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Correct. All those people who fought the establishment to keep the canals open in the 1960 and have since restored disused canals, did so so that they could be used as a leisure amenity. Not so people could clog them up with cheap accommodation.

What your mostly reasonable post fails to address is the real reason why people like me resent people like you, even though I’m sure you are a nice person etc. We are leisure boaters, although we live on the boat for several months a year. We like to use the system as a means of transport, which after all is what it was designed for. (It was not designed as provision of accommodation). We like travel around to new and interesting places. When arriving at these places we obviously need to moor for the night and we can always do this because boats on the system tend not to be too concentrated in any one area. The key point being that the available space is shared equitably by anyone wanting to use it. It is after all public space. But this breaks down in London where we would really struggle to arrive of a late afternoon and find somewhere to moor. This being because a small proportion of boat owners have decided to effectively annex a large area in and around London for their exclusive use. They do not spread themselves around a large area of the system as we do. They never leave and thus visitors are excluded, something which doesn’t happen anywhere else in the country. So I resent the fact that people such as yourself have taken possession of a public space and thereby exclude other people from having a fair share of using it. Not helped by a feeling that in the main, people are only doing this in order to have cheap accommodation near the city, as opposed to any love for boating. Boating being, by my definition, cruising in a boat, not just living statically in a floating house.

Er. Should we be discussing this sort of thing on a forum open for the whole world to see? None of this is rocket science, but even so.

you are of course spot on. .............. NOT !! if folks choose to spend on non-essential luxuries and fail to invest in their own future, they should not expect the rest of the community to tolerate their lifestyle habits if those amount to free-loading and sponging at our expense. Fact of life. When I was brought up they would have been described as spoilt brats. If you want to moor your boat in London then pay for a mooring. the OP says he can afford to buy a boat but he can't afford a mooring. That's like saying I can afford to build a house but I can't afford to buy a building plot. Sorry, you can't (or shouldn't) have one without the other.

What a nasty, smug, I'm all right Jack posting.

I have sympathy with the views expressed by Nick, but am concerned that effectively it means we're putting our retirement hobby above peoples life. Rog

