Jump to content


Photo

Tying the knot


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#21 Gordias

Gordias

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted Yesterday, 05:33 PM

Some more good links:

 

http://www.southee.com/Knots/Index.htm

   - has a PDF you can download into a tablet and use offline

   - shows useful alternative ways to tie some knots

 

http://notableknotin.../knotindex.html

http://www.asiteabou...t/cr_knots.html

 

http://www.scoutingr...s/knots_az.html

  - I can explain an easy and reliable way to tie an "Alpine Butterfly" (mid-line loop) with your eyes closed based on one of the pictures here if anyone is interested 


  • 0

#22 Athy

Athy

    Long Standing Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upwell, Norfolk
  • Boat Name:Trojan

Posted Yesterday, 05:45 PM

Now I get a clue to your choice of forum name: Gordian Knot?


  • 0
One step beyond

#23 bizzard

bizzard

    Long Standing Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,770 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:bishops stortford
  • Boat Name:lady olga

Posted Yesterday, 05:45 PM

Good stuff Gordias. But I suspect there's a lot of folk on this ere forum who would run a mile at the very thought of  ''Tying the knot''  or ''getting spliced'' for that matter. smile.png


  • 0

#24 Athy

Athy

    Long Standing Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upwell, Norfolk
  • Boat Name:Trojan

Posted Yesterday, 05:51 PM

Good stuff Gordias. But I suspect there's a lot of folk on this ere forum who would run a mile at the very thought of  ''Tying the knot''  or ''getting spliced'' for that matter. smile.png

Oh come on, all that's needed is perseverance, it gets easier after the first time.


  • 0
One step beyond

#25 bizzard

bizzard

    Long Standing Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,770 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:bishops stortford
  • Boat Name:lady olga

Posted Yesterday, 06:14 PM

Oh come on, all that's needed is perseverance, it gets easier after the first time.

What  I think might put a lot of folk off tying the knot is a matter of the possibly of unknown quirks and horrors that might come to light once the knot is tied.  Like fuming smelly feet, habitual nose picking, nail biting, removing false teeth at the dinner table, fleas, bottom covered with pussy boils, Washing once a year only, leaving dogends dotted about all over the shop, bed wetting, digging wax from ears with matchsticks. Unless both have identickle draw backs huge and great tollerence and overwheming love is needed.


  • 0

#26 Gordias

Gordias

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted Yesterday, 06:59 PM

Now I get a clue to your choice of forum name: Gordian Knot?

 

Yes :)


  • 0

#27 Gordias

Gordias

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted Yesterday, 07:04 PM

Oh come on, all that's needed is perseverance, it gets easier after the first time.

 

I think the biggest problem with knots is the huge number of different ones for (almost) the same purpose.

 

This is why Grog (the link in the first post),  Andy's, and Roo's sites are so good.  They select the most useful ones and explain why to use them.

 

I'd actually like to learn the "right" knots for narrow boats, or perhaps the tasks (I can fit a knot to a task with the help of those sites).

 

For example, what about typing up while in a lock?  Do you set things up so the crew can shorten/lengthen the mooring lines while the lock is gaining/releasing water?


Edited by Gordias, Today, 09:05 AM.

  • 0

#28 Gordias

Gordias

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted Today, 10:29 AM

http://www.scoutingr...s/knots_az.html

  - I can explain an easy and reliable way to tie an "Alpine Butterfly" (mid-line loop) with your eyes closed based on one of the pictures here if anyone is interested 

 

I decided to explain this anyway smile.png

 

The "Alpine Butterfly Loop" is the standard mid-line loop for climbing. 

  • Good:
    • It doesn't require doubling the rope. 
    • It's strong, jam resistant, easy to untie even after being loaded, and easy to tie. 
    • The loop can be loaded in any direction
  • Limitations:
    • It can be tied to a ring, but I wouldn't use it for that:  the tying method is different and not as easy to remember
    • It can also be used as a bend (joining two ropes) but I wouldn't use it for that either - IMO the Zeppelin and Carrick Bends are both better (see Grog) 
    • It's inconvenient to adjust the size or position of the loop after it's tied (retying is quicker)

The butterfly is actually two interlocked overhand knots like the Zeppelin Bend, but it's not so easy to see as with the Zeppelin.  See Grog:

http://www.animatedk...pelin/index.php

 

Step 1:  Follow the animation at Grog to tie two or three Alpine Butterfly Loops exactly as shown there:

http://www.animatedk...erfly/index.php

Get a feel for "setting" the knot after it's tied

Step 2: Look at the picture and read the text at the scouting site:

http://www.scoutingr...knots_az.html#a

The picture is good, but don't try to tie it that way - Grog's method is much better (hence step 1)

Step 3 (my "tie it in the dark" method)

 

Keep the picture from step 2 in front of you for A to C.

(you can easily do this sitting in front of a screen)

 

A. Hang the middle of the line over your wrist (it's a mid-line loop so we don't want the ends close)

B. Take the line from the top/center of your wrist, twist it to make an "eye", and hang that over your thumb

     Now the line is hooked on your thumb, crossing on top of your wrist, with ends to the left and right of your wrist

C. Make a second eye starting from the one on your thumb, twisting in the same direction (you get a different knot of you twist the other way) and grip the point where the line crosses with thumb and one or more fingers (I use thumb against the inside/center of my middle finger)

 

At this point we're at the first picture in the scouting link's description of the Alpine Butterfly Loop.

 

D. Use the other hand to take the top loop back and through the lower loop from underneath, as shown in that picture and set the knot.  It's easy to make the loop longer as you do this.

It helps to grip one of the ends with the little finger of the hand controlling the loops (feels weird, but very helpful).

 

(D) feels difficult the first time, but it becomes easy quickly. 

 

Note that if you've never tried this knot before, you have to practice how to set it after the knot is formed, and it won't necessarily look exactly like Grog's picture.  Those two "parallel lines" in the center may look more like an "X", and the loop may have a half-twist. Once you learn how to set the knot, you can set it so it looks exactly like Grog's (though AFAIK this doesn't affect its strength or properties.

 

The reasons I like this approach:

  1. It's easy to remember
  2. It can be done reliably without looking (in the dark)
  3. The knot is always under control as you're tying it - so for example this method can be used while walking, even dragging the line behind you, or lying on your back
  4. You can see the whole process clearly if you want to look at it

Grog's method is a little easier to do, and at least as good for (1) and (4).  But (2) and (3) are very important for me - I have a strong preference for knots that can be used in difficult circumstances.


Edited by Gordias, Today, 11:25 AM.

  • 0




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users