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Seen some awful vandalism on the system over the last few years. Bits of poetry carved in to lock gates. A fence bolted on to the off side of the Marple Aqueduct. Disgusting. Jen

This is worth a small story - travelling the Ashton flight a few years back we had other boaters further back saying "watch out there's trouble ahead with yoofs on bikes ………………." so we did the usual sensible stuff shut the front doors took the phones off of the roof etc and cruised on - we then met these lads on their bikes and yes they were a bit loud and "out of control" BUT we said hello asked how they were, let them say hello to the dogs etc and they helped us down the flight then we asked them where to moor and they said "anywhere mate we control this area and you will be OK" - and we were - the moral is common sense and engage don't confront - I admit I have spent most of my life working in "social/affordable" housing (I hate labels but just used here to explain my background) so perhaps I'm a bit more streetwise than some but if you cruise the system and are looking out for trouble it will probably find you...………. blend in relax and enjoy and don't flaunt your apparent "wealth" just humbly acknowledge your good fortune

Tongue in cheek comment. Not serious in anyway or form. Should have had your fenders down!!

You wont get any argument from me on that one but for anyone who can keep their LA's alive and knows why they are managing them well - then there is no reason why Li's cant work. Therefore there are a large number of potential users. It really is not that difficult. They are not too expensive and fragile for anyone who knows how to look after lead acids. 18 months ago - I was in their shoes. In December 2018 I was interested and went to see MP and Tom &Bex. I was frightend at the complexity of MP's arduino box. I chose a simpler approach using off the shelf stuff and by just bolting on top of my LA system so didnt have to do major surgery on my battery wiring. I knew the basics of looking after LAs and had been very successful in keeping a large set of cheapo's alive....but my electrical skills were really just basic soldering. I had never crimpped a battery cable in my life. Anybody reading this thread will think that Li's are really complex and only the 'clever' few can manage them (which is what people will think reading your post). That is clearly not the case. Anyone willing to learn and stick to new rules can do it. I did.

With that paint you always run the risk of an unfinished jobbie.

With an LA bank, (between 330Ah and 450Ah over the years), I used to have my genny running for 3 hours or more at least every other day, just to keep them full, so they didnt sulphate. The 3 hours was just to get the last 10% or so in and, during this time, I was seeing between 20A down to 3A or so going in.. Now, with a 530Ah Li bank, I cycle between 20% and 90-95% and can go 6 or 7 days with no sun, (depths of winter), and don't have to worry about the SOC. For the whole of the 6 or 7 hours it takes, I see 60A going in. Given your view, (and your useage) I would suggest you stop thinking about an Li bank, and stick with what you've got. Having said that, a month before I bought mine I said that there was no way I was going to spend the money on Li batteries ETA the bit in bold underlined

Yes I know, but the usage pattern is much harsher and any slight loss of ability to deliver high currents is untenable. I am sure that charging to 100% does reduce life. But when that life is so long, does it matter? And does cost of the life reduction exceed the cost of the additional 40% of capacity that one has to purchase in order to only use the 20-80% regime? I don’t think we know. In my case I will be charging to 80% when planning to cruise the next day, and to 100% when not planning to cruise the next day. And 50% when leaving the boat. The occasional charge to 100% is necessary for top balancing and to reset the Ah counter.

I don't see the weight or capacity as things to get excited about. The two benefits that make them essential for me are - never having to try to get them full again and - they take all the power you throw at them until nearly full ...... which means in our case reducing engine hours by 50% to charge. Once you get into your routine they are fit and forget.

One-off or rare unfortunate occurrences don't make for "vandalism hot-spots". There are undoubtedly bored and malicious yoof in many places on the country, some of which canals run through, but vandalism is pretty rare if you look at the number of boats out there -- it's just that when it happens the news now travels much faster and further than it used to and people get more wound up about it. I'm not saying some places aren't dodgier than others, just that people shouldn't panic about it. I've been through most of the places mentioned several times and never been vandalised once, so that must prove vandalism doesn't exist ?

