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If anyone was planning to get out and about breaking ice with their boat today it might be prudent to consider wearing a hard hat in bridgeholes! This is at Kiveton Park on The Chesterfield Canal

Crackers Biscuits, @rusty69 and I are very interested in these technical papers but I am not sure I would pay too much notice of this one. This paper is all about finding a cheaper polyol to use as one of their reactants for the Polyurethane-Polyisocyanurate (PUR-PIR) foams and almost exlcusively targets high temperature stability. Now, maybe high temp stability (viz above 300°C) means higher crosslink density, so a more dense close cell nature, so better longevity to insulation properties. I would urge all readers here to review said paper to convince themselves that other papers may be better. Paper here at. https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/thermal-properties-of-polyurethanepolyisocyanurate-purpir-foamsmodified-with-tris5hydroxypenthyl-citrate-2090-4568-1000148.php?aid=74306 There are a few things I would point to. Firstly this is all about a way to make cheaper polyols. They have only done it in a 3 necked 500ml flask (I would have use a 2 necked flask). There is zero scale up information. You cant comercialise something made in a 3 necked flask (or 2 necked for that case). You need significant scale up eperience which in turn requires a detailed risk assessment. If you are using 2-hydroxypropane-1.2.3-tricarboxylic acid as a reactant, you have to be careful. Secondly, the 2-hydroxypropane-1.2.3-tricarboxylic acid was supplied by Brenntag Poland LLC company in Kędzierzyn Koźle (storage in Toruń). With Brexit so close, I would think the import duty on said intermediate would seriously compromise the economics of scale up. All in all this is a typical university research project (when did university research projects ever create anything useful) and is on a hiding to nothing. Rusty, would you agree? Can you see any other serious issues in the paper?

You need to see a mental health professional

See, I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. I also knew that that particular paper isn't strictly relevant to the discussion, but it is open access and I liked the title.

Oh behave. You don't care about the chemistry! No, it doesn't get any worse once it has lost the magic warm insulating gases from inside it - it just turns into inert foam. It remains as impermeable as it was originally, but having seen quite a few monkey installations of it that doesn't count for much. Actually it is quite interesting (well to me anyway!) because it means that you are actually much better off with well installed Celotex / Kingspan / Whatever Aldi had in last week in the longer term as they have the double foil layer outside the foam. I just had a lightbulb moment

When selling or describing a boat, they seem to grow a bit. When paying for licences they seem to shrink a bit. With moorings, you have to be a bit more accurate if you want it to fit!

I have recently come across the photograph (copywrite Ian McKechnie) below of a pair of independently operated motor's heading for Croxley in May 1970, but it is captioned as Marsworth. This caption can not be correct as these two boats would have gone up Marsworth Locks rather than down. I am thinking Berkhamsted is a more likely contender, but am I right ? (it is a long time since I have been down that way !) Note the interesting looking long shafts laying in the holds, and the motor on the left is pulling from the mast beam as it has no mast.

Yes it is.

I think you win it on that one.

We made a split the difference offer and it was accepted. I don't know if its actually good value or not... but its a much nicer boat than the similar priced and more expensive boats I viewed... so I am pretty happy. Only thing I wish it had is a double garage

I have an all weather cover for mine to keep the drips off. Others may call it a plastic bag.

I dont like to do it but I find myself agreeing more and more with Mrsmelly. I too have a strong feeling that putting a substantial draw on cheap LAs is a significant part of them failing. With our lumpy water boat, we didnt have that 'big draw' other than the anchor windlass (inverter only 300W) and always used that with the engine running. I dont think we were charging our batteries fully every day so good opportunity for sulphation and never ran an equalisation voltage - they lasted 5 years + and then we sold the boat. They were cheap LAs. This boat has cheap LAs but we upped the size to 660Ahrs so it would withstand the deep discharge better ie Mrs Bob's Nesspresso machine. So far after nearly 12 months (with probably 3 months mainly on shore power) I see little if any loss of capacity (based on rest voltage and Ahrs used - plus the odd SG test).

Excellent retort.

