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Hope nobody minds me reviving this fascinating thread? I worked a summer season at Brummagem Boats in (I think) 1976, helping at weekends with hire fleet turn rounds and from time to time with the 2 trip boats. This was at the time Alan Green was a director, along with Barry Stanton(??). Alan was senior lecturer in Town Planning at the City of Birmingham Poly (Planning Dept. located in a prefab right next to Aston Junction) and I failed my first year(!!) so Alan offered me the job. I recall the 3 main hire boats were LAD, LASS and LADY and I'm pretty sure all 3 were Rugby Boats build with that unmistakable wide top "plank" bow. All three were 42 foot, 4-berth, cruiser sterns I believe, and were painted in Brum Boats scarlet with (I think) green and yellow lining. KLEIO (I think you got that spelling right Pete Harrison) was owned privately, possibly by Barry Stanton, and was a trad stern painted in plain maroon or crimson lake, unlined. I think she was also slightly longer - 45ft? She was kept more in reserve for busy periods - being a trad she was my favourite but the company was more protective of her so I never got a chance to do more than clean her! LINDA was the Teddesley build, shorter in length (32 ft, maybe 35ft?), with a square hull at the stern, very short read deck (almost trad) and fibreglass top painted in a mustard yellow or beige. 2 berth or maybe 3 maximum. Like KLEIO, LINDA was privately owned and used less than the 3 Rugby boats. Sherborne Street Wharf was fairly derelict at that time but still with the original covered loading dock in situ. I had a bit of a shock when I took my current boat round the loop in April this year - one or two changes are in evidence!! Back in 1976 the business was run out of a fairly scruffy caravan parked on the hard-standing. As I recall, the trip boats ran from Gas Street Basin as a start and finish point - maybe even on the Worcester side of the "Worcester Bar" - a far more convenient point to load punters than at Sherborne Street. They were the BRUMMAGEM FLY, an ex-GUCCC(??) working boat that had been converted to a trip boat on the Regents Canal (again I'm dredging through the deep recesses of my mind - much deeper than most of the BCN at that time - and maybe wrong here!). The 2nd trip boat was the EUPHRATES PACKET, but not the current one - I'm led to believe that Brummagem Boats have used that name on at least 3 trip boats?? The PACKET's steerer was Malcolm Wigley(?) at that time, who I believe was Graham Wigley's brother (of Gas Street Basin and the rival trip boat fleet). I'm told Malcolm later emigrated to New Zealand. The PACKET was a purpose-built trip boat, possibly on a Teddesley hull? My main job on the trip boats was to run the bar on the PACKET, although a couple of times I was sent to run the bar on the FLY. On occasions though Malcolm asked me to relieve him at the tiller and I had a sneaking suspicion he wanted to eye up the ladies in the cabin..... With the strict pub licencing hours of the period, the theory was that alcohol could be served at any time of day provided the bar was afloat. However it was a moot point - at pretty much every bridge hole the silt and rubbish in the cut lifted the stern by 6 inches or more, before dropping back in as we left the bridge (even more so the FLY with its deeper draught)!! So how much of the time we were actually "floating" was debatable!! Trips were usually down the Worcester & Birmingham to Selly Oak and back, with occasionally a longer trip to Wast Hill Tunnel. With the small hire fleet I was invited to take one of the 3 Rugby boats out for a couple of days if they were not all booked out to hirers, although I was told not to take them through locks if single-handed. Still, from Sherborne Street Wharf there's a fair bit of lock-free pound available. My favourite route was out along the Main Line, including some of the old loops if time allowed, then down through Netherton Tunnel, left through Gosty Hill to Coombeswood Basin and back - a trip I did on several occasions. I have a number of photos of Gas Street, Farmers Bridge and Netherton Tunnel from this period (let me know if you want to see them) and somewhere I should have some colour slides of the Brummagem Boats fleet but they will take some finding!! Any additions or corrections to the above would be much appreciated!

While I fully accept the problem of litigation would it not have been possible to edit things so that nobody was identified? That would have allowed sensible discussion to continue.

If you do remove the slider I hope you don't find it a bit tight, then even tighter when you try to put it back on, due to a slightly misaligned engine

There was a similar thread on here a week or two ago where I asked the chap if he knew about the RCD. I got a load of attitude back rather than a 'thank you' for for pointing out the existence of requirement, which he had clearly never heard of.

For what it's worth, here's my experience. I've done five DIY fit outs over the years. The first one on a Springer was pretty dire, I must admit. However, I'm happy with the last one. I had a forty five foot empty space to fit out in an undercloth conversion on an historic boat. The job comprised: insulation, lining out, fitting a bedroom, kitchen and bathroom, gas, heating, plumbing and electrics (nothing fancy). It took over four months working two or three days a week. The cost was somewhere in the region of £10K. I wanted a really top end back cabin, so gave the job to professionals to make and decorate. Cost a great deal of money, but they achieved a standard I was not sure a DIY job would match. (If you want to see what was involved on two historic boats see my websites below). My only advice is not to skimp on really good tools. I found a De Walt radial saw, for example, invaluable. Afterthought: a DIY fitter-outer won't go far wrong if he/she follows the Boat Safety Scheme code to the letter.

Indeed, and any reasonable person would not even need 'guidelines' to determine what is considerate behaviour.

