target because they're a big culprit. People will just have to put up with the disadvantages (which are rapidly getting smaller) as a price to save the planet. Now for things like stopping green beans being airfreighted from Chile... ? Anyone who sees change like this as going backwards needs to wake up and look at the consequences of carrying on as we are... ?
    3 points
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  21. Unfortunately some people think that going as slowly as possible on the canals is some sort of virtuous act. They pass their day (after all, the scenery barely changes) by reciting the mantra "You mustn't rush on the canals". Actually the real reason is that they are inadequate pathetic people who get a sense of power by forcing other people to follow them at their pace. It is the only time they get to feel "in charge".
    3 points
  22. I thought I'd start a new topic specifically on this since the other one has got very long and gone a bit off-track. It's a bit long so feel free to not read it if you can't be bothered. Instead of complaining about how difficult it's all going to be and how it will drive people off the canals -- exactly the same objections as to BEV on the road -- I wanted to think about how it could be made to work on the (very likely) assumption that this change is inevitable. Unfortunately technology is involved, which I'm sure will offend some people ? Let's start from the assumption that the hire fleets *have* to go electric, they renew boats fairly often anyway (and have the money to do so from hire fees), they have facilities, and are not going be allowed an exception to the rule because they don't really have an excuse. So they switch to electric boats with a decent size battery bank onboard -- say 40kWh of 2V traction cells for the moment (see absorption comment below), lithium in the future if the economics (and charging) make more sense -- which together with solar panels on the roof (typically 2.5kW of mono bifacials) is enough to keep boats going for 2 or 3 days cruising (depending on length of day and enthusiasm of crew) before they have to stop and recharge -- a bit like water tanks. Boatyards will have to install recharging facilities to deal with their own boats at changeover, big enough to turn round their entire fleet in time on changeover days -- sound like a lot but they only need about 10kW per boat which isn't so bad, the connection to the grid (probably 3-phase) would only be the size of maybe 3 houses (each of which are normally on separate phases) and the grid seems perfectly capable of supplying far more houses than this. On all the other days this supply is available to charge passing boats, probably at more than 10kW per boat because there will be fewer of them, so a charge would take an hour or so -- and the boatyard would charge for doing this, which helps them pay for the infrastructure. Avoiding the need for long absorption charges for both their own boats and visiting ones would probably push the yards towards lithium batteries, which anyway is the way that cars are going so prices will continue to drop, and boats get a "free ride" on the propulsion technology (high-voltage battery packs and controllers, motors) developed for cars and made in big volumes. The battery state (and boat position) can be remotely monitored in the same way the Victron systems are, this can easily tie into a computer at the boatyard which can do things like warning hirers if their charge is running low, and giving them advice on where the next boatyard/charging station is and how long it will take them to get there -- this is the kind of thing that Teslas already do. The boatyards can then talk to each other via the internet to do things like booking charging slots, warning yards when a boat will turn up, and charging this back to the hiring boatyard who can then bill the customer at the end of their holiday, just like is done now for diesel (or lump it in with the holiday cost). And all this is also available to non-hire boaters too, presumably they will pay more for the electricity to cover the boatyard's costs but this will still end up cheaper than diesel. Boats who only move a bit like peterboat can get enough power from solar and don't need to recharge, at least during the summer -- as in the other thread, things are going to be a bit tight for them in winter. What happens if hirers ignore the warnings and run out of juice, I hear you say? Simple, the boatyard has a 10kW-20kW generator in the back of their maintenance van, they drive out to the boat and recharge it like they would for a breakdown -- and charge the hirer a decent fee (50 quid? 100 quid?) to cover the cost and discourage hirers from ignoring the warnings, just like if they block the pumpout. From the boatyards point of view (once they've bought the boats) this is a winner for their business -- the cost of running and especially maintaining the boats is far lower because they're so much simpler, breakdowns would be few and far between, and they make extra money by selling electricity to passing boats (like they do by selling diesel to them today). On most of the the canal network boatyards are closely enough spaced to make this all work, but there are some sections with few boatyards where additional charging stations would be needed -- the Rochdale and HNC spring to mind, otherwise Shire Cruisers for one are screwed. The obvious thing then is to install these at water points, these are often on towns/villages which have mains nearby. They'd have to be paid for, installation costs could come from CART or a shared levy on the boatyards, but they could make money back by charging more for the electricity at these charging points -- again, just like for BEV. As far as I can see this will work just fine for hire boats, new builds, and anyone else who converts their diesel boat to electric -- which comes at a price, but there's no alternative if we assume this change *is* going to happen. Boating becomes much more pleasant and tranquil for everyone because the noise and fumes are gone, like horse-drawn days but without the sh*t. Some of the biggest objections will undoubtedly come from the traditionalists who (justifiably!) like engines that go chug-chug (or bonk-pause-pause-bonk-bonk...), presumably there would be a "vintage/traditional boat" exception to the rules for these in the same way that there is for classic cars -- but I also guess that building new replicas against the rules would be banned for the same reason. Doesn't affect the current owners since these engines go on pretty much forever, but stops them breeding --the boats, that is. So the traditionalists can be kept happy, but the people who live on old scruffy boats because they're cheap won't be since they'll be unable to afford thousands of pounds to convert their boats to electric -- or will claim they can't afford it and protest mightily to the press (and the organisation we shall not name) about how they're being driven off the canals and their home is being taken away. It's difficult to see how this could be solved, because they basically want to carry on living on a boat which used to be legal but isn't any more -- should they just be accepted as a casualty of change, or should some subsidy be found to help them convert? I can hear the howls of protest now, "I'm not watching part of my license fees used to subsidise scruffy layaboats who break the rules"... I'd love to get comments about this idea -- and if you're going to find problems and pick holes in it, maybe you could try and find solutions to the problems instead of just naysaying? Because even if every doom-monger on the canals doesn't like this change it's going to happen, the only question is when, and it would be better to find ways of making it work for the boating community than it being screwed by having change imposed by a government that doesn't understand the issues. Over to you...