Greyfisher measures 62ft without fenders .. Salters lode is a tight squeeze at 62ft ,but can just get in , crossways , with lifted fenders . Bunny

SORRY if the posting of my photo in post 39 & then repeated by Alen in post 41 has offended anyone i truly believed this to be Tom .Alan has pointed out that it is not & also chose to remark on the other person present crime a subject that had not been mentioned in any detail .i have been phoned & told the other family involved are members of this forum & mentioned subject by Alen still leaves a bad taste in some peoples mouths so have asked admin to deleate my photo & remarks from post 39 & 41 IF THIS HAS OFFENDED YOU I AM TRULY SORRY

Well I think it could be any of: Not all cheapo batteries are created equal; There is variation depending on how the batteries were treated before being delivered; Different users have different expectations and usage patterns. For instance, if you only have a couple of glow-worms in a jar and only discharge your batteries by 10% DoD, you can suffer a hell of a lot of lost capacity before it becomes an issue. IMO there is no point in having a 2500w inverter fed by batteries, if those batteries are incapable of allowing the inverter to be run as intended without suffering rapid demise. Whereas with the Trojans, they seem quite happy with the same usage I inflicted on the previous 2 sets of cheapos.

no you're not the only one although I'd remove my tv aerial first as that is the highest / most forward part of my cabin

As someone who grew up on green top milk (raw unpasteurised) anything less than modern blue top is a waste of time for me, just coloured water.

Having been out quite a lot on NBT's pair of Grand Union boats, Nuneaton and Brighton, both about 71' 6", I can say that getting through certain locks is a bit of a squeeze. I'm not an expert on the history, but I think these boats and the Grand Union locks were kind of designed and adapted for each other, and the problems we get tend to be on other canals. I haven't done the North Stratford, but have been along the B&F a few times and don't recall it being too bad. There's one of the locks on Farmers Bridge where Brighton is very tight even with the elum at the best angle tight against the cill, and we use the technique Alan describes of pushing the bow across to make room to open the bottom gate. There are also one or two double locks on the K&A which we can only get through one boat at a time. We know this because we've tried them with the pair, been unable to open the gates and had to refill the lock and pull the butty out. Essentially, you should find that any narrow boat will somehow get through (other than on some northern canals which weren't intended to take a full length boat). I would hope that no-one's been daft enough to build a narrow boat longer than the GU boats! Please don't be put off by a boat being full length, think of all the extra space you get! But do take care in locks, and if you have a modern boat going uphill remember that some gate paddles can deliver a lot of water into your front well deck; there's something to be said for having a cratch cover.

I took on diesel from Mountbatten at Little Venice in 2005. They were topping up the Jason's trip boats too. They'd left Jellico around the corner somewhere empty. The pair later passed me at Cowroast when I was on my way back.

They are a great looking pair, and have a much longer record of being operated by good people. The previous owners, Alan and Tricia were lovely folks. After them, they belonged to a farming couple who seemed very pleasant but the husband appeared to be less keen on the enterprise! Sadly the type of offence has seemingly stuck to the boats unfairly.

OT Many years ago whilst working in the banking sector IT a special product was created for the top 5% of the banks customers this involved creating a mail merge template to send out an invite to the top 5% to join, unfortunately the name merge didn't quite work and all of the selected customers received a letter headed with the developers test heading which read "Dear Rich Basta*d we invite you...." Twasn't me by the way

Nice choice of colours.

A point trying to be made to you is that, whilst you do seem to gnenerally have the right idea about battery charging, you don’t seem to understand the units involved. OK it isn’t going to affect the actual situation but if you use the wrong units when discussing problems with other people, confusion will reign. Imagine if you were discussing a trip,and you kept saying “miles”when you meant “hours”.:It would be really confusing and could result in wrong advice. Battery capacity and the amount of charge used say in a day, is normally measured in amphours. Instantaneous current is measured in amps. Amphours and amp are completely different concepts and if you use the wrong one, there is plenty of scope for confusion and it also tends to make people think you don’t know what you’re talking about. You might as well say you take 90-100 apples out of your battery each day, it would make the same degree of sense! (ie none!).

In that case as long as you are confident in the pressure gauge back to the vendor it must go.

I've never had a surveyor measure the width. Not properly accurately anyway. They just look at it and say "narrow boat"!

