TC5

Hi bottle My boat will be fitted out by a boat builder, however my electrical power system starts with a 16kw three phase 230vac Mastervolt generator, and my intention was to power everything from 230 vac. In reality the horn, water pump and shower evacuation pump and emergency lighting will be powered by 28v dc. Because of my extensive use of mains power it has been agreed with the boatbuilder that I will be responsible for all the electrical instalation - I have 45yrs of experience as an electrician working on miltary aircraft. I will be employing a "Mastervolt" electrician to certify the instalation and testing of the electrics, this I am assured will be acceptable to the boat surveyor. I just find some of the rules and regulations are out of date with modern concepts but I have reached the conclusion that I will have to go with the flow to obtain certification. Cheers TC

Hi Maverick It is difficult to say as I suspect you are measuring your starter battery "off load". What gives a better indication of the condition of your batttery is to measure the voltage when it is under a substantial load. If all the cables are in good order then I would suggest that your starter battery for some reason is not being charged up. I would suggest you start the engine with both batteries switched on then turn your leisure battery off then measure your starter battery voltage to see if it is receiving a charge - should be around 13.8v Cheers TC

I am having an all electric 60ft narrow boat built. My plan is to run the "Hotel" services from a 5kw, 230v ac invertor, the output has two wires - phase and neutral, no earth. It would be impossible to receive an electric shock from touching one of the wires - no earth return, therefor there is no point in having a RCB in the distribution box. I have looked at the BSS guide lines and find them a bit vague to say the least. Chap 3 refers to the BMEA " Code of Practice for "Electrical & Electronic Installations in Small Craft ". I contacted BMAE and they requested £85 for a copy of the Code, I consider this to be outrageous, if one is expected to comply with a code then it should be freely available to follow. Does anybody know of any regulations for electrical instalation on boats that are freely available? Cheers TC

I am having an all electric 60ft narrowboat built. Part of the set up is to have a 28v dc 1000ahr battery installed, The battery will consist of 12 x 2volt traction cells - "mastervolt", one of the main advantages of this type of cell is that they are maintenance free and charging does not result in gas production. However discusions with BSS engineers infere that the battery will have to be stored in a sealed, ventalated area, despite the manufacture stateing that they are gas free. Does anybody have any similar experiences. Cheers TC

Hi Blackrose Thanks for the figures, I shall have to do some calculations on my motor as it is a 3phase 410vac motor. I tend to agree with you about the possible issue of distribution of power, if this turns out to be the case then I shall have to concider up grading my bowthruster motor. Cheers TC Hi Bottle I am coming round to that way of thinking, one of the first things that I plan to try, is to enclose the tube. Cheers TC Hi Ian Thanks for the figures, they will help me in my research Cheers TC

Hi Bazza Thanks for the tip, I shall include that obsevation of yours on my next trial Cheers TC

Hi First some background information. I have spent the last four years on and off designing my 60 foot all electric narrow boat. The shell is complete and afloat and fitted with a Mastervolt Whisper Gen Set that provides 16kva, 3 phase (delta), 50htz, 230/410vac. 11kva is used to power the drive and bowthruster motors, the remaining 5kva will power the domestics. Last week the shell was taken out for its second trial: the main motor an aerodynamic pod replacing the rudder: containing a 3 phase squirrell cage (no brushes) electric motor - with the prop on tha same shaft (minimal mechanical losses) performed superbly. With a crusie speed of approximatley 3mph the motor was only useing a tenth of its potential, and the stopping power was very impressive and quick. However the bowthruster failed to hold the boat in very windy conditions, it produced a large amount of bubbly water with very little effective force, the shell had sufficient ballast in to keep the six inch bowthruster tube submerged at all times. My questions are: 1. Should a bowthruster be capable of holding against a strong wind, or am I asking to much? 2. What is the power rating of a normal 60 foot narrow boat bowthruster? 3. My bowthruster tube has a very tall (about 18 inches above the top of the tube) weed hatch. During the trials I noticed that the proeller had about 8-10 inches head of water, is this sufficient or should the tube be water tight? Cheers TC

