Meeting with CRT Directors

[cotswoldsman]

Steve Jay, Alan Fincher, Louise Yeoman and myself had a meeting on Monday with Vince Moran (acting CEO) Simon Salem (Boating Director) John Dodwell (Trustee) and Sally Ash (head of Boating) at Milton Keynes,and before anyone asks I do not have any minutes as this was an informal meeting to discuss Boating matters and how boaters can move forward in a better partnership with CRT

 

I am convinced that the Trust do want to work with boaters to ensure we move forward together. Like any partnership there are going to be things we disagree on but at least the Trust have a better understand as to why we disagree. It did get very heated a couple of times on Monday!!!

 

A couple of things that might be of interest to boaters on here. Vince Moran and Simon Salem agreed that we could send observers to Waterways Partnership meetings (this door has been closed to us before) for those not aware these Partnerships have a very big say in the future of our waterways.

Waterway Partnerships help to shape plans for each waterway. They guide the Trust’s decisions about spending and help develop local engagement, external funding while championing the interests of the waterways.

They are split into 11 regional areas and they are currently working on a 10 year plan for the future of each region more information on Waterways Partnerships here >>>>>>http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/meet-the-team/waterway-partnerships

It is hoped that the boater going to the meeting and I stress to observe, will then be given the opportunity after the meeting to ask some relevant questions. My fear is that while these Partnerships made up of the great and good including a lot of non boaters might be so busy looking at the bigger picture that they lose sight of what boaters really need such as more Visitor Moorings, Facilities etc. if anyone is interested could they please contact me indicating region of interest. Please contact me via this link >>http://johnsloan.squarespace.com/contact-me/

 

CRT agreed that we should be involved in putting forward a case for more Visitor Moorings on a regional basis these mooring might well be a sort of grade 2 Visitor Mooring outside or close to popular areas for those that wish to stay longer than the normal 24/48 hours or 7 days. It would also be hoped that these moorings might attract some of the boaters such as Hire Boaters that normally go to popular moorings for no other reason than a feeling of security so the result might be to take some pressure off the existing Visitor Moorings. Once again people interested in getting involved in this process should contact me >>>>http://johnsloan.squarespace.com/contact-me/

 

Just maybe one more thing I should stress when we attend these meetings CRT are aware that we represent no one on a formal basis.We will be organising more regional meetings for boaters to attend with CRT head office staff (Vince Moran recently attended a CCers Meeting) and regional managers so boaters can discuss any issue that concerns them but also hopefully put ideas forward to CRT how problems might best be solved.

Edited May 22, 2013 by cotswoldsman

[DeanS]

Well done John......keeping the communication open between the top of CRT management and "us" can only lead to a better future for all.

[cheshire~rose]

Yes good work John and thanks for all the effort you are putting in.

[cotswoldsman]

Did mean to put another link. West Midland Waterways Partnership (including Vaughn Welch) will be holding there AGM on 18 June 2013 this is open to anyone but places are limited, anyone interested in going and I would advise anyone with an interest in the West Midlands to go if possible to find out what the plans are.

Link to details http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/3163.pdf

[jenlyn]

Steve Jay, Alan Fincher, Louise Yeoman and myself had a meeting on Monday with Vince Moran (acting CEO) Simon Salem (Boating Director) John Dodwell (Trustee) and Sally Ash (head of Boating) at Milton Keynes,and before anyone asks I do not have any minutes as this was an informal meeting to discuss Boating matters and how boaters can move forward in a better partnership with CRT

 

I am convinced that the Trust do want to work with boaters to ensure we move forward together. Like any partnership there are going to be things we disagree on but at least the Trust have a better understand as to why we disagree. It did get very heated a couple of times on Monday!!!

 

A couple of things that might be of interest to boaters on here. Vince Moran and Simon Salem agreed that we could send observers to Waterways Partnership meetings (this door has been closed to us before) for those not aware these Partnerships have a very big say in the future of our waterways.

 

I have to point out the fact that Alan and yourself spend considerable time convincing me to not be so aggressive, then low and behold, you both go in and start a fight!

