Sanimarine Motor Running slow

[Biggles]

I've just looked at a friends Sanimarine 12v toilet. The problem seems to be the brushes on the motor. I have rung lee sanitation for a repair / service kit but was told there is none and the unit is scrap. I find this pretty hard to believe, so was wondering if anyone out there has knowledge of this motor or indeed 12v motors for a rebuild.

 

I like the rest of us here hate waste and apart from this the rest of the toilet is fine. Q comments from cassette fans.

 

It's got to be fixable.

[Keith M]

Does the motor have any identifications markings

So the manufacture can be approached directly

 

Keith

[Pete & Helen]

You have the same mind set as I do and doesn't it annoy the hell out of you when you have to replace a whole unit just for the sake of one small component.

 

If you cant get hold of the info on the brushes then take it to bits and measure the old ones and I am sure you will find something the same on e-bay (other auction sites are available :-) ) or some you can cut down

Looks like there is no UK service but this is their "contact us" web page which you can post the question to them http://www.sanimarin.com/en_GB/contact-us

[Biggles]

I haven't got the motor out yet and it have had new brushes made before its a 10 year old unit and is held in by 10 years of "stuff". I want to see if anyone had already done it first before I get down and dirty.

[Kae]

When I investigated our toilet "problem" I found that spares are easier to find in the US than here in the UK and patent parts for motors were easier to find.

 

Fortuantely, our problems turned out to be a knackered joker valve rather than the motor.

[BlueStringPudding]

My loo is a SaniMarin. Although supplied by Lee Sanitation back in the nineties I'm pretty sure it was American or French Canadian or something like that. So it may be worth looking for spares out that way on the interweb.

 

Mine is the SaniMarin C-43 12v macerator loo. Also discontinued. You can tell if it's one of those because It has a small plastic push button on the left hand side of the porcelain at the rear top edge. If that's the model knowing it might help you locate a replacement part.

When I investigated our toilet "problem" I found that spares are easier to find in the US than here in the UK and patent parts for motors were easier to find.

 

Fortuantely, our problems turned out to be a knackered joker valve rather than the motor.

 

Mine turned out to be build up of scale in the pipes and a knackered O-ring, rather than owt wrong with the motor.

[Biggles]

It is a C43. I am going to investigate it further. No way am I going to let them pay out £100's when a new set of brushes will cost about a tenner.

[steve hayes]

Sounds like the problem we had with ours

It was an easy fix - honestly

Take the plastic pump assembly off the the pan and split it open, you need a gentle persuasion with a screwdriver and lift the motor / pump assembly out.

You will need to prise the strainer basket off from over the pump impeller and then remove the chopper / impeller by removing a circlip, careful you don't loose the small drive pin that fits through the motor shaft.

Now the harder bit, you need to go round the motor casing slowly and un-clip the end casing, this is a slow bit by bit process but it will come off.

You will now see the four brushes mounted on a plate.

What I found was that one of the springs that push the brushes in had gone soft (overheated) and that brush wasn't making contact to the commutators. I removed a good spring and found suitable replacements and replaced all four springs.

Cleaned up the commutator and reassembled the brush plate.

Putting it back together is a simple case of reversing the dis-assembly (in the best of Haynes manual traditions)

And bingo the loo working as new, and still is over a year later.

Edited November 28, 2013 by steve hayes

[Phil.]

Try www.pumpmaster.co.uk or freephone 0800 292 2542. Saniflo/Sanimarin service and repairs also states will give free advice.

[Biggles]

This afternoon I pressure washed the inside of the motor chamber and removed the motor assy. It was caked in limescale to the extent that in some parts there was 5mm thickness . I have scraped all this off and in the morning I will soak it in a mild acid to fully descale it.

 

I have connected it up to battery and now it spins like mad with some force now so am wondering it further disassembly is needed. I suppose as I have come this far I might as well.

 

There is a screw cap on the motor and I am wondering what this is for. Should this motor be run in oil of some sort as there is none left in there.

 

I know what you mean about that pin. Its very loose in its hole. I nearly lost it.

 

I really wish I'd photographed it as it was so caked in scale you can only guess at it.

 

I think a routine descaling is probably a good idea but not sure what to recommend. I think Lee Sanitation do a descaling kit, but it can only be some form of acid.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Biggles

[steve hayes]

Don't be fooled by the free spinning in air, I fell for this on my first foray into the smelly place

 

IIRC the motor cables come out of one of the caps and the other one is very useful to leave off to allow air in (and out) of the casing as you remove the end over (and replace it).

 

I just scrapped all the scale of the casing, but I think Killrock would probably work well.

 

Edited for finger trouble (again)

Edited November 30, 2013 by steve hayes

[Biggles]

I got to the brushes. They were barely worn but were a bit gummed up in their mounts which I freed up.

 

 

I have done a wet test with just water and all seems well so it needs to go back into service to see if the fix has worked.

 

The mechanism it totally different to the new macerator toilets as I have on my boat. The mashing head on mine is much easier to get to and looks a bit like a round cheese grater. This one has SS knives on it. I suspect this one might be a bit more accepting on wrong things down it than mine.

[steve hayes]

This one has SS knives on it. I suspect this one might be a bit more accepting on wrong things down it than mine.

 

Same as ours, thought I was going to have to strip down after herself put a wet wipe down

Had a few days of out of balance rumblings, but luckily it was ejected

[ditchcrawler]

Plenty of tension in the brush springs?