Laurie - interesting photos thank you! I have now edited my post having found the owner of the original article (Brian Clarke). In my edit I have added links to Brian's respective pages. If you look closely at those pages you will find further links to 2 most interesting documents, namely: - BrumTug Original Sales Brochure: http://nbrumpus.cut-net.co.uk/brumtug1.html - BrumTug Priced Specification: http://nbrumpus.cut-net.co.uk/brumtug2.html The Specification is fascinating, although the reproduction is quite poor and it's hard to read in places! Notice especially: - The Engine Installation (Item 2) with remote drive to stern tube via belts and pulleys and 5 gallons of diesel included, all for a mere £2249. - The Electrical Installation (Item 3) with just 1 x 90 Ah battery (2nd battery available as extra). - Optional Extras list, Items 9 onwards. I am taking the liberty of posting the Sales Brochure here (with thanks now to Brian Clarke). However the links above lead to higher resolution versions that are easier to read.

Why is it so many boaters desperately try to tie CRT's hands in any attempt they make to impose reasonable behaviour on those to whom it doesn't come naturally?

Whether it's a "rule" or not, whether you have to obey the T&Cs or not, if you actually use them as guidelines for decent behaviour you're probably on a winner and likely to make friends. Barrack room lawyers tend to be unpopular, especially if they argue passionately that anti-social behaviour is perfectly legitimate. It aint. Running generators and engines for long periods and especially late in the evening, polluting both one's ears and the atmosphere, where sound travels so well and so far over water, basically screws it up for everyone else because it causes perfectly justifiable complaints from residents and other users. All that happens is that tougher rules start to be made legally enforceable, like some of the new mooring restrictions run by car park companies. The increase in that attitude explains a lot.

Some days I would just go to the boat, sit on the step and think. All I can say its like nothing I have ever tackled before and don't intend to do again ever.

Which brings me back to my original point. Use the 8 to 8 rule as an example. Merely courteous, why go round in effect telling people they can be as bloody minded as they like and run their engine until 3 in the morning if they like. To publicise that a rule is unenforceable and not backed by law gives the growing number of antisocial inconsiderate people carte blanche to do what they like and verbally abuse (hopefully nothing worse) those who ask them to be reasonable. Daft or even in itself a little antisocial IMO (other opinions are available).

My first trip on a canalboat was a holiday out of Brummagen boats in 1982. A brummie friend of mine used to help out with their show outs as a Saturday morning job so we used to get really cheap off season deals. Sadly I went to his funeral this week. One thing I remember from that first holiday was walking down Sherborne Street to get to the yard thinking what kind of place was I being taken to, it was a bit rough in those days!

Yuk!

I have a collection of bits that didn't fit. I can't throw them away because they cost money, but I'll never use them.

The poster of #9 probably knows more about the history of any individual boat than all the museums combined. However, he is rather shy! ?

I suspect these are the things that you see on a few Rochdale locks, I think I have also heard them called Gatesavers. I believe all Rochdale locks had them once but most have since been removed. After the recent catastrophic gate failure (with boats in the lock) maybe CRT are replacing more of them. I have heard that their purpose was to extend the life of the gates by maintaining integrity after the gate had lost some strength, but maybe the designers thought they were a required operational/safety measure on all gates. Essentially its a beam across the top of the lock just below the bottom gate supporting two angled beams which then support the gates just where they mitre. Many of the locks still have the iron locating straps even though the beams have gone. does this link work? https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7150144,-2.0797723,106m/data=!3m1!1e3 ..............Dave

It's obvious from the OPs first post that he has little (if any experience) of canal boats if he is asking for people's credentials to reply. Anyone who has spent time on a canal bote knows how difficult it would be for someone with no knowledge just to design it right let alone build it. Do yourself a favour. Buy a second hand boat. Spend your time improving it ....if you have the time. Learn about bote systems. Then sell it and build your own once you have understood what bote system need to do.

We're all portholes and it works fine. The tape will mould around well enough to take the film, it's a bit challenging but do-able.

Beaver was certainly a BrumTug, I assume that at 32ft Bobcat would also have been a tug... Here's an article about Beaver from 1986..... (with apologies to Mike Stevens and the original author who is unknown!): [Edit: I have now found the original website - owned by Brian Clarke - from where I filched the article below. See: http://nbrumpus.cut-net.co.uk/index.html http://nbrumpus.cut-net.co.uk/brumtug.html End edit]

On the other hand, the time when you fund out how good the customer service really is is when something goes wrong. And on that score it seems they excelled.

I'm 65 and I was taught both metric and imperial at school. I have only ever used imperial measurements when doing woodwork lessons at school, probably because the teacher was ancient. All of my working life I have only used metric units.

I was taught the metric system at school and I'm 56. My 62 year old brother says the same. I can cope with either but prefer metric as it's simple and straightforward. I bought a guide to woodworking with a router and the paragraphs showing how to calculate offsets when you're using a 3/16" bit on a curve of radius 1 5/8" with a baseplate of width 3 7/8" is insane. Move onto a consistent and logical system for heaven's sake. This is such a dull argument. People who suggest there's something "better" about imperial are just showing how unwilling they are to change their minds and move with the times; thisgs were better in them olden days. No they weren't. And when you have people of 56 and 62 who understand the metric system, how old do you have to be to make the utterly tedious claim that you don't understand? People choose not to understand as though it makes them look clever in some way. It doesn't. It makes them look daft, hidebound and reactionary.

Properly prepared and applied epoxy bitumen does not “chip off” etc. Nor does it abrade easily. We had ours done in 2012 and took it out in 2017 for a look, but unnecessary. Even after many, many locks. Once cleaned up, you couldn’t even see where the waterline was. Also not affected by diesel etc. “Normally” blacked boats seem to spend 1/2 their lives with rusty waterlines. Epoxy blacked ones do not. The blacking pigment can fade though, to a sort of grey or grey brown, although I think this depends on the make. Our hull after 5.5 years, after sanding to put on an extra coat (which wasn’t really necessary).