new boat any ideas?

[Nige123]

Ok so I have my new boat coming in 6 weeks it's a 60ftX12ft & let me say up front that I have had a wide-beam & a narrow boat in the past so this is not a new thing for me Just I wanted to pick your brains to see if you have any ideas that I can use to make our new home just that bit better....

 

I am fitting things like a water filter system to run the washer/dryer as the water tank is only 120 gallons so running the washer/dryer a few times in the winter could empty the water tank so why not use (clean) river water to wash clothes?

 

I also want to make my own 240v power & will be fitting 600/800 watts of Solar as I have lots of roof space......

 

I also want to have a Honda eu30 generator on board that runs on LPG & would like advice on stashing this in the engine bay... with the exhaust exiting through hull (as it does on my old boat) so how safe is the LPG conversions on this generator? (Honda fitted one not ebay china crap)

 

I will be fitting a pole mount on the roof at the front to fit a small crane, drying round thing, TV aerial, Pirate flag what ever......

 

any other points I may want to consider that you have found from life afloat????

Edited January 22, 2015 by Nige123

[Nickhlx]

Wow - sounds like a palace ! Bet you can't wait !

 

 

Nick

[Alan de Enfield]

Liveaboard or leisure ? =different rules apply re LPG installations

 

There are restriction / rules re running LPG piping through the engine bay so there may well be restrictions on running LPG gennerators in the engine bay.

 

Rather than 'guess' I'd suggest you ask BSS directly as you do not want to get it all installed to find that you fail the BSS and have to rip it all out.

[Nige123]

has anyone fitted car reversing cameras to the front of a boat to see what part of the lock your going to slam into?

Liveaboard or leisure ? =different rules apply re LPG installations

 

There are restriction / rules re running LPG piping through the engine bay so there may well be restrictions on running LPG gennerators in the engine bay.

 

Rather than 'guess' I'd suggest you ask BSS directly as you do not want to get it all installed to find that you fail the BSS and have to rip it all out.

Thanks yes it is to live on full time.... if it's a problem I may just have to make a mounting so it hangs off the back end but this looks rubbish.....

Wow - sounds like a palace ! Bet you can't wait !

 

 

Nick

Yes Nick it's very cool.... its a new Euro Cruiser that we are building to be a bit 1950's retro (1957 Chevy look about it) style..... will post some pictures in a year or so when we have it all sorted...

[Pete & Helen]

I would think that LPG in an engine bay was a bit of a No No. If you think about the rules for gas lockers, you have to have a drain at the bottom (which would cause you a small problem in the bottom of the engine bay ) and no gaps in the bulkhead in case of leakage as LPG is heavier than air.

As Alan pointed out above you need to talk to the people that make the rules on this on.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Pete & Helen

[blackrose]

I have some pictures of a locker I made for a Honda EU30i on the back deck of my widebeam. I'll try to post them later when I'm back at my laptop.

 

However, if you really want to do things properly you'll have to spend a lot more money and fit a diesel generator in your engine space.

[Nige123]

I have some pictures of a locker I made for a Honda EU30i on the back deck of my widebeam. I'll try to post them later when I'm back at my laptop.

 

However, if you really want to do things properly you'll have to spend a lot more money and fit a diesel generator in your engine space.

Yes I know about the diesel generators but the noise makes them a problem... the eu30 is a petrol one that can be used on LPG (or LPG that can be used on petrol)

 

LPG generators have a lower noise then petrol & are way lower then diesel generators, the other thing is LPG tanks last longer & you don't spill petrol all over when refuelling....

 

Would be fab to see some photo's of your set up & I may just end up welding some brackets to hold it on the back of the boat...

Edited January 22, 2015 by Nige123

[Paul C]

Have I got this right?

 

1. Petrol powered generator, portable - okay

2. LPG powered generator, portable - okay (but gas connection is an issue.....)

3. LPG powered generator permanently fixed - comes under BSS, which prohibits install in engine space --> needs its own compartment separate from engine space

4. diesel powered generator permanently fixed - comes under BSS, but could co-exist in the engine space with a diesel engine already in there?

5. diesel powered portable generator - good luck lifting one!

 

Obviously there's things like pipework, exhaust, etc which are also checked for its BSS.