[tree monkey]

This afternoon I pressure washed the inside of the motor chamber and removed the motor assy. It was caked in limescale to the extent that in some parts there was 5mm thickness . I have scraped all this off and in the morning I will soak it in a mild acid to fully descale it.

 

I have connected it up to battery and now it spins like mad with some force now so am wondering it further disassembly is needed. I suppose as I have come this far I might as well.

 

There is a screw cap on the motor and I am wondering what this is for. Should this motor be run in oil of some sort as there is none left in there.

 

I know what you mean about that pin. Its very loose in its hole. I nearly lost it.

 

I really wish I'd photographed it as it was so caked in scale you can only guess at it.

 

I think a routine descaling is probably a good idea but not sure what to recommend. I think Lee Sanitation do a descaling kit, but it can only be some form of acid.

 

BSP here (in monkey clothing)

 

Having had my loo serviced last month, I can tell you the descaler you need is LeeScale from Lee Sanitation (not cheap). You flush it through the whole system (not just the motor) and leave for 72 hours for a full on descale. My system too had some pipes reduced in diameter by nearly half due to scale.

 

They recommend you descale at least every 6 months. I will from now on and have already bought some of the descaler. My regular flushes through of vinegar clearly weren't enough to keep it all clear.

Edited December 1, 2013 by tree monkey

[nb Innisfree]

Due to freezing damage we replaced our bladed SaniMarin with the later cheese grater type, much quieter, mainly I think because it does away with the noisy plastic macerator box and uses a simple flexible rubber casing instead, less likely for limescale to form any thickness.

 

We always do a regular descale with Kilrock, easier to get hold of than Leesan stuff which is only descaling acid anyway. Vinegar or lemon juice is a waste of time IMO.

 

ETA: We descale with hot water and a strong acid solution, leave it over night. Satisfying to see the limescale fizzing away, just be careful you don't splash your nether regions!

Edited December 1, 2013 by nb Innisfree

[Biggles]

I recently changed my flexible hose to holding tank (search my blog) with a solid hose. After about 1 year of pt. time use it was well caked in lime scale. I think regular de-scaling is essential and I am going to research this further and report back.

 

The thing with de-scaling is it takes time with a fully charged and loaded system. So to do a reasonable de-scale the system has to be charged with de-scale chemical then left to work for a few days.

 

The box I have just worked on has a hand written label inside stating last service info of 2004 so as this was previously a hire boat and now on its 2nd owner in the big scale (not that kind) of things probably the systems are pretty robust and reliable.

 

Nothing lasts forever (accept a diamond maybe). 9 years without attention with 2 full time liveaboards + regular guests I'd say the system is almost bullet proof.

 

I let 3 basement flats with mains powered saniflo systems (same system as sanimarine). In 30 + service years of daily use only idiocy or malicious use has caused problems.

[BlueStringPudding]

My system is on an ex hire boat too and has been going strong 15 years except slowing down last month due to limescale build up. And that's now sorted. As I've got a steel holding tank which is integral to the hull, I'd be wary of using any old acid as a descaler having read a few horror stories about corrosion on other websites. I know that some purpose made descaling products include inhibitors that help protect metal from the effects of the acid. According to my boatyard Lee Sanitation assured them that their product is safe on steel tanks. I'm sure a number of others are too but probably worth checking depending on their tank set up.

[nb Innisfree]

It's normally formic acid or phosphoric acid, both occur naturally and are used as food additives, Coca Cola contains phophoric acid. Formic acid is corrosive to various alloys including some stainless steels, best to rinse anything thoroughly after a descale and ideally chuck it away unless it goes into a plastic holding tank.

 

ETA: Leesan stopped using stainless steel holding tanks after finding them corroding through from the inside, like aluminium s/s needs oxygen to form a protective layer of corrosion to prevent any further corrosion, being underwater and short of oxygen doesn't help matters. Tanks need to be the correct grade of s/s.

Edited December 1, 2013 by nb Innisfree

[ditchcrawler]

Kev, Have you tried putting your finger in it to see if it slows down much under load?

[Biggles]

Ha! Bloody Ha! Brian.

 

Actually very funny.

[Grace and Favour]

Kev, Have you tried putting your finger in it to see if it slows down much under load?

Isn't that known as a 'digital brake'?

[Taslim]

This has been a very interesting thread.

 

Up 'till now I have been (metaphoricly!) been sat on the fence about boat bog prefference but no more.

 

I'm O.K. around electrics, happy with pipe work but the combination of brushes & bog pipes.......

 

Boaters brief case it is.

[Biggles]

Isn't that known as a 'digital brake'?

 

The digit certainly got broke. Good news is I've been signed off. Finger is well on the mend and I don't need to go back unless there are any problems.

I had the back of the unit apart as well. This is where the macerated contents are pumped out. The front of the motor does the mashing the back the discharge. The impeller fins on the back were VERY scaled up. Probably 2-3 the weight of the cleaned impeller.

 

So the question is what to us and how often to de-scale?

[Grace and Favour]

 

So the question is what to us and how often to de-scale?

I believe the LeeSan de-scaler is a 25%(?) dilution phosphoric acid

 

When I descale I use a stronger version (bought on fleabay for use as a rust treatment), but we haven't experienced an hard water/high scale problem yet - but the answer to frequency of descaling depends completely on your rate of scaling! (I realise that's a naff reply!)