Boo who, The Bargee Travellers don't like the cold hard facts of life, There is no such as a free lunch or a handout, someone always has to pay. There is no magic money tree, even if the NBTA think there is. C&RT is short of cash and things will get much worse in 2022 when the grant money ends. Yet all we ever hear from the Bargee Travellers is We want!, We want! We want!. Yet they don't want to pay nothing towards the extra cost. Only a few weeks ago they were demanding that their members with kids in school should be allowed to be moored in the same place (Free) without being forced to move every two weeks in term time. The local market rate for a mooring is over £15000 a year (Battlebridge Basin) If all the Bargee Travellers on the Regents Canal paid, C&RT would have an extra 7.2 million in funds each year. . It been claimed that they move around, yet most don't. I seen the same group of boats from friend's window that have been moored in the same place for months. As for the claim that the NBTA are 'Guardians of Tow-path', who are they fooling other then themselves. That is like the Travellers on the road claiming to be 'Guardians of Pavement, Car Park, School Field or Park' when told to move-on by the Police and the Courts . As for the claim that it is imposable for the 20-30 years get a foot on the ladder. This wrong again, the real reason is simple. They can not manage money to save the deposit for a mortgage, it is all to often to much month at the end of the money. It is all down to spending on the latest must have. Be it the latest iPhone, Ipad, 60” screen TV, the full Sky package, fashion and a lot of other pricey things. The current iphone XS even with the trade in price is over £750, who the sort of fool who pays this sort of price for a phone and this every time a new model comes out, which is about every 18 months. Yet I have never paid more then £40 for a phone and then I only replace if damaged or the battery is worn-out. The same with computers, Yet I only upgrade when required, I'm still using the same ATX case I brought in 92, just replacing bits when needed. The LCD screen is 20 years still does the Job, which is a good thing as finding a replacement 17” might prove to be a bit hard. Like most people of my age on this forum, we were taught the value of money and the need for money management at school or by our parents, the importance of saving for things rather then use credit. It's hardly news that people spend more freely with credit cards than when they're using cash. We all seen the 20 something with the wallet full of cards, Using a credit card instead of cash is called "payment decoupling", a fancy term for the fact that credit cards mean you get to enjoy your new iPhone, weeks or months before actual paying for it, add a fascinating wrinkle: spending actual cash feels uniquely painful even when decoupling's not an issue. When experimental subjects were given free cash and invited to spend some of it, they do so more conservatively than when given credit vouchers – even when they're told they'll get their change in cash either way. A single credit card does have it's uses. Either as a backup or for a purchase of £100 for section 75 protection and then only if you can pay the full amount that month. f you normally put all of your purchases on your credit card, and then you don’t pay off your credit cards in full every month, because of added interest charges you are probably paying at least 50% more for everything you buy. If you are relying on your credit cards to afford your lifestyle, your living beyond your means and you know where that will end. It is completely possible for a 20-30 year old to not only save a 20% deposit and get a mortgage. And I don't mean the North East either, My own daughter (28) and son-in law brought their first two bedroom house two years ago in Dorset, only a few miles from my own place in the Purbeck's. Dorset is not a cheap place to buy a house, and we have the most expensive street in the South West to buy a house. Yet to save the 20% deposit took only eight years and they did not live like hermits, Not that it possible to do that with two girls, simple by careful money management and using a budget and sticking to it. Not having student loans to pay helped as well, they both did apprenticeships which paid for their degrees. Yet they were able to put aside in a ISA account £400 month. Spending pattern also help when getting a mortgage, things like using overdrafts often or having pay day loans do put a lender off. Yet you do need some credit history and that is where that one credit card is used to build up a good credit history. People who don’t plan for their future seem to move from “crisis” to “crisis.” As for living in London, I have done between 1989 and 90 where I was moored at High-Line at Northolt on the Grand Union Paddington Arm before moving out to Langley on the Slough Arm when a mooring became available there. They was a fair number of boats moving up and down the Paddington Arm back then, mostly at the weekend. Before that on a mooring near Manchester between 86 and 88 while at UMIST. No council tax back then just the CC. Moving the boat from Manchester down to London in the Christmas Break to some planning and effort. . It also worked out cheaper as well to stay on the boat in the week. And were able to save the deposit quicker. Being able to buy the house in 94. We could have moved up to Cambridgeshire when I was offer the Job in Cambridge. Yet the system work it just added an extra hour on the Friday and Monday for travel back and from Dorset. But then you will note that I always had a paid mooring and not just left the boat on the towpath. As for the twit who thinks it Ok to make threats against person and property, How would you like a visit from one of my friends to slap the darby's on you and take you up the steps in front of the Beak, as he saw what you wrote. The last one who tried was caught 'flagrante delicto' on a Friday while committing damage namely spray painting offensive language on the side of my boat causing £3000 worth of damage. She woke my neighbour who tried to catch her when she kick him between legs, she fled the area over the weekend. She is still wanted by the Police to face charges. This was because a member of the Waterman's Club had stuck a notice on her boat for leaving it chained to the in the middle of the moorings in West Park where she had left the boat throughout July and August. She believed it it was me who had done, As we had words about her conduct in front of my grand daughters. One outcome was that the marina is now covered in flood lighting and CCTV, before it was only the front gate and workshops. As for the woman who was vulgar in their post , This is the sign of a low “IQ“, a result of a lack of education. Which is why you have a low skill-set and are poorly paid.

Closure - bill and the gang at Ashton Packet got me sorted in under 24h. Little short of a miracle with 68 year old engine! Thanks.

Myself and two other guys built our first steel narrowboat. 45 ft from a set of available plans. The local steel stockholder did all the bends for us [gunnels]. It took the three of us 4 years and one week. Easter is a movable feast. We worked every Sunday and 2 evenings a week, it was hard graft but we enjoyed every minute of it. Go for the biggest shell you can fit in the build space, because all the work is in the stem and stern. the bit in the middle is much easier. When completed the insurance value was £42,000 the actual cost to us was £12,659, less our hours worked. We did it for love not profit. We rebuilt an engine for it but had to purchase a new gear box and propeller. We bought the correct stainless steel and turned our own prop-shaft. When the shell was completed we filled it water to check it did not leak. It did, about an egg cup full over four days. Its a huge undertaking, do not underestimate that but when you sail away for the first time its a huge satisfactory feeling that last as long as you own it. If you need any help I can give only too happy to help.

Well done in keeping a sense of humour! I reckond London is busy and recognise the problems raised on here, I just choose not to blame other boaters for the situation. If I'm looking to apportion blame then it's towards those who have been instrumental in creating our broken society, with breathtaking inequality and and completely broken housing market.

