what is the maximum height for widebeam boats on london canals?

[ribcageboating]

Hi everyone!

 

Im keen to join the boating world, and my boyfriends is keen too.. but.. he's 6ft 2, and he's worried that he'll feel cramped with the low ceilings of a widebeam boat. Does anyone know what the maximum height is that you can build a boat to for london canals? I believe its 6ft 4 but Im sure Ive seen taller boats than this! Thanks so much x

[Lady Muck]

Some things to consider.

 

Some of the cheaper boatyards are on the 'wrong side' of some of the lowest bridges in the London network, so if you buy something too high you won't be able to take advantage of these yards when you need to reblack. Some of the nicest bits of canal (i.e. most of the River Stort) is also on the wrong side of these low bridges.

 

If you have seen taller boats, then they either can't get up there, or they have collapsible wheelhouses which are dismantled for these bridges.

 

If you are going for a narrowboat, then it's easier to fit under bridges, but if you go for a Dutch Barge, you need to consider the shape of our Grand Union bridges and tunnels some of which are very curved and then figure out if the cabin top is gonna fit or not. Dutch barges aren't designed for our waterways. Maybe go and speak to some of the owners of the bigger boats and see what they say. I know of a few boats who are pretty much limited to the Lower River Lee and Thames because they're too deep drafted and too high air drafted to go anywhere else.

 

The best thing to do is to view plenty of boats, some are much deeper drafted (lower in the water) than others and therefore they have more internal headroom. My partner is very tall and our boat is fine for him and it's nothing special.

 

If you really want a big boat, then best thing to do is to stick to the Thames, lots of beautiful big barges for sale on the Thames and plenty of space for them.

[ribcageboating]

Thanks so much for your reply! We're not looking for a dutch barge. We're pretty set on buying a widebeam canal boat (pref 70 ft x 12/13ft). Really Im just trying to find out what the max height restriction is for these boats, inside the living area, so that I can let my partner know. Its tricky as there doesnt seem to be a set maximum..

[magnetman]

my barge is 58x12 ft and I have 6ft10 interior headroom she goes under the bridges and tunnelsin London no problem and up to Lechlade on the Thames. its partly the way the boat is built i've got a 15mm base and 8mm sides so there is less ballast needed so the floor can be lower.

 

its also about cabin width a wide cabin WILL catch bridges and tunnel sides.

 

my barge is more or less the the same as this one

 

(will add link)

 

http://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=283801

[ribcageboating]

Wow what a beaut! Thanks so much for this answer, and for the link. This should make my boyfriend happy! 6ft 10" should be more than enough :-)

[Lady Muck]

Thanks so much for your reply! We're not looking for a dutch barge. We're pretty set on buying a widebeam canal boat (pref 70 ft x 12/13ft). Really Im just trying to find out what the max height restriction is for these boats, inside the living area, so that I can let my partner know. Its tricky as there doesnt seem to be a set maximum..

If you cruise with a 70 foot by 13 foot widebeam I can't imagine it being much fun. The longer you are the more you limit mooring opportunities and you have to find a winding hole if you want to turn (I can turn my 56 foot six narrowboat most places on the Lee).

 

13 foot wide might also mean you would struggle on the River Stort, again doing yourself out of visiting some of the best countryside (and a super cheap drydock). Magnetman is correct, at 13 foot, your cabin top would risk hitting every tunnel and bridge side you come across. Really would not advise going as big as you possibly think you can, remember it's not a house, unless you have a mooring you will have to navigate and you don't want it to be a nightmare.

 

With boats it's better to design the fit out of the interior as well as you can so space is maximised, rather than go for something absolutely huge.

[ribcageboating]

Really great advice again. Thanks lady muck. Perhaps a 12ft x 60/65ft will have to do. My partner is keen to get as much space as possible, but scraping through bridges doesnt sound much fun! Do you know how short a boat has to be to be able to turn on the london canals without Using a winding hole? Or indeed how frequently one comes across winding holes on the network! Thanks again.