[Nige123]

I would think that LPG in an engine bay was a bit of a No No. If you think about the rules for gas lockers, you have to have a drain at the bottom (which would cause you a small problem in the bottom of the engine bay ) and no gaps in the bulkhead in case of leakage as LPG is heavier than air.

As Alan pointed out above you need to talk to the people that make the rules on this on.

I would think a fan like petrol powered boats would be a must & I would fit one anyway to get rid of heat....

Have I got this right?

 

1. Petrol powered generator, portable - okay

2. LPG powered generator, portable - okay (but gas connection is an issue.....)

3. LPG powered generator permanently fixed - comes under BSS, which prohibits install in engine space --> needs its own compartment separate from engine space

4. diesel powered generator permanently fixed - comes under BSS, but could co-exist in the engine space with a diesel engine already in there?

5. diesel powered portable generator - good luck lifting one!

 

Obviously there's things like pipework, exhaust, etc which are also checked for its BSS.

ok as I thought so what about petrol generators in engine rooms?

[Paul C]

I would think a fan like petrol powered boats would be a must & I would fit one anyway to get rid of heat....

ok as I thought so what about petrol generators in engine rooms?

 

I guess the BSS has something to say about it, worth looking at the regs themselves.

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/194782/2013ecp_private%20_boats_ed3_public_final.pdf

 

Having had a brief flick through, I can't see a way to do it unless there was a separate fuel tank (to prevent fuel entering the engine bay if/when filled/spilled). So you'd need to comply with all the regulations for a fuel tank. I didn't read it all, but I believe the engine space would then need to comply with all the additional rules for petrol engines (ie over & above diesel installations). Would be an interesting task to go through all the regs, and your engine space, and cost out the changes required.

[blackrose]

Yes I know about the diesel generators but the noise makes them a problem... the eu30 is a petrol one that can be used on LPG (or LPG that can be used on petrol)

 

LPG generators have a lower noise then petrol & are way lower then diesel generators, the other thing is LPG tanks last longer & you don't spill petrol all over when refuelling....

 

Would be fab to see some photo's of your set up & I may just end up welding some brackets to hold it on the back of the boat...

Proper 1500rpm cocooned marine diesel generators aren't noisy, but they are very expensive.

 

http://www.energy-solutions.co.uk/nl-generators.html

 

The only trouble with running a petrol generator on gas is that it raises cylinder head temperatures and the generator will require more frequent servicing. I've also spoken to Honda's technical dept about this and they told me that running a generator on gas may void their 5 year warranty if it's established that was the cause of the problem.

Edited January 22, 2015 by blackrose

[Nige123]

 

I guess the BSS has something to say about it, worth looking at the regs themselves.

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/194782/2013ecp_private%20_boats_ed3_public_final.pdf

 

Having had a brief flick through, I can't see a way to do it unless there was a separate fuel tank (to prevent fuel entering the engine bay if/when filled/spilled). So you'd need to comply with all the regulations for a fuel tank. I didn't read it all, but I believe the engine space would then need to comply with all the additional rules for petrol engines (ie over & above diesel installations). Would be an interesting task to go through all the regs, and your engine space, and cost out the changes required.

ok so that's out then generator will have to sit up front right outside our bedroom.....only really need to use it when doing the washing/drying... many thanks

[Nige123]

Proper 1500rpm cocooned marine diesel generators aren't noisy, but they are very expensive.

 

http://www.energy-solutions.co.uk/nl-generators.html

 

The only trouble with running a petrol generator on gas is that it raises cylinder head temperatures and the generator will require more frequent servicing. I've also spoken to Honda's technical dept about this and they told me that running a generator on gas may void their 5 year warranty if it's established that was the cause of the problem.he font well

yes I have seen a few on ebay for sale for under £2k but it's the ass of running water in & round the engine then out with the exhaust & the glub glub slosh noise plus they cost tons to fix if you can find parts etc etc the EU Honda range has lots of parts about & you can even link 2 to double the output (eu20 + eu20 + eu40)

 

I have an eu10 at the moment & it always works & sits next to the engine (Eberspcher exhaust tubing through hull) all you can hear outside is faint purring.....

 

I think I will just chain it in the front well & exhaust it through the side I can use the gas locker to stash an LPG bottle to run it & at boat safety times remove it all & play stupid....

