Is the stove I have just bought weird?

[Doodlebug]

Hi everyone.

 

I recently bought a stove from ebay. It went very cheaply (100) and i was quite pleased with it. However having collected and looked at it, it seems unusual.

 

Its a hunter herald oil stove. I havent found anything at all on the internet about it, and the only bit of info I got was from hunters site, where I found an advert for it, which didn't really help.

 

The reasons I say it is unusual are as follows.

 

It isnt lit by opening the door and putting a firelighter into the stove. You have a tube at the bottom that you put a ligher into and the flame gets sucked through into the stove.

 

It has fake coals that go on top of the burner to make it look like a coal fire.

 

It has a strange anti down draft thing on the flue. Like a balanced flap. I haven't quite worked out how it works but supposedly will stop the flame being blown out in high winds.

 

From what I understand from google, diesel stoves and oil stoves are one and the same, although I am happy to run it on heating oil if needs be. It looks like a great stove, and looks like its worth way more than what I payed for it. But I can't find any stoves on the market that are similar to compare it to.

 

Is it weird? Or common. Lets hope it was a good purchase and I can use it, but it was worth a punt!.

 

Piccy:

 

[rjasmith]

Hi everyone.

 

I recently bought a stove from ebay. It went very cheaply (100) and i was quite pleased with it. However having collected and looked at it, it seems unusual.

 

Its a hunter herald oil stove. I havent found anything at all on the internet about it, and the only bit of info I got was from hunters site, where I found an advert for it, which didn't really help.

 

The reasons I say it is unusual are as follows.

 

It isnt lit by opening the door and putting a firelighter into the stove. You have a tube at the bottom that you put a ligher into and the flame gets sucked through into the stove.

 

It has fake coals that go on top of the burner to make it look like a coal fire.

 

It has a strange anti down draft thing on the flue. Like a balanced flap. I haven't quite worked out how it works but supposedly will stop the flame being blown out in high winds.

 

From what I understand from google, diesel stoves and oil stoves are one and the same, although I am happy to run it on heating oil if needs be. It looks like a great stove, and looks like its worth way more than what I payed for it. But I can't find any stoves on the market that are similar to compare it to.

 

Is it weird? Or common. Lets hope it was a good purchase and I can use it, but it was worth a punt!.

 

 

It probably isn't very different in principle to the more common Bubble or Kabola oil fired stoves which use the vaporising pot burner system and have an oil regulator (an oval shaped object with a regulating knob on the top) This will be low down, perhaps at the back somewhere and the fuel pipe will connect to it. The regulator will be set up, either to burn diesel (35 second Redwood scale viscosity) or kerosene heating oil (28 second Redwood scale). It probably won't work on the wrong fuel very well unless the regulator is set up for it. This often means changing the "metering stem" for the appropriate type plus making other adjustments.

 

I tried looking on the Harworth Heating site as most oil stove tech manuals can be found there. They have some Hunter manuals but only for their multifuel stoves sadly.

 

Other vague stuff that came out of a Google search suggested that your stove may have a wick rather than a pot burner. If it does, it may work like an old oil fired Aga perhaps.

 

The flue draft diverter you described is quite usual on pot/wick burner flues and my Kabola boiler has one. As you say, this is intended to prevent wind gusts from over drawing on the flue.

 

Have you tried phoning Hunter using the number on their website - they will probably be able to send you a copy of the manual for a small fee.

 

Good Luck!

 

Richard

[Doodlebug]

Thank you for your reply, It doesn't have a wick and the other thing I thought strange is that should always have 5mm of oil in the base.

 

I have just emailed the company but dont know what I will find out.

 

Is it easy to change the stove from one type of fuel to the other? I was mainly worried it would smell.

 

Then again I quite fancy using heating oil because it is so cheap. About 65p per L rather than 90p for diesel.

 

The only problem is getting it delivered to boats. Is this possible? 500l minimum seems like a lot of oil.

 

Thanks

[rjasmith]

Thank you for your reply, It doesn't have a wick and the other thing I thought strange is that should always have 5mm of oil in the base.

 

I have just emailed the company but dont know what I will find out.

 

Is it easy to change the stove from one type of fuel to the other? I was mainly worried it would smell.

 

Then again I quite fancy using heating oil because it is so cheap. About 65p per L rather than 90p for diesel.

 

The only problem is getting it delivered to boats. Is this possible? 500l minimum seems like a lot of oil.

 

Thanks

 

Well if there's no wick, it must presumably be a pot burner - have a look at Harworth Heating's website, especially the "Tech Manuals" section. There's a fabulous lot of info there on their Bubble stoves, plus other makes, all of which operate on this principle. They even have a link to a short Youtube video showing aspects of setting up the regulator.