As I said, give that many boaters have difficulty with simple conventional 12V lead-acid systems without killing their (cheap) batteries, this is all a step too far to get wide adoption -- you and MP and Peterboat and Nick and me may think it's obvious but it just isn't to most people, you need to put yourself in their shoes. Even if somebody (like Nick) produced a comprehensive "Lithium for dummies" guide complete with a component list and instructions, if it made it seem easy then people would go for it, screw it up and kill their (expensive) batteries, then blame him (or whoever). They're just plain more finicky then lead-acid and need more care, and cost a lot more if you do kill them -- which people who don't understand them inevitably would unless the system prevented them, which means no possibility to override Vmin and Vmax, which means a closed system they can't mess with, which means not a DIY one. I'm not saying that lithium isn't a good solution for people who see and understand the advantages and know how to use them, but right now they're just too expensive and fragile to put in the hands of people who can't even keep lead-acids alive...

We usually order extra of No 10.

No argument, but one of the attractions of hybrid and electric boats for many people seems to be the ablility to go "all electric" with no stove and electric cooking. It's those boats that are up a creek without a paddle when the single power source fails. MP.

Cycle life is all tied up in the cost benefit so may not be that attractive or at this point in time a believable benefit. Not having to faff around replacing batteries is a good benefit though. One useful benefit is that your electrics are operating at 12.8 to 13.4 volts all of the time...rather than down at the 12.0-12.3V range which you get with LAs under load. Water pumps, ebersparkythingies, etc work much better at 13V.....but I just see this a nice to have.

Indeed yes - it seemed an opportunity at the time. Would it make environmental or business sense to scrap the JP2 (assuming it has many years' life left) and replace with a modern diesel? Probably not as although the modern diesel might be better in terms of emissions that may well be outweighed by the embedded emissions in scrapping the old, and (more importantly) building the new engine. And for anything over 50 tonnes carrying capacity fuel usage is much less anyway thus less emissions overall than road even without counting the non-engine emissions from road - tyre, road wear and brake dust. The same would apply even more so to scrapping old vessels and replacing unless, of course, they were life expired. What modern engine could provide the same fuel efficiency and performance as a JP2 (or similar slow revving engine) for a commercial freight (or passenger) vessel I wonder? Any suggestions? Hybrid? Electric? regards David L

You need Google Marine for that. It’s not been launched yet but don’t think some bright young thing hasn't thought of it...

If the batteries have been performing OK and not getting hot wouldn't it make more sense to fit a replacement CO alarm and keep an eye on the battery situation?

Just had a look at the add for that inverter charger and am not impressed. I can see no continuous or surge rating for the AC output but I seems to state 500VA and in anther place 300 watts VA adjusted for power factor = watts so at a guess for power factors about 360 watts. That is about one third of what you need for the heater on minimum setting. What's the wattage for the electric pressure cooker, I doubt 300 watts will be enough for it. For best life you shoudl not regularly discharge your batteries below about 12.2 volts. The charge will not charge batteries below 11 volts if I read the specs correctly yet the inverter will not shut down until 10.5 volts. That's good - the inverter flattens the batteries to a level at which the charger will not recharge them. If you insist on electric heating from batteries you need a much higher output inverter, a load more batteries and, most importantly, much higher output charging sources. Its got to be about 2kW minimum just for the heater. Get a car adaptor for your laptop and run it from 12V. If you want a pressure cooker get a normal one a put it on the gas stove. The specs for the charger output seem confusing and if we take the headline 10 amps I doubt it will ever recharge the batteries when using the heating unless you wired things so the heater ran from the landline and was not connected to the charger. I think that your ideas about cost of a suitable inverter-charger is unrealistic, think start at about £2000.

Perhaps best to take the feed off for the socket for the coolbox prior to the combi. No mains no coolbox power.