Hi I am considering various options for lighting my yet to be built narrow boat. I favour the use of small flourescent tubes behind pelmets, I am also thinking of down lighters. The quartz halogen variety provide excellent light but I have concerns about heat disipation within the confines of the roof. Does anyone have experience of this type of light and does it discolour the wood with time? I have been doing research into LED's with some success but find that the light spread is very narrow. The great advantage of LED's is next to no power consumption and no heat generation. Cheers TC

Echo I suspect you have a problem with your electrical instalation or the quality of your equipment. A quality gel battery made up from 2v cells to achieve 28v 700ah, should when connected to a quality inverter (5kva) be more than capable of running a 230v fridge for at least 10 days. Cheer TC

Mark Yes I have carried out an electrical energy audit but I am not sure how to include it in this reply. If you would like to ping me an E Mail on "mail@trevorcole.eclipse.co.uk" I'll send you a copy cheers TC

Hi I have been doing research into an all electric boat for some time now and have reached the conclusion that due to the dearth of shore line power points it is not realy viable. If you are prepared to give up a lot of space for batteries ( a double bed ) and a larg amount of money ( 5 figuers ) then it could be possible. I have given in and settled for a Beta Marine BV2203S, but I will have a 230v ac system on the boat. Cheers TC

Hi Richard Thanks for the information, I have just realised that my calculation of 2.6ah/day is at 230v ac. So 2.6ah x 230v = 598wh. 598wh / 24v dc = 24.9ah/day: say plus 10% for inverter losses 24.9ah + 2.4ah = 27.3ah/day. This is the figure that I would expect. I plan to power the 230v ac system from shore or a 9kva whisper gen or a 5kva inverter hooked up to a 24v dc 600ah battery. The main engine will have a 110amp dc alternator for charging whist cruising. The plan is for the 9kva whisper gen to cut in automaticaly ( between the hours of 0800 - 1800 ) when the battery is 48% discharged. Thus if we moor up for a few days there is no need to run the main engine for battery charging. Cheers TC

Martin A very good point obvious when you think about it, I would never have thought that one out. By the way I am planning to fit a 100gallon tank to run a Beta engine / Domestic boiler / Whisper Generator. I considered having the tank built with two seperate compartments but have decided not to. I think it will be extremmly difficult to enforce "red diesel" only for heating and will cross that bridge if and when it happens Cheers TC

Hi Dave You do not say what your domestic battery dc voltage is, from the information provided I am inclined to think it is 12v dc. I base the following calculations on the fact that the boatbuilder installed the correct wattage inverter. If in doubt you would need to do some research and calculations in order to establish an "amphour/day" figure required to support your domestic consumption. There are a lot of "ifs & buts" as to how to obtain an "amphour" figure which is a product of current (amps) drawn and time (hours) switched on during a day. Another factor to consider is that in a given day you will not use all of your appliances, so to obtain a more realistic figure work out the time on a weekly basis then divide by seven for an average daily rate. For instance when working out my requirements for the dread maker - it draws 2.2a and runs for 4hrs so the amphours for the day are 2.2 x 4 = 8.8ahr/day , but this unit is only used once a week. So the ahr/wk would be the same 8.8ahr/wk. I did not intend to go this deep but a good understanding of the electrical system is essential if you are after reliability. Back to your problem of a discharged battery. Based on Mastervolts information ( who I consider to be the Rolls Royce of boat electrics, very expensive but very reliable) the size of the battery you require to run your inverter is 100ah per 1kw for a 24v dc. So for 1.5kw inverter you would need 1.5 x 100 = 150ah at 24v dc. If you are running a 12v dc system then you would require a 300ah 12v dc battery, so I would suggest that your battery is not man enough for the job at 220ah. Cheers TC Feel free to contact me by "E Mail" if you require more information: mail@trevorcole.eclipse.co.uk