 

Would have been nice in engine bay as the Eu30 is electric start & I wouldn't have to go out in the cold to start it.... now I'm gona have to go into the bedroom to start the thing.... (Poor me)

[Paul C]

Have you looked at a Travelpower?

 

...Or, a large alternator + decent size inverter? It will do more/less the same thing (but with the added complexity of 12V wiring between each device) and also offer a time/battery bank size/battery health/battery longevity limited opportunity to supply a similar amount of power while the engine isn't running, for example after 8pm or before 8am.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Paul C

[Nige123]

Have you looked at a Travelpower?

 

...Or, a large alternator + decent size inverter? It will do more/less the same thing (but with the added complexity of 12V wiring between each device) and also offer a time/battery bank size/battery health/battery longevity limited opportunity to supply a similar amount of power while the engine isn't running, for example after 8pm or before 8am.

yes I thought about Travlepower but it seems stupid to run 2.7ltr engine to run a washer/fryer..... the boat has twin alternators one is 115amp so may keep up with the 2kw inverter but just like a back up plan....

[Paul C]

When you compare the costs of a properly installed built in generator with a Travelpower installation, it starts making sense. The other option is to do what most people do - use a portable petrol generator placed on the bank and hooked up to the boat.

[mrsmelly]

Ok so I have my new boat coming in 6 weeks it's a 60ftX12ft & let me say up front that I have had a wide-beam & a narrow boat in the past so this is not a new thing for me Just I wanted to pick your brains to see if you have any ideas that I can use to make our new home just that bit better....

 

I am fitting things like a water filter system to run the washer/dryer as the water tank is only 120 gallons so running the washer/dryer a few times in the winter could empty the water tank so why not use (clean) river water to wash clothes?

 

I also want to make my own 240v power & will be fitting 600/800 watts of Solar as I have lots of roof space......

 

I also want to have a Honda eu30 generator on board that runs on LPG & would like advice on stashing this in the engine bay... with the exhaust exiting through hull (as it does on my old boat) so how safe is the LPG conversions on this generator? (Honda fitted one not ebay china crap)

 

I will be fitting a pole mount on the roof at the front to fit a small crane, drying round thing, TV aerial, Pirate flag what ever......

 

any other points I may want to consider that you have found from life afloat????

Hi

 

Hope you love the new boat. We sold our widebeam last week and have gone narrow again. In the future we may go wide again depending on lifestyle choice. The best bit of kit in my opinion on either wide or narrow is an electrolux/dometic travel power unit on the min engine. We have one again on this boat so when cruising you can do all domestic chores and charging etc in one hit.

Solar is as you know also great in the summer.

I would not be without a solid fuel stove apart from that most other stuff is down to personal choice. In my own opinion of course I wud put the three top of the list waste of money items as

Dishwasher

Freezer

Bow thruster

but hey ho each to their own, Just one point thats a hell of a tiny tank for a widebeam? my widebeam had 250 gals and a bowthruster why is that?

Sounds a fab boat.

 

Tim

[Alan de Enfield]

Nige123, on 22 Jan 2015 - 5:15 PM, said:

 

I have an eu10 at the moment & it always works & sits next to the engine (Eberspcher exhaust tubing through hull) all you can hear outside is faint purring.....

 

 

 

Petrol engine operating in the engine 'ole, (presumably fully fitted with bilge blower etc etc).- and not in place when the BSS surveyor visits ?

 

I guess thats one of the better ways to void your insurance policy.

[blackrose]

Here are a few pictures of my generator locker.

 

There are (at least) 3 prerequisites of any air-cooled generator locker:

 

1: To deter thieves. My locker is made of aluminium bolted to the deck and bolted together with s/steel bolts and security nuts. Steel would have been better for security but I don't weld and making it out of steel was too difficult for me. Aluminium won't corrode and once it's properly painted I think most opportunists would assume it's made of steel.

 

2: To keep rain off the generator. I added extra lengths of aluminium angle to help keep the rain off which you can see in the third picture. It doesn't get wet at all now even in real downpours.

 

3: To allow the generator to stay cool. Air cooled generators can't be boxed in because they get too hot (another reason why you can't run an EU30i in your engine space). I once tried to run a EU10i in a ventilated steel locker with a fan running over the top to cool it down, but it didn't work. The generator got far too hot. My locker is basically open to the air so the generator stays cool.

