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Say what you like about CRT, but name one other large, national organisation you could expect to phone up and have a customer service experience like the one I had yesterday: "Hello, Canal & River Trust, how can I help?" "Is there any chance you could get hold of somebody at your Etruria yard? I think I might have left a set of keys in the shower at the service block before we left this morning." "Hmm... hold on and I'll see if I can get hold of the Area Supervisor, Alan Whitehouse, for you" [Brr brr… brr brr…] "Hello, Alan Whitehouse speaking." "Oh hi, I was just explaining that [bla bla bla]…" "I'm just at Etruria now actually... Hang on... I'm just walking round... in the shower? Yes I've got them. Where are you now?" "Barlaston, but we've only stopped for lunch really, we were hoping to head towards Stone." "That's okay, we can bridge hop. Just give me your number and I'll phone and check where you are when somebody's able to set off." Half an hour later Alan quite cheerfully hands the keys to me by my boat at Barlaston after all, explaining that he was planning to do a job down that way on Friday anyway and decided he might as well just do it then instead. Top marks I'd say. And they were already in my good books for offering to dispose of all my contaminated bilge water from Monday for me (see my earlier post) if I just left the containers out by the skip.

Hugh, there are many folk here interested in boats and leaning more about them is why we keep coming back. If contrary opinions and advice are sent in private messages and not shared, we all lose the chance to learn things and the recipient doesn't have the benefit of seeing that information supported, caveated or challenged by others who may also know the subject well. There's plenty of room in the open forum for your "more balanced, view warts and all".

I find it a bit sad all this C &RT bashing. Like all organisations, there are good and bad bits and I don't blame them for trying to find out what they are doing well and where they could do better. As far as I am concerned, they are maintaining 200 + year old structures which sometimes fail because of age and sometimes because of damage by boats and although they could probably sometimes do things better, they get very little thanks or praise when they do fix things quickly and allow us boaters to continue our trips with little disruption. But no, the anti C & RT brigade (some who don't even have a C & RT licence) pile in with their negative comments. It is so nice to read the occasional post in praise or C & RT but they are far outweighed by negative comments. It makes me wonder sometimes why some folk on here continue to boat if it as bad as they say. Haggis

?Morning Alan Quite right - let's not. Which you accessed through her profile page - so let's not split hairs or (fun as it is) spin those fact ? A beautifully loaded question ? to which you already know the answer, but is it, in this case, the right question ? I LOVE this - it's so OTT Drama Queen. I have no idea what it means with in the context of the conversation but I love it. Do you wanna do NaNoWriMo with me this year Now much as I would love to carry on chatting I have to go - because I still haven worked out how you lot all do this retirement thing. TTFN You really aren't and yes we do - We are a really nice bunch but shouldn't always be left unsupervised

Have you never seen a toddler with osmosis?

Hi everyone! phew yes, quite surprised by how many people are replying, and how interested everyone is...I was at work all night and got up with the kids this morning, not a lot of time. okay so yes we are in Scotland, living on a minimum wage income , hubby looks after the kids and I work every hour I can. So that the finances we’ve loved the idea of living on a boat (of any kind) since we got together about 11 years ago, we’re a pair of hippies. We have been following YouTube channels for the last couple of years or so and love the idea even more. We have very little money and unlikely to be considered for a mortgage so we liked the idea of living aboard also as it would be a cheaper way of owning our own home, plus the freedom etc. We are very aware of how difficult it would be, how little money we have etc. But I think about it all the time, trying new angles to see how we could afford it. That said, we both know it’s likely something we would only get to do once the kids are grown up. This makes me sad as I want the kids to experience it. I ask ask many questions from different angles as I approach the logistics of this to see if we could afford it this way...or that way...or what if we ...? And so on Sorry to those who mentioned I don’t reply on previous threads, I didn’t realise people were interested enough to be annoyed by lack of a reply - I barely have any free time to be honest but I will try to from now on. Researching this stuff is what keeps me going at work as I look stuff up on my breaks and think about it through the tedium of work. It’s easier to read than type on my phone. love the offer of the boat for 10K, not at that stage yet but pleased to see it’s possible. sorry for being an annoying newbie! We all start somewhere though right? Thanks for all the advice

Either the black, red, or blue wire disarms the bomb obviously, but which do you cut? Boaters with solar panels are very un-environmental, damaging the sun. Fortunately, most of us still have diesel engines and stoves burning fossil fuels, which are stored sunlight from millions of years ago, being put back in to the environment. This puts off the day when the sun goes out. The really evil boaters are the ones with all electric, solar powered boats. Jen