My opinion is you should both sample my medication.......

They are split into 11 regional areas and they are currently working on a 10 year plan for the future of each region more information on Waterways Partnerships here >>>>>>http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/meet-the-team/waterway-partnerships

It is hoped that the boater going to the meeting and I stress to observe, will then be given the opportunity after the meeting to ask some relevant questions. My fear is that while these Partnerships made up of the great and good including a lot of non boaters might be so busy looking at the bigger picture that they lose sight of what boaters really need such as more Visitor Moorings, Facilities etc. if anyone is interested could they please contact me indicating region of interest. Please contact me via this link >>http://johnsloan.squarespace.com/contact-me/

 

CRT agreed that we should be involved in putting forward a case for more Visitor Moorings on a regional basis these mooring might well be a sort of grade 2 Visitor Mooring outside or close to popular areas for those that wish to stay longer than the normal 24/48 hours or 7 days. It would also be hoped that these moorings might attract some of the boaters such as Hire Boaters that normally go to popular moorings for no other reason than a feeling of security so the result might be to take some pressure off the existing Visitor Moorings. Once again people interested in getting involved in this process should contact me >>>>http://johnsloan.squarespace.com/contact-me/

 

Just maybe one more thing I should stress when we attend these meetings CRT are aware that we represent no one on a formal basis.We will be organising more regional meetings for boaters to attend with CRT head office staff (Vince Moran recently attended a CCers Meeting) and regional managers so boaters can discuss any issue that concerns them but also hopefully put ideas forward to CRT how problems might best be solved.

I have to point out the fact that Alan and yourself spend considerable time convincing me to not be so aggressive, then low and behold, you both go in and start a fight!My opinion is you should both sample my medication....... Edited May 22, 2013 by jenlyn

[HappyBunny]

Good to hear this John, and thanks for the time you are putting in to this. I attended a meeting between CRT and The Roving Traders group a couple of weeks ago in Milton Keynes, and like yourself, felt that CRT genuinely want to work with boaters. I came away feeling more positive than when I went in, and found John Dodwell's input and responses particularly encouraging.

[alan_fincher]

I have to point out the fact that Alan and yourself spend considerable time convincing me to not be so aggressive, then low and behold, you both go in and start a fight!My opinion is you should both sample my medication.......

????

 

I don't think I did "aggressive" at Monday's meeting......

 

"Firm" certainly, "Frustrated" occasionally.

 

"Not said as well as I could have" on one or two occasions at the start, (although we got much better by the end).

 

But I don't think I did "aggressive", did I?

 

Or am I misunderstanding the point!

 

I think we were right not to have given CRT directors a pre-prepared agenda of everything we might have raised, because by so doing we avoided them coming back with carefully pre-prepared answers, (which was good).

 

For a future meeting, though, I think we need to perhaps have a better pre-understanding what our focus will be, and what tone we take with them. I found them far more open than maybe I had been led to expect, so "aggressive" should be avoidable, and is almost certainly counter-productive. That doesn't mean just accepting any answer though - we can fight a corner without "aggressive"!

[jenlyn]

????

I don't think I did "aggressive" at Monday's meeting......

"Firm" certainly, "Frustrated" occasionally.

 

"Not said as well as I could have" on one or two occasions at the start, (although we got much better by the end).

 

But I don't think I did "aggressive", did I?

Or am I misunderstanding the point!

I think we were right not to have given CRT directors a pre-prepared agenda of everything we might have raised, because by so doing we avoided them coming back with carefully pre-prepared answers, (which was good).

For a future meeting, though, I think we need to perhaps have a better pre-understanding what our focus will be, and what tone we take with them. I found them far more open than maybe I had been led to expect, so "aggressive" should be avoidable, and is almost certainly counter-productive. That doesn't mean just accepting any answer though - we can fight a corner without "aggressive"!

Just joking alan....

[alan_fincher]

Just joking alan....

Hook line and sinker!

 

I guess I kind of knew that, having had the phone call this morning.

 

John really was an argumentative bugger though, wasn't he!