The answer to this is quite simple, bring in more 24 hour visitor moorings around London. Along the Regent's pretty much all the designated visitor moorings are 14 days, which is utterly pointless since that the default maximum stay on any towpath mooring. There's a 24 hour mooring in Limehouse and a 4 hour(????) mooring in Camden. Apart from that everything is 14 days.

'Tis a curious thing. My parents on getting married could not afford a house so they lived in caravans rather than boats. Odd, given my fathers side were a very accomplished boat building family. I on the other hand was in the same position but chose boats to live on instead of a house. Always had moorings though. So my start in boating was born of poverty/inability to get a house but I had an innate interest in boats and boating right from being a toddler. I LURVED "Tales of the Riverbank" on telly as a small child mainly for the bits when they went out on the river on their little electric boat. Then later to be allowed to take one of great Uncle Ern's hire punts out on the river when we visited. So I can see both sides. I'm sure some people have a lifelong interest in canals and boating which arose initially from buying one as a home out of poverty. Equally I can see plenty of people about who have no interest in and care nothing about boats and canals despite living on one. Just musing really....

No, I am putting everyone’s requirements equally. We should all have equal access to the space. Just as we do in city parks. The corollary to your point is that we should allow people to put caravans in london’s parks because, it seems according to you, having somewhere to live cheaply in London is more important than amenity /leisure activity. Since society wouldn’t tolerate that, I’m not clear why it is tolerated on london’s canals. And anyway, a lot of boaters wishing to visit central London are not retired. I certainly wasn’t the last time I visited London by boat (which was about 15 years ago).

Ah, good point. Among my many Get Rich Quick schemes one was becoming a tarpaulin salesman on the K&A.

Boat wise, London is busy, very busy, but the picture being painted on this thread is very warped. I live on a 40ft nb. I do not like double mooring as I have a grumpy dog who barks at the slightest noise and refuses to cross another boat to get to the bank so, I will sometimes have to miss certain areas of central London if I don't wish to double moor. Having said that, if London was not so tightly packed with boats then boats would, I am sure, be much less secure than they are even now, and we have a number of security issues as I said in my earlier post. So, in busy areas, it can be beneficial to have a neighbour who will be looking out for your boat. Facilities are lacking, while the argument from CaRT and some boaters is that there are more facilities here than anywhere else in the country, these facilities are serving many many more people and so, they break down, get blocked etc. The notion that there are always queues at water points is not true, yes, in busy areas that will often be the case on a weekend but it really doesn't take long to water up and as boaters we go on boat time. There are people who abuse the facilities, just as there are people who do that in every other walk of life, I never understand why toilets in pubs, restaurants etc still have to have a sign telling people not to put wetwipes down but we hey, that's life, someone will always come along and try and stuff a nappy down the elsan at some point, we deal with it and move on. There are no recycling bins provided by the canal and river trust between Victoria park on the regents and, well actually they are the only ones I can picture east of Little venice which is frankly unacceptable from a charity which has just launched a campaign to get everyone to collect litter, where will that go? In local authority bins and they will foot the bill. So while the Canal and river trust keep exclaiming that they cannot keep up with demand, they keep on issuing licences and taking licence payments, selling land to developers, I could go on. Having said all that, they have a very difficult task on their hands, one I am really not sure the organisation has the ability to cope with but time will tell. This description of us all being continuous moorers? Well yes, we do moor after moving, that is a given but we certainly do move, otherwise we wouldn't have our licences renewed would we. The idea that we all have a secret moving schedules and space swap is paranoia and conspiracy theory and simply not true. If you take a look at the London boating facebook groups for example, anyone who asks to space swap is swiftly told off. I am sure there are a few boats which do this, just as there are a few boats which don't move as often or far but it really isn't many. Living on a boat as a cc-er, is a completely different lifestyle to having a holiday boat you leave in a marina and only take out when the sun shines but different doesn't mean bad. We have a wonderful community of knowledgeable, hardy, kind, skilled enthusiastic boaters and we will defend ourselves when attacked with such vitriol as that seen above. We make the canals safer by maintaining a presence there, we collect litter, we clear up oil spills from industry and help resolve structural issues, we act as liaison between authorities and hokld them to account when the CRT, Environment agency, local councils and Thames water for example all try to pass the buck and claim responsibility isn't theirs , we report injured animals we defend and assist victims of crime on the canals in London and we are the victims of crime, continuously, we have had to battle with an underfunded police force as our community were being mugged at knife point, women punched in the face while cycling so a thief could take their bike, homes invaded burgled, we have learned that their is safety in numbers and community and without us, (just last night my friend called me from their boat as someone drugged up to the eyeballs had climbed on their boat and tried to get in through the door, I came out with th dog and scared them off but my friend was terrified )that single, beautifully polished boat that pops into London for a few days tourism would be smashed and robbed because there would be no one around acting as presence and detterant. I have no doubt that things will change, the IWA hate us and lobby CRT to get rid of us but we will fight to keep our community. Yes there will always be people who dont play by the rules but next time you walk past a boat which looks a bit shabby and hasn't moved for a while, instead of tutting and raging online, think for a moment that person may, for example be unwell, physically or mentally, unable to access health services consistently because of their lifestyle, which may or may not have been their first choice, and be receiving threatening letters from CRT, it happens, so don't be too quick to judge a situation you know nothing about. London is a busy city with a huge population all on a wide specturm of living conditions and with different lives and needs, the canals in London are no different.