[Lady Muck]

Depends on the canal - the Lee is quite wide so you can turn with a 60 foot boat in some places. On the Grand Union, it'd have to be about 40 foot or less. A Nicholsons Guide will tell you where you can turn a full length boat.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Collins-Nicholson-Waterways-Guides/dp/000745256X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368874103&sr=1-2&keywords=nicholsons+canal

[ribcageboating]

Ah wonderful. Thanks so much lady muck.

[grahame r]

What a lot of people new to boating don't appreciate is how far the floor of a boat is below the waterline. As a general guidline a modern boat will have a draught of about 30 inches, the depth below the floor is unlikely to be more than 6 inches so the floor will be about 2 feet below the waterline. If the boat is then built say 5 feet above the waterline you will have 7 feet of headroom and a boat that will go under all bridges under normal conditions. Lady Muck is right about overall sizes, maximum length and (especially) width boats are difficult to handle and very ugly.

[ribcageboating]

Excellent info yet again. This forum is ace. So.. in layman's terms, if we have six inches beneath our feet, there's still room for 7ft of inside head living space? Thanks for the help Grahame.

[bizzard]

What a lot of people new to boating don't appreciate is how far the floor of a boat is below the waterline. As a general guidline a modern boat will have a draught of about 30 inches, the depth below the floor is unlikely to be more than 6 inches so the floor will be about 2 feet below the waterline. If the boat is then built say 5 feet above the waterline you will have 7 feet of headroom and a boat that will go under all bridges under normal conditions. Lady Muck is right about overall sizes, maximum length and (especially) width boats are difficult to handle and very ugly.

Grahame, Post!!

[ribcageboating]

That wasn't off topic.. that was very useful.. thanks again Grahame

[bizzard]

That wasn't off topic.. that was very useful.. thanks again Grahame

It didn't mean that, he knows what I mean. Grahame you have mail here.

Edited May 18, 2013 by bizzard

[ribcageboating]

Ah ok. Good good

[Tam & Di]

Thanks lady muck. Perhaps a 12ft x 60/65ft will have to do.

 

You have been talking of a widebeam craft, and the top edge of the cabin of these is potentially liable to damage in bridge holes as they extend to the full width of the hull. The one magnetman links to is advertised as a replica Dutch barge - which is a debateable description - but significantly it has side decks, which means the top edge of the cabintop is less likely to come into contact with a bridge or tunnel. With careful design you can have storage units under the side deck where height is not an issue but still retain decent headroom in the bit you need to walk about in. I suspect they are more expensive than the sort of craft generally described as a widebeam though.

 

Tam

Edited May 18, 2013 by Tam & Di

[magnetman]

mine is the same shell and its an English Barge not a replica anything

it does have

wide side decks but the cabin top at the front does still make contact in islington tunnel if the boat goes off centre. I certainly wouldn't want to go wider. the wheelhouse gets under most bridges as it is narrow but it'll fold in 5 mins singlehanded anyway.

Edited May 18, 2013 by magnetman

[bizzard]

Grahame 5 letters.

[the grinch]

my old narrowboat- draught 24" height of cabin internally 6'3" pidgeon box 6" above roof, clearance under Burnt mill lock bridge 3" no problems under any regents canal bridges

[ribcageboating]

Thanks hamsterfan!

[blackrose]

My 57 x 12ft widebeam can fit under any bridge on the broadbeam canals that an average narrowboat can fit under. I went under that very low bridge in Bristol floating harbour a couple of weeks ago without any problem. That's the lowest one I've been under. They didn't need to swing it for me (or do they raise it?)

 

Anyway, I have 6'10" of headroom inside and the boat draws 2" 2".

 

As far as widebeams are concerned, the risk of hitting the cabin sides on a curved bridgehole is actually dictated by a number of factors which include:

 

1) The air-draught

2) The beam

3) The angle of tumblehome on the cabin sides

4) The ability of the steerer!