 

The other thing that needs to be designed in is a way to refuel it in-situ and a way remove the generator from the locker for servicing. I don't recommend that others refuel petrol generators on their boats, but I have a dedicated locker for petrol and my deck is 12ft wide. The boat control pedestal side of the locker is made from a solid sheet of aluminium rather than being open, so fumes should go overboard rather than into the boat.

 

It makes a nice seat for crew too!

 

 

Edited January 22, 2015 by blackrose

[Nige123]

 

Petrol engine operating in the engine 'ole, (presumably fully fitted with bilge blower etc etc).- and not in place when the BSS surveyor visits ?

 

I guess thats one of the better ways to void your insurance policy.

well I'm a bit of a rebel & it's all been fine for the last 4/5 years on my old boat & lets not forget I have loads ov money.....

[Nige123]

Hi

 

Hope you love the new boat. We sold our widebeam last week and have gone narrow again. In the future we may go wide again depending on lifestyle choice. The best bit of kit in my opinion on either wide or narrow is an electrolux/dometic travel power unit on the min engine. We have one again on this boat so when cruising you can do all domestic chores and charging etc in one hit.

Solar is as you know also great in the summer.

I would not be without a solid fuel stove apart from that most other stuff is down to personal choice. In my own opinion of course I wud put the three top of the list waste of money items as

Dishwasher

Freezer

Bow thruster

but hey ho each to their own, Just one point thats a hell of a tiny tank for a widebeam? my widebeam had 250 gals and a bowthruster why is that?

Sounds a fab boat.

 

Tim

Hi I've gone wide beam, narrow, wide beam again..... I know 120 gal water tank is rubbish & the black tank was only 250 gal so I've ordered that to be the biggest they can get in the boat as I don't want to sit X legged all winter..... I may be fitting a filter system up front that cleans 120 gal per day to top up the main tank.... I don't drink the tank water & will have a 3rd tap on the sink for drinking water.... dish washer is me..... I am fitting a Retro Service fridge/freezer a bit like a Smeg one but cheaper & don't bust all the time, this has the freezer on top (cold air falls down to chill fridge) & is A+ rated my 12v one is rubbish so going 240v again this time.... Bow thrusters come as standard on the boat so I get to play with a new toy???? I may look into travelpower or maybe just another 200amp alternator it has a 115amp & 80amp as standard... I do like the EU Honda's as the power is very clean so no issues with TV's PC's etc

[Nige123]

Here are a few pictures of my generator locker.

 

There are (at least) 3 prerequisites of any air-cooled generator locker:

 

1: To deter thieves. My locker is made of aluminium bolted to the deck and bolted together with s/steel bolts and security nuts. Steel would have been better for security but I don't weld and making it out of steel was too difficult for me. Aluminium won't corrode and once it's properly painted I think most opportunists would assume it's made of steel.

 

2: To keep rain off the generator. I added extra lengths of aluminium angle to help keep the rain off which you can see in the third picture. It doesn't get wet at all now even in real downpours.

 

3: To allow the generator to stay cool. Air cooled generators can't be boxed in because they get too hot (another reason why you can't run an EU30i in your engine space). I once tried to run a EU10i in a ventilated steel locker with a fan running over the top to cool it down, but it didn't work. The generator got far too hot. My locker is basically open to the air so the generator stays cool.

 

The other thing that needs to be designed in is a way to refuel it in-situ and a way remove the generator from the locker for servicing. I don't recommend that others refuel petrol generators on their boats, but I have a dedicated locker for petrol and my deck is 12ft wide. The boat control pedestal side of the locker is made from a solid sheet of aluminium rather than being open, so fumes should go overboard rather than into the boat.

 

It makes a nice seat for crew too!

 

 

Cool looks well made & very pro built..... I have seating all round the back of my boat so that won't work on mine

I may have to just stick mine up front & run a lead to the shore power inlet up the back....or run a cable inside to the inverter/charger...... shame as I have an outside 240v outlet up front....

Edited January 22, 2015 by Nige123

[Neil Smith]

You could run a 240 v cable under gunnells from bow to stern if you have a void like I have for cables.

 

Neil

[Nige123]

You could run a 240 v cable under gunnells from bow to stern if you have a void like I have for cables.

 

Neil

it's ok I am an electrician by trade so I can run some cable from front to back just more work.....