    2 points
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  26. If you are not experienced with this sort of stuff then get help. Breaking off any more bolts will be a pain, and drilling bolts out cleanly is not easy. Assuming the top left bolt is missing, and if you shear off any more of the bolts on that edge, then there is just not room to get a drill in to drill them out. There might be just enough bolt left to get a mole grip on but each time you mess up the chances of success reduce. ................Dave
    2 points
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  28. There is a hire boat on the Wey which -i believe - has a pod in the rudder and a part time diesel generator. Seems to work alright. I'd like to know what pod it is they use if that's how they have solved the problem of electric propulsion. . 55ft NB. ETA the reason I think it is a pod in the rudder is the wire which goes round beside the fender. I have seen the boat close up and yes it is a wire not a rope and it goes under water towards the rudder. The great thing with this is that a pod motor is very quiet and you don't have to disturb any existing diesel install. The electric goes on as a completely independent arrangement. https://www.e-weynarrowboathire.com/ Electric boats are something else. I am lucky enough to be able to spend most of the daylight hours of August in an electric canoe on the Thames which is completely silent and it is amazing.
    2 points
  29. With canals it's probably more an image/being seen to do something factor than a real climate issue, since there are 100x as many cars in the UK each using maybe 10x the amount of fuel of a narrowboat you could get the same CO2 reduction by making an extra 0.1% of cars electric as you could by electrifying all narrowboats. Given the (justifiable!) pressure to do something about CO2 emissions, it would put the government and CART in a very difficult position if that gave a blanket exception to all boats on inland waterways, or even offshore pleasure boats/liveaboards. Personally I'd be *delighted* to get rid of diesels (with the exceptions noted) from the canals, both for propulsion and the bane of engine/generator running to charge batteries, gliding along in silence and having quiet unsmelly evenings would make boating even more of an absolute pleasure. I'm sure others will disagree...
    2 points
  30. I am of the opinion that dates are easily changed when reality kicks in. I clearly recall the changeover to all digital radio and the demise of FM being going to happen a few years ago now and all over by 2016. Its been reviewed again recently and a further ten years given to FM stations from this year. The dates of up to 30 years in the future are easy now to publish as not one of the present bods in parliament will be around and when reality states it aint gonna happen, then the date will be kicked further down the road. Same with cars etc.
    2 points
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  37. If you disconnect the oil feed and thermocouple, you should be able to undo the screw at the top and lift the pot out. You wil also be able to clean out the oil feed pipe which gets pretty rammy.
    1 point
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  39. I think I would suggest that unless @Jeffyjeff is used to drilling out bolts it might be an idea to try to clean up the area with the plate on, then centre punch the middle of the bolt to try to get a dead centre hole and then drill at least the first hole with the plate in place. That way it might be easier to keep the drill central.
    1 point
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  41. My daughter is doing government paid research into hydrogen at Leeds university, she doesn't see it as a viable solution to cars, trains, or even lorries. I gave you some reasons why earlier their are plenty more. Ships and planes are better suited, ships especially as they can store it as ammonia where it's safe and stable
    1 point
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  44. I'm certainly not blind to the correct use of hydrogen, as I said in the post I've just made it will definitely have its place -- but in planes and ships, not cars and narrowboats where it's the wrong solution. Long-distance trucks are in between, Musk may be right or wrong but he (and his customers) aren't stupid, it's unclear which will win here. ICEs are very convenient and cheap (which I also said) which is why people want to carry on using them, but climate change means that carrying on like this will no longer be acceptable so we have to find alternatives. Nothing else is as cheap or convenient as burning a billion years worth of rotted-down trees, and nothing else is as bad for the planet. Getting charging points across the canal network is a miniscule problem compared to getting them (with enough capacity) across the road network, which is a problem that will be solved because TINA. My view is that boatyards can largely solve the problem, plus some extra charging at places like waterpoints to fill the gaps in.
    1 point
  45. I agree that we're all in the same boat (ho, ho...) and more voices have more influence, but don't powered lumpy water boats have the same problem as ships -- they need (much?) more power/battery capacity than narrowboats because of currents/tides/winds, and (much?) longer range, and battery size/weight is (much?) more problematic, and there aren't any recharging points in the middle of the sea? The needs of narrowboats on the UK canals are peculiar to them, and the solution is likely to be different to that for lumpy water boats. But even so I agree it would be better to combine forces to fight against potentially stupid governments than go it alone ?
    1 point
  46. Eh, Chap .........You were out by a factor of 2 on the number of inland boats and seem to be taking the view that they are the only boats that count. You might make greater strides forward if you could take off the blinkers and combine this 'minority boating activity' with one with an effective association working with National and International Governments and who has sufficient boating numbers to make people 'listen'. We are all in the same boat and all going to struggle to replace our diesel engines, the last thing we need is a divisive mentality amongst differing groups.
    1 point
  47. I pointed that out, but you can bet they won't... Anyway, how about those people on the canals who also don't like smelly, noisy narrowboats, and would rather have quiet electric ones instead?
    1 point
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  49. Once the induction charging cables have been laid along the canal bed you will be able to charge as you boat along.
    1 point
  50. Dont forget, just because a canal officially takes a 12 foot or even 14 foot boat, it doesnt mean that it will be an enjoyable cruise.
    1 point
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