And the second law is that being on a widebeam excuses you from ever having to close lock gates behind you.

When I bought mine they were relatively new to the UK. The manual said you could wash them in the dishwasher, but when I did so all the colour disappeared. Apparently American/Canadian dishwashers don't use salt unless you add it on a per-time basis but of course UK ones have reservoir so salt is always added. Tilley replaced it with no problems, thanking me for discovering that the UK version of the manual needed re-writing. A few years later two of the brass eyelets fell out; Tilley replaced it with no problems. Then several years later the dog chewed the brim and again Tilley replaced it with no problems. I reckon I got good value from my purchase 30 years ago, especially as in every case they returned the old hat with the new one and I am still using them all (even the one with half the brim missing)

Au contraire. When CRT use it, it seems to stay up for decades...

Typical NBTA member....?

Iphones and lattes are not the reason the younger generation cannot afford homes...as satisfying as that would be to the dailymail brigade! It's the price of houses relative to the average wage! https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/5590859/one-in-four-middle-earners-own-home-ifs-report/ Put a link to an article in the sun *shudder* rather than the guardian to avoid accusations of biase ?

Unless there is some cryptic meaning to your post which I don’t understand, you are saying that you are concerned that we are putting a retirement hobby above people lives. I think we also established that it is not in fact a retirement hobby, just a hobby or leisure activity. Since you are concerned about it I presume you mean we shouldn’t be doing it. Am I wrong? And yet as I demonstrated, in all other walks of life leisure activities are put above people’s lives, if by people’s lives one means having a place to live. This is why we have a planning system, green belt, national parks, city parks etc with no possibility to build houses on them or legally put mobile housing. I don’t understand why you think the canals should be different?

Private landlords and minimum wage employers being subsidised by the council tax payer.

It is also because a narrow boat moored inconsiderately is less of an obstruction and less memorable than a widebeam moored equally inconsiderately.

I've done something similar to this for a couple of friends boats, but did the CAD design myself and got a local company to engrave and cut the panel for a reasonable price. If you can design something and make a drawing, then most cities will have one, or more places that can make one. Here is one of my designs below. One day I'll do one for my own boat! Jen

But you must agree she is a perfectly balanced individual - A chip on each shoulder !!

Perhaps you need to remove the plank off your shoulder!

Well there we have it, this has nothing to do with boating, it has everything to do with your politics. Why are you talking about mobile phones and student debt? I don't think this needs much response, you have set your nonsensical justification for your opinion in a perfect light for all to see and undone yourself. You need no help from anyone else to show how bigoted your opinions are.

That is so old school. Rule number one before touching the controls is to whip the camera phone out.

What a bunch of nasty, intolerant, judgemental old men inhabit this forum nowadays. I know who's full of bovine droppings and who's trying desperately to be reasonable. As for the "shame on you" comment coming from someone who happily admits to wanting to cleanse the system of non shiney boats the hypocrisy beggars belief. Time to stop looking at this thread in the futile hope for reasonableness (though I do thank Mr Athy for questioning the implication that London would be a sea of tranquility were it not for the nasty, noisy, smelly boaters)

If you have a widebeam it the the only place you are allowed to moor. Other than bang opposite any other width restriction you can find. You'll notice this as you get around more.