I remember when Ara was paired with Aynho on the GU Piling runs in the 1960's. Crewed by Billy Brown and Dolly Dakin plus hordes of children, they were possibly the scruffiest pair of boats on the system.

Congratulations. Have 1000 biscuits as a prize for your 1000th post (don't eat them all at once)

There are some locks which are known to be short and fenders have to be lifted to work through them with a full length boat. A couple that spring to mind are the staircase locks at Brades on the BCN and Bishop's Meadow in Loughborough. The latter is a broad lock but its difficult for two 70ft boats to go through together. The good new is that the leaking top gates have been repaired.

Grand Union boats are 71 ft 6 in long over the hull with rudder and fenders in addition. So any boat described as 70ft will almost certainly be shorter.

Marinas etc do go for overall length (inc. fenders ) when charging. When you buy your boat your surveyor will measure it length and width. If it turns out to be close to 70ft then you certainly need to be aware.

No need to spend any money to read a BSI or ISO etc standard you know! Just go to Manchester City Libraries (MCL) Online Reference library (ideally you should become a member as I have and (I think) uniquely MCL offers library membership to ANY UK resident). From there they provide a link to British Stds Online (BSOL) (MCL pays for the BSOL access licence! Thank you MCL!). Enter the Std no of your choice in the BSOL search box and when the titles come up you'll see a little icon on the far right of it (Quick View). Click this and a read only .pdf will come up of the Std's full text. I've just had a look at BS EN 50291-2 and the paragraphs relating to Recreational Craft are in deed interesting and definitely relate to salty boats ie the alarm must stand up to all sorts of vibration, heel angles, crashing about in waves, salt water splashing about, even non interference with marine VHF etc etc. Have a read for yourself! Richard

It sure is. I get the diet version cos its easier to lift.

I think you mean your veldt like figure - an area covering about a third of South Africa

Obviously. You wouldn't send an elephant out of the room without a small hairpiece/wig, not in this weather.

New Mills was kept as an asset, but let to Pridewater on terms that required significant investment in the facilities. Keep the properties, lease them to people who can update and run marinas better than BWML, collect the rent and the NAA fees. Someone will take them up on it for the right price, which might be a good thing. I have not been overly impressed with the BWML marinas we have visited over the years compared to some of the private marinas, but I may be biased because our nearest is White Bear!

BWML are widely known in the marina business to be making a poor return on their capital. So, let us say the business is worth £50m and produces an income to CART of £1m a year. That might well continue for the next 5 years. It is unlikely to produce much more money because BWML have been trying unsuccessfully to make bigger returns, through buying marinas to spread their overhead wider and other initiatives. CRT's property department are quite successful and their view will be that if CART sell BWML they can then invest the £50m in offices and stuff and that will make more than £ 1m a year in profit. If that is the case then CRT would be silly to keep an underperforming asset which it has failed to turn round. This is the same principle, born of the realisation that the charitable public won't cough up enough money to make CART viable in the long term without a big Guvmint grant or other income , that led CART to borrow £150m to invest in property. They think they can make enough income to pay the interest on the bonds and have something left over to support CRT's other activities. When the bonds need repaying they will probably just issue some more to pay off the old ones, or if interest rates are high, sell off some of property they bought with the money raised by the bonds. With luck the capital value of the property will also have gone up/been inflated so they won't need to sell everything they bought with the bond money. This is pretty standard corporate finance. N

Selling BWML has several attractions for CRT: BWML's return on capital is poor and CRT believe that investing the sale proceeds in commercial property will produce a better return in the same way that they expect to get a return on their bond sales. Selling BWML gets the private marinas off their back for 'unfair competition'. Running BWML is not core to being the waterways custodian and selling it removes a management distraction / removes a tempting target for the vultures when it all goes pear shaped in a few years. N

Congratulations on your 10000th post Tony.

Roger Barrington Wright ran a hire boat company called Barrington Boats out of Stenson Marina. Built by Sam Springer at Market Harborough, to a higher than normal spec., the boats were mostly 56 feet long and fitted with Sabb marine engines (not to be confused with SAAB!). I believe fitted out by British Rail staff and painted in British Rail colours, and therein lies a court case! They were all named after trees, but I know not why, hope this is helpful. He sold the fleet off around 1981/2, I should know, I bought one and lived aboard for four years.