 

 

 

Edit: One advantage of NB-style widebeams over Dutch barges (or new build Dutch-style barges) on UK broadbeam waterways that is seldom mentioned, is the much more shallow draught of the NB-style widebeam. I just took my widebeam all the way along the K&A from Reading to Bristol and never once scraped the bottom. Try doing that trip on a Dutch barge. It's not impossible, but having spoken to one Dutch barge owner who did it, you will probably be scraping the bottom and cleaning out and replacing parts of your raw water cooling system at regular intervals along the way.

Edited May 19, 2013 by blackrose

[Morat]

Hi everyone!

 

Im keen to join the boating world, and my boyfriends is keen too.. but.. he's 6ft 2, and he's worried that he'll feel cramped with the low ceilings of a widebeam boat. Does anyone know what the maximum height is that you can build a boat to for london canals? I believe its 6ft 4 but Im sure Ive seen taller boats than this! Thanks so much x

Hi,

I'm 6'4" (and a half inch if we're being really accurate) in socks according to my doctor and I find that most hire boats require a bit of a stoop in places, but not everywhere - which is of course a great recipe for banging your head. With a careful fitout and a little extra height in the steelwork 6'6' clearance is possible everywhere, and our boat is so much more comfortable for it. Of course we specified 6'6" beds as well or it would have been a waste of time!

In a narrowboat, the difference in air draft hasn't been significant but if you're going for a widebeam there is a bigger problem with bridges and tunnels. I suggest you do some careful measuring and find out what you really need. Underfloor heating may prove to be a no-no - but I don't think you'll have many problems getting a 6'3" ceiling height in a boat with standard steelwork.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Morat

[blackrose]

In a narrowboat, the difference in air draft hasn't been significant but if you're going for a widebeam there is a bigger problem with bridges and tunnels.

 

Is there? I've never had a problem with any bridges or tunnels and I have 6' 10" headroom inside (in the middle).

 

I'm only 5'6" so for me it's like a cathedral!

 

 

 

Obviously I will probably go through a bridgehole slower than a narrow boat, but I just put it in tickover and go through. I've never seen this as a problem.

 

The narrowest bridgehole I've gone through was a week last Friday at Bidford on Avon. I found a picture of a narrowboat approaching it on google. When I first looked at the navigable arch (on the left in this picture), I really didn't think my boat would fit through, but I just did it slow and didn't touch the sides.

 

Edited May 19, 2013 by blackrose

[oboat]

My 57 x 12ft widebeam can fit under any bridge on the broadbeam canals that an average narrowboat can fit under. I went under that very low bridge in Bristol floating harbour a couple of weeks ago without any problem. That's the lowest one I've been under. They didn't need to swing it for me (or do they raise it?)

 

Anyway, I have 6'10" of headroom inside and the boat draws 2" 2".

 

As far as widebeams are concerned, the risk of hitting the cabin sides on a curved bridgehole is actually dictated by a number of factors which include:

 

1) The air-draught

2) The beam

3) The angle of tumblehome on the cabin sides

4) The ability of the steerer!

 

 

 

Edit: One advantage of NB-style widebeams over Dutch barges (or new build Dutch-style barges) on UK broadbeam waterways that is seldom mentioned, is the much more shallow draught of the NB-style widebeam. I just took my widebeam all the way along the K&A from Reading to Bristol and never once scraped the bottom. Try doing that trip on a Dutch barge. It's not impossible, but having spoken to one Dutch barge owner who did it, you will probably be scraping the bottom and cleaning out and replacing parts of your raw water cooling system at regular intervals along the way.

 

Very interesting, I agree with your item 3 what is the beam at the edge of the roof ? I have often wondered about the beam of the back cabin roof on the old Rubbish Boats that would travel all over London No Probs.

I was proposing to use about 12ft but with an 8ft wide demountable bridge. Any comments ?

Thanks.

[blackrose]

Very interesting, I agree with your item 3 what is the beam at the edge of the roof ?

 

I've never measured it, but I imagine it's about 10' 9".

Edited May 21, 2013 by blackrose