 

Whether you would find it easy or not to alter the regulator to change from diesel to kerosene will depend on your own DIY aptitude I suppose!

 

It's the sort of thing I love finding out about and worked out most of what I needed to know from reading the manuals on the HH site and studying how the internals of the OCI oil regulator go together. Have you identified the regulator on your stove? There is a manual for that on the HH site as well. Don't try to make adjustments until you have studied the subject carefully it's a little bit involved and I think it would be better for you to read the stuff I read rather than for me to try and paraphrase it badly!

 

Search for posts written by Koukouvagia on the forum as he is definitely our resident pot burner expert!

 

I can't really help with how you would obtain supplies of kerosene on the boat unless some of the fuel boats stock it. Maybe it will help if you have oil heating at your house as we do. No good if you live on your boat though!

 

The stove shouldn't smell if it is a pot burner and it's working properly. The key to these things is all down to getting the flue working right.

 

Richard

[bargemast]

The diesel heaters I know wouldn't work with a 5mm layer of fuel in the burner pot (if that's what you call the base), as they won't be able to evaporate the fuel like that.

 

Peter.

[Doodlebug]

Thanks for the comments. I am less worried about it now, having recieved it, the stove is totaly different to the instructions leading me to think it is a different stove althogether.

 

It has a kinda bucket, with lots of holes around the edge.

 

Diesel drips into the bucket, so it sounds like a normal stove. Its bloody huge though. Theres going to be a lot of turning it on and off I think.

 

One issue I may have is a lack of draw on the stove. I lit it in the garden at my parents house and the flames were rather yellow and took a while to get going. It only ran smoothy with the lighting port out.

 

The flue will be about a meter long so I hope it gives enough draw, if not I may end up needing to come up with some sort of extraction device.

 

Thanks

[rjasmith]

Thanks for the comments. I am less worried about it now, having recieved it, the stove is totaly different to the instructions leading me to think it is a different stove althogether.

 

It has a kinda bucket, with lots of holes around the edge.

 

Diesel drips into the bucket, so it sounds like a normal stove. Its bloody huge though. Theres going to be a lot of turning it on and off I think.

 

One issue I may have is a lack of draw on the stove. I lit it in the garden at my parents house and the flames were rather yellow and took a while to get going. It only ran smoothy with the lighting port out.

 

The flue will be about a meter long so I hope it gives enough draw, if not I may end up needing to come up with some sort of extraction device.

 

Thanks

 

Were you able to get any info out of Hunters? It will be important for you to follow their installation advice otherwise I don't think you will get very good results!

 

It does sound like a pot burner - does the pot look something like this?

 

 

This is the one out of my Kabola E5 boiler with the metal catalyst assembly temporarily removed. Yours should have a catalyst in it

 

I presume you had a flue attached when you tried it in the garden? If you didn't or it was too short, you will be bound to get yellow smoky flames!

 

I presume you've found the oil regulator on it somewhere (see the picture of a typical one here). Have you tried adjusting the oil flow rate using the knob? With a short flue a blue flame may not be achieved if the oil flow is too high.

 

Richard

[Doodlebug]

No I didn't get anything from hunter. No phone number and they haven't replied to my email. Yes it looks similar but the holes are all small like the top ones, and it doesn't have the safety thing to check it is alite, I suppose I can add one.

 

It has no catalyst either. How does that work then?

 

No there was no flue, I didn't have one with me so maybe that will help suck in oxygen.

 

Yes I was able to turn it right down, although it didn't help with the flames.

[rjasmith]

No I didn't get anything from hunter. No phone number and they haven't replied to my email. Yes it looks similar but the holes are all small like the top ones, and it doesn't have the safety thing to check it is alite, I suppose I can add one.

 

It has no catalyst either. How does that work then?

 

No there was no flue, I didn't have one with me so maybe that will help suck in oxygen.

 

Yes I was able to turn it right down, although it didn't help with the flames.

 

Phone no for Hunter is 01392 841744 (they're in Yellow Pages!) although I now have a horrible feeling that they are a shadow of their former selves and may disown their previous oil fired product!

 

Nevertheless I'd still try phoning them.

 

If you get this thing of yours working right it will have a lovely blue flame. The catalyst is usually a metal grid (see Kabola type here). It will be made of a special alloy and when it glows red hot inside the pot it will help promote the combustion reactions to make a cleaner flame. I can't remember all the chemistry (A levels were a long time ago!) but catalysts certainly work.

 

Believe me, the thing simply won't work without the correct flue set up and it's got to be a natural draught. A flue extractor fan certainly wouldn't work.

 

Here's me in our garden testing various flue configurations on my Kabola a while back.