You think right. Better than an order of magnitude less thermal expansion with copper, compared with plastics. Jen

Well, Standedge is over 3 miles of tunnel, plenty of room for things to stay lost a long time, but anything that floats should emerge in the end, as apart from what lock use takes there's a steady flow of water into it in various places draining from the parallel (slightly higher) railway tunnels, so you might expect a net flow out of each end? Somewhere in there should be the stern rail of Lingy's boat which got knocked off while Stephen and myself were going through two weeks ago. We steered half the tunnel each, with a CRT guy also on the back with us, but very surprisingly no-one noticed it go; I noticed its absence just after we emerged at Diggle, and informed the CRT people there. It's a big lump of wood, about 7 foot by 4" by 2", so should get noticed sooner or later. But I guess it could float back and forth along the 3 miles for a long time before it either emerges or is retrieved.

Don’t judge....and if you think you might be a one man revolution you can think again.....

Assuming your sense leads are normally connected to a shunt ( a fat conductor inserted in series with your battery negative lead), then after you disconnect them from the shunt connect them to each other and check your meter still shows zero.

All those poles look a right mess. And they haven't even fitted any windows. Those cowboys have had you over a treat, I reckon!!

You aren't really using the system as a means of transporting goods though are you? Like it was designed for? The few boats who do do that (coal boats) are ironically mostly supplying liveaboards... But uses change and this is a fact of life and should be embraced. Where exactly have you struggled to find a mooring in London in a late afternoon? I have simillar complaints about Llangollen and Braunston and Cropredy...we worry about arriving there and failing to find a mooring late afternoon! So we time our arrival to be earlier or stop earlier somewhere else (eg Horsenden hill/Perivale is an excellent stop before going through central London). Because when everyone is complaining about how full London is they really mean the short stretch from Little Venice to Angel? Always room further east and further west than this...in fact I wouldn't stop places that weren't fairly busy outside this central bit....

There are two conflicting issues at play, one is that repeated plugging and unplugging of the connector will eventually wear it out. The other is that having a permanent shore earth connection will maximise the chances of electrolytic / galvanic corrosion of the hull. The latter issue is reduced by having a decent galvanic isolator or isolation transformer. Since getting a new pair of connectors is pretty cheap compared to getting a new hull, I would favour unplugging when not in use. Especially if you don’t have a GI or an IT.

Yup - the 'Baton Twirlers' are out in full force - Me, Me. Me !

I use an online company for work and also used them for our electrical panel on Bluemoon. you design it online, get the price and place your order. https://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/ sorry very duff photo

Just a small point of order..... in your recent thread on favourite canals I did say that if I had to spend my life on only one canal it would be the Leeds Liverpool. And in that event I would probably have a wide boat though not one of those ugly "fat narrowboat" things. But in general I agree with the sentiment expressed. Mrsmelly may be engaging his usual tongue in cheek drive mode (and making a shedload of assumptions about forum members), but I only ever hear words like "sewer tube" expressed on this forum where occasionally owners of wide craft can't resist a pop at those who choose a different style of boating. The narrow canals of England and Wales are a unique gift which should be celebrated not derided, and you only have to spend a few minutes in the company of one of the many visitors from overseas to discover how envious the rest of the world are that we have this wonderful, charming, historic facility. I'm with the guy who said "Boats, like whisky, all are good." but to truly appreciate all the inland waterways of England & Wales you have to have a narrow boat, it's just not debatable.

It still remains combustible but on ageing it starts forming gums which will start blocking injectors or maybe more waxing at low temps in very cold winters etc. Maybe Alan's experience of 5 years with farm type equipment is ok but.......then there is the addition of bio-diesel which shortens the shelf life and increases the chance of diesel bug. I'd be concerned about diesel over a couple of years old.

I would suggest that fuel suppliers (particularly on the Cut) will not turn over enough to justify the cost of doubling up and installing second tanks, pumps etc. They will change over 100% to White, so the option of duty-free red for 'domestic use' will not even be available. Little point on boaters fitting a second tank if they cannot source the fuel to fill it.

I advocate a pragmatic approach to this. Stick strictly to the hours if the moorings are in high demand but don't stress about an extra night if there are loads of empty moorings. And whatever you do - don't take the P.

Maybe CaRT don't enforce because there is no legal right to fine overstayers, if they did it might let the cat out of the bag? Better to give the impression that they have power?

That's not Misty Blue, that's Navy Blue. The police really ought to have enough sense to search by paint code.