[ChimneyChain]

As much as I admire what you four are doing, I was wondering what the boaters representatives that were elected last year are doing with there time. Are they working on other projects to help out boaters??

 

Darren

Edited May 23, 2013 by ChimneyChain

[alan_fincher]

As much as I admire what you four are doing, I was wondering what the boaters representatives that were elected last year are doing with there time. Are they working on other projects to help out boaters??

 

Darren

You would need to ask them, but whatever they (or CRT) see their role as being, I don't think you will see them addressing the types of stuff that we are.

 

(One has after all openly expressed his views about live-aboard boaters on the lower Grand Union - for example - and I can't exactly say those views were sympathetic to any of them!)

[cotswoldsman]

As much as I admire what you four are doing, I was wondering what the boaters representatives that were elected last year are doing with there time. Are they working on other projects to help out boaters??

 

Darren

Good question maybe best you email them and ask as I certainly do not know. Most of their te I think is taken up with important IWA bus dines, Waterwsys Partnerships, NAG and whatever other hat they wear on any chosen day!!!

[MtB]

As much as I admire what you four are doing, I was wondering what the boaters representatives that were elected last year are doing with there time. Are they working on other projects to help out boaters??

 

Darren

 

Best to leave them dozing in the warm glow of their own self-importance, less they pipe up, start getting involved and undo all the good work done so far.

 

MtB

[bassplayer]

Did anyone ask the directors why the CRT SE mooring proposals report didn't conclude that everything should be left alone (which is what the petition was all about)? Also, why they tried to make out in the report that the petition was about consultation rather than stopping the proposals? I've not received a reply from Damian (CRT) regarding this...I wonder why?

[alan_fincher]

Did anyone ask the directors why the CRT SE mooring proposals report didn't conclude that everything should be left alone (which is what the petition was all about)? Also, why they tried to make out in the report that the petition was about consultation rather than stopping the proposals? I've not received a reply from Damian (CRT) regarding this...I wonder why?

The meeting did spend time on what has happened with the SEVM consultation.

 

We had agreed amongst ourselves that we had limited time, and must not use it too much on any one single issue, so we concentrated more on why it was a poor example of how to conduct a consultation, than on the actual outcome.

 

Actually they were very open about whether they are doing the right thing at all, (particularly the likely reaction of "usually compliant" boaters to a £25 overstay charge if the actual situation at a site seemed not to justify it), and we have left them thinking about whether they might try and launch in a more measured way, and only go to their full proposals if boaters can't demonstrate that on the whole they can be self policing.

 

Had it been a "one issue" meeting, I sensed we might even have got them to give further ground, but it wasn't, and it became obvious the point at which we should push it no further.

 

Watch this space - there could be pleasant surprises to come, but I'm certainly not promising!

 

 

[madcat]

I would appreciate a chance to explain calmly to Ca RT why carpet bombing everywhere with 48hr moorings and trying to apply draconian penalties is a truly bad idea.

I foresee trouble ahead and some serious resistance to this if it comes in.

[alan_fincher]

I would appreciate a chance to explain calmly to Ca RT why carpet bombing everywhere with 48hr moorings and trying to apply draconian penalties is a truly bad idea.

I foresee trouble ahead and some serious resistance to this if it comes in.

Mindful particularly of you, and what you had written on this topic, I made strong representations to them that I am hearing from people who are not radical trouble makers, but who strongly object to the imposition of this kind of "restrict, threaten, and, if necessary, fine" mentality. I pointed out a lot of people want to enjoy things at a leisurely pace, to be able to tie up somewhere reasonable and convenient for more than a strict 1 day or 2 days, and simple enjoy what they have always been able to do, without CRT think some whole new regime of micro-management is essential.

 

We are increasingly seeing them go a bit "wobbly" on the whole topic, and, as I said above, I think we may have convinced them at this late stage that they are being too heavy handed. If not, I will continue to fight this issue.

 

Why not email Sally Ash, (head of boating) and the director to which she reports (Simon Salem), and set out clearly and rationally what you don't like, why you think it is unnecessary, and how you feel about staying associated with the canals if they continue to take the "sledge hammer" line? (CRT email addresses usually in the format of firstname.lastname@canalrivertrust.org.uk).