 

 

Note length of flue plus terminal (the black bit which you can't see the top of) in place. That was the minimum recommended length for use in a narrow boat. Gives a splendid blue flame in the boiler.

 

Richard

[rrt2]

 

 

"The only problem is getting it delivered to boats. Is this possible? 500l minimum seems like a lot of oil."

 

 

Some central heating fuel supply company's will have 20 Lt. drums of either fuel for sale. There is a garage in East Sussex that has both a kerosene and red diesel on a forecourt pump. You might find another in your area.

[Doodlebug]

Thanks, I will look into the different petrol stations and see if any do it, if not I might be able to get my dad to have a 500l tank in his garage and then fill up smaller containers from there.

 

Have just had a reply from hunter. Its not the same stove! I give up, The manual the people gave me was wrong, then the name of the stove they gave me is also wrong.

 

I have no idea where to start to identify it!

 

I would like to know the KW output more than anything.

 

Is it unusual to just have a washing machine drum like burner, with the holes around the outside? Do they normally have the catalyst? Can I buy one and put it in?

[jelunga]

Thanks for the comments. I am less worried about it now, having recieved it, the stove is totaly different to the instructions leading me to think it is a different stove althogether.

 

It has a kinda bucket, with lots of holes around the edge.

 

Diesel drips into the bucket, so it sounds like a normal stove. Its bloody huge though. Theres going to be a lot of turning it on and off I think.

 

One issue I may have is a lack of draw on the stove. I lit it in the garden at my parents house and the flames were rather yellow and took a while to get going. It only ran smoothy with the lighting port out.

 

The flue will be about a meter long so I hope it gives enough draw, if not I may end up needing to come up with some sort of extraction device.

 

Thanks

A metre is waaaaaay too short. Our Bybble has about 2.5 and that is barely enough. Less will give a yellow flame with lots jf carbon build up and noxious gases like CO and CO2

[Doodlebug]

Ok, although i'm going to feel like an idiot if I fit a 2m chimney to the roof!

 

I guess it could fold but I'll look like a power station!

 

Unless I make a flue drawing fan thingymagigy

[rjasmith]

Ok, although i'm going to feel like an idiot if I fit a 2m chimney to the roof!

 

I guess it could fold but I'll look like a power station!

 

Unless I make a flue drawing fan thingymagigy

 

Don't quite understand why you think your flue will only be 1m. Surely the stove will be at floor level, the flue pipe inside between stove top and roof collar will be at least 1.5m and then you'll need an external chimney of about 600mm making a total of over 2m.

 

Most pot burners work OK with that but it helps if they use an insulated flue from top to bottom, there are no bends in it, and a proper anti downdraft terminal is fitted on the top of the chimney. Kabola use their own special flue system (expensive!) that does all this - see my photo above or have a look at the Kuranda site.

 

Short ie around 2m flues will not usually allow the stove to run at full rated output ie the oil flow will have to be kept below max to retain a proper blue flame but then you said you were worried about too much heat so that won't be a problem!

 

I do think you'll have to lose that idea that some sort of flue fan will work, OK perhaps in a house to stop an ordinary solid fuel fire smoking into the room perhaps but pot burners are supposed to maintain a variable draft automatically, according to the firing rate governed by the oil regulator.

 

Richard

[Doodlebug]

Hi,

 

The stove isn't fitted at floor level, there is a room made within the cratch which is about 80cm from the floor. I recon from the top of the stove to the roof when I put it in will be about 60cm.

 

Theres nothing I can do about location of the stove, so maybe a large tilting chimney for use under bridges.

 

I'm going to have to work it out somehow.

[rjasmith]

Hi,

 

The stove isn't fitted at floor level, there is a room made within the cratch which is about 80cm from the floor. I recon from the top of the stove to the roof when I put it in will be about 60cm.

 

Theres nothing I can do about location of the stove, so maybe a large tilting chimney for use under bridges.

 

I'm going to have to work it out somehow.

 

Yes - a normally vertical flue/chimney of at least 2m above the stove will have to do for you then. I did wonder whether your installation might not be at floor level but you didn't say this originally (or I missed it!).

 

Actually I'll come clean, my Kabola boiler flue has a couple of naughty bends in it although the boiler is right down on the baseplate. My tests showed that I might need to use a longer external length to compensate for the drag caused by the bends. We won't operate the boiler when moving so any extra tall chimney will be dismantled before we set off and only put back when we moor and need to light the boiler. Maybe one day we will recognise each other's boats by the enormous chimneys!

 

Richard

Edited June 4, 2013 by rjasmith

[Pilly]

Before you do anything with this stove I would strongly advise you to fit a remote acting firevalve on the oil line.

 

Try a search on google for ... "KBB Fire Valve"