These stories were going round Birkenhead a few months ago too. Which isn't to say they may not be true, and even understandable. What is also unacceptable is the way some people manage their dog ownership, and the sufferers can well get to the point of apparently losing any sense of proportion.. I had the misfortune to live in a terrace next door to someone whose dog barked loudly enough to shake the connecting wall from the moment he went to work at 7am until he got home about 6pm, and then again when he went to the pub. Mentioning it did nothing. I did consider throwing poisoned meat over the fence but in the end just recorded the dog barking, set up a 300 watt PA against his bedroom wall upstairs and ran it on full whack on a tape loop from 11 pm until the next morning (I went and stayed with friends). Nothing was ever said, but the dog disappeared. My current neighbour's yappy terrier has a dogflap, goes into the garden (close to our bedroom window) about midnight most nights and barks at nothing for half an hour, then again at about 6am. It's been mentioned. Dog people, as far as I can tell, don't actually notice their own dog making a nuisance of itself. It's not that they don't care, they just don't hear it, or don't think it matters. But noise is one of the great curses of modern city living and can lead to what might look like over-reaction. And dogs are designed for company, not to be left alone all day, or like the one further down my road, just kicked out into the back yard every day (where, of course, it barks incessantly) when the owners go to work. It's my opinion that a high proportion of dogowners shouldn't be allowed to have the damn things, but sadly they are and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Guys - for goodness sake stop taking about Donna like she's a pet in a cage. How and what money she and or her husband earn in none of our business.

I'm sure you do, but this is one helluva expensive dream to have. Buying a wreck and doing it up will cost you dear. More than you can possibly imagine as inexperienced boaters. Far cheaper to buy an old boat that's been well looked after, is complete and perfectly usable. What you'll get is something pretty unfashionable aesthetically, but a great start to a boating career.

If you come South, you will soon get mugged on a town centre or lock somewhere and become a friend..

I also do not and never have charged a fellow boater for any work i have done on their boats just as many on here dont, and over the 12 years i have been on the site i am sure the advice and knowledge i have shared has helped many folk just as i hope this thead will! Rick

Hi Rach Yes but plans have changed, not to bad though . As you may know i was expected an operation later in the year but it has been brought forward and will in May now so that has put plans to launch in May to June as i will struggle with one arm to get it done for May. So plan is in the next few weeks i am going to get done the BSS work and get it in when i am off in May. There is little to do and i got the worst or biggest job done now. That was the locker seat tops. If you remember it was made from the same ply as the deck was originally used and crap ply from Wicks, which should of been hardwood WBP but it just delaminated a the rear deck did.. I made them from 7-8mm thick GRP sheet that i made. Alll sorted now Now other things were to slide flex pipe over the gas pipe thats goes under the rear deck as the batteries are below that and if forgot to do that when i done the gas work. Thats done anyway. Then a few vents around where the charger is. Made a gas cylinder bracket/steady. Just to seal where pipe work and cables goes through the lower bulkhead. So where am i now. Before Op ( 30th April ) BSS work to be done, then when i am off sick i will do what i can with the one arm i have use of, sanding the top deck if i can etc hull work is still to be done. biggest job.. I will be making the canopy after a few weeks resting and had the cast off. Then in hope the canopy is done then first three weeks in June will be sanding and painting the boat. I have bought the fenders, ropes,, new bilge pump to fit when launched as i dont know the low point in the bilge. Oh how can i forget i have got a good price for the cushions which i really want to be done as when launched i want it to be cosy for the first few days cruising. I an going to book the crane in for the 24th June for my birthday well day after. We have the week off to cruise around for a bit. So it all go from now on with this and work.

We've had mostly positive experiences of them over 2 years boating so it can't be all bad.

Just like when you voted for or against Brixit or vote in a council or general election

Because the greater the battery capacity for a given load the lower the degree of discharge, the lower the cyclic hours and thus, as long as you very regularly properly recharge then, the longer the battery life. I suspect that in the end you will find you end up with sub optimal battery life.

I whole heartedly agree....... There are an awful lot of chores and task involved in owning and living on a narrowboat that you just don't have to think about if you are living in a house, if you really love your boat and the lifestyle then those chores might be the little things that make your day awesome but if you are living on a boat because it's a compromise, a means to an ends to get you out of a no longer tolerable situation those tasks might become the thing that make you really unhappy with your lot. From my experience it's the repeated little things that can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. That was a generalisation and not aimed at LG.

I hold you in great esteem, Alan, but we don't need to be analysing Donna this way, just because she isn't a chatty as the rest of us. Copy and pasting from her personal profile page isn't very kind or likely to make her or other less prolific members feel very welcome.