 

I can't promise you will get a sympathetic hearing, but the more they hear messages from established boaters who take the counter view to the established names in the IWA who have been telling them what they believe we all need, the more likely they are to realise there is a majority not in favour of their tinkering with this stuff.

[madcat]

Maybe I should email with my concerns. I will have to use Boris,s email address as I no longer have one. Boris will no doubt help me compose a suitable letter and would wish to add his own comments and opinions.

Thanks for your efforts on behalf of the rest of us.

Madcat.

[bassplayer]

Any more news or meetings set up? In particular what's the latest on CRT's SE mooring change plans? Are they going ahead regardless?

[alan_fincher]

Any more news or meetings set up? In particular what's the latest on CRT's SE mooring change plans? Are they going ahead regardless?

 

Allegedly the SE mooring changes are to forge ahead at the 8 pilot sites only, with Thrupp, Stoke Bruerne and Hillmorton all supposed to be taking priority.

 

Don't know about Thrupp, but suspect local cruising club involvement there may mean it is well advanced. Anyone know?

 

AFAIK they have again tried advertising for volunteer "Mooring Rangers", (or whatever they are now calling them), and I don't believe they have been overwhelmed by people wanting to do the job elsewhere. This was always going to be an issue, we felt.

 

As of last weekend there is no evidence of anything at all having happened at Stoke Bruerne. No new signs, (in fact same old ambiguities about old ones!).

 

Contrary to all the scare stories, even arriving very late in the day on a Saturday, much of the bank from the tunnel to the museum was still freely available as moorings, and when we moved off down the "long pound" below the top two locks on the Sunday morning it was nearly empty.

 

Completely self-managing last weekend, and no tinkering required, even on the hottest days of the year so far, at a weekend, and into July.......

[jenlyn]

Nothing changed at berko. I suspect they don't have the volunteers. My gut feeling is that they are playing a wait and see for this year. Just monitoring, with a view to bringing it in next year if there is indeed a problem. This was banded about at our last meeting with them. Plus the fact we are still pressuring them with emails etc regarding the situation. None of us have stopped fighting it.

[cotswoldsman]

The latest minutes from SEWP note that they were dissappointed at the response for volunteers to monitor!!! I sent an email to SEWP early last week to raise a number of points but still awaiting reply...,

[alan_fincher]

The latest minutes from SEWP note that they were dissappointed at the response for volunteers to monitor!!! I sent an email to SEWP early last week to raise a number of points but still awaiting reply...,

Such a shame for Vaughan Welch that he is not more local!.......

[Tuscan]

Foxton still pretty quiet, spent the weekend at Marsworth Saturday 3pm there was one boat between Red Lion bridge and bridge by services this was there by CRT agreement. Arrived Stoke Breune last night 3 boats on the long pound and fuller above but plenty of room for 72' so we stopped the night. No change to signage.

 

Spoke to someone in the pub who told me they had moored on towpath below the locks and walked into the pub at Marsworth and they wanted to stay a few days and didn't know if they could and didn't want a fine, I also heard this as a theory from one of the regulars at bridge 61 Foxton . It could just be fewer boats of course.

 

Recent correspondence I have had with CRT alludes to the fact that the £25 is considered a reasonable charge that covers there costs, IMO given that costs also feature as a reason for stopping winter mooring on VM's I think before any more changes CRT need to look inwards and sort their admin costs out.

[bassplayer]

I had a reply back from Damian Kemp (CRT) a few months ago approving of my idea to relax any new 48 hour moorings in the winter to help CCers. Did they mention anything about that? I've not heard anything from him since I queried the conclusion from the SE mooring consultation report. I tried contacting him twice about it.

 

It still looks to me that they are quite prepared to steam roll things through, it's just a matter of time. I was thinking of joining NABO to see if I can help fight the cause in numbers, anyone here members? Just wondered if they have much impact. These days I usually find the direct one to one route has more impact (if you can get to talk to the right person!).