Yet more unwarranted assumptions from Lady G. They may well be on £40K pa, but how do you know what their outgoings are? And why should people on DLA not live on a boat? I know someone who does it quite well. Please stop making assumptions and judgments about people you don't know. You're just making yourself look foolish.

The thing is, if you buy a wreck, you'll be starting with really poor foundations. You don't get an older boat with a great hull, engine and key systems unless someone has looked after all those things, in which case the inside might well be dated but it's not going to be a wreck and hence cause a decent boat to be sold at a weak price. If a boat is "a bit of a wreck", it's most likely simply a wreck, and these should only be bought by those with a combination of at least 2, but preferably all of skills, time and money to sort them out. The only debatably "sensible" folk who do this are enthusiasts who wish to save or restore something special or at least particularly meaningful to them. The canals are littered with unfinished project boats that folk with insufficient skills, time or money have started and may have even improved a bit, but who are now invariably in a worse financial state than when they started, with a partly restored boat few others would want to take on. That's not a club anyone should join blindly. Do life, save up, buy a decent boat when you can truly afford one - there's a reason why most of us have to wait so long to get our boats and why it's so often older folk who seem to have such things. There are, of course, other views!

Unless you have experience of boating, liveaboard boating, and boat fitting, it is quite likely that your first fit out project will have some non optimum attributes! At worse it might be worth less than the cost of materials used (not even thinking about your labour). A new sailaway has much more potential than an old project boat, because a refitted old boat is still exactly that....an old boat. One option is to buy a rough but sound old boat (lots of people are looking for this), live on it whilst making some improvements and honing your skills, then sell it at a profit and buy the sailaway. If you can't make a profit then you have had a couple of years of boating and learned a lesson. ..............Dave

It depends on what you mean by 'a wreck'. A boat is its hull and its engine - the rest is just 'fluff'. For £10k you will not get a boat that is suitable to live on that has a sound hull - you could easily spend another £10k having more steel overplating the Hull. For the price of a sail-away (and the cost of fitting it out) you will get a very good condition 2nd hand boat. If you are not 'boaters' then how do you know what you need, or don't need ? so how can you fit out either a wreck or a sail-away. Buying a boat 'up-and-running' allows you to spend a year or two living with it and finding what works and what doesn't work, in the future you can then build your own boat based on real life experience.

The bit I have put in bold made me laugh! You don't really believe that what is said on here by what is a very small proportion of all boaters represents the view of the majority of boaters, do you? You really need to get out more ? haggis

No doubt one of the follow on questions will be : "Where you near water yesterday ?" A = Yes Then they will correlate your "yesterday I was happy" and "yesterday I was not anxious" and claim that being near water makes you happy and reduces anxiety. - "Making Life Better By Water" - Job-Done !!!

Try washing the carrots first ?

I wish, I read about it a couple of years ago, before I embarked on my first electric boat

He is the perfik customer for a LifePo4 battery in reality. I think you are scared Mike go on have a battery adventure ?

Yeah you tellim, Tumshie. Donna, don't worry about Alan, he's a bit weird. You only have to look at his boat to realise this, with too many hulls and that big stick in the middle. The rest of us here are just fine. Well, most of us.... errr...... some of us. Well me, anyway Oh, and Tumshie, mostly

I wouldn't advise trying to take a camper van through a lock though ? For me locking is one of the greatest pleasures of canalling.

I watched that boat being built, I think it was lined out by Steve the guy that helped build my boat interior

More likely, she thought she should come back in a few days and see if there were any more replies... New members are often taken aback by the pace of things here.

What he said. From 20k you will be able to find a useable older boat with plenty of scope to improve and make something you can be proud of. Working for us anyway!

Its clearly troubling a lot of people here that you only have three batteries, even though you say they work fine!!

Hello, Others have already answered many of your questions. Here is a link to another popular company which, incidentally, seems to be popular with many people from your part of the world. I think the name and the name of their boats may be the reason! http://www.andersenboats.com/ I hope you do decide to make the trip and I am sure whichever company you chose, you will really enjoy the inland waterways of Great Britain. Howard

Another company that has 12 berth boats is www.unioncanalcarriers.co.uk they have been operating boats for large groups for many years. Before we finished some years ago we ran camping boats taking 12 young people on each boat and we had a contact in Denmark who arranged the trips. We sent a coach to Harwich to collect them and from our base near Derby used to take them towards Stoke on Trent. The Wedgwood museum and the Chatterly Whitfield mining museum where great favorites.

Reassemble new exhaust header/gaskets after titivating it with exhaust spray paint baked on. Checked joints etc - no leaks. Not sure how long the VHT paint will last - we shall see.