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#1 Ally

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:55 PM

We have a 4kw webasto system. Assuming summer with rads at minimum heat, how long would we expect it to have to run to heat enough water for 2 shortish showers...ie a 55lt calorifiers worth max?
Looking to go solar water powered eventually, but in the meantime....... ?

Edited by Ally, 16 April 2012 - 10:56 PM.

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#2 Mike the Boilerman

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:13 PM

We have a 4kw webasto system. Assuming summer with rads at minimum heat, how long would we expect it to have to run to heat enough water for 2 shortish showers...ie a 55lt calorifiers worth max?
Looking to go solar water powered eventually, but in the meantime....... ?


Depends a lot on how warm the water is in the calorifier at the start, but I'd say about an hour if stone cold.

Mike
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#3 jelunga

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:51 AM

Depends a lot on how warm the water is in the calorifier at the start, but I'd say about an hour if stone cold.

Mike

Takes about that for our 5kw (nominal) Eberspacher. We have a tap which isolates radiators and directs all heat thro calorifier. But in this mode it takes longer because the burner goes into low heat mode more often as the heat transfer rate in the calorifier is not high enough to keep the heating coul water temp below the change point.
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#4 Nine of Hearts

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:09 AM

Depends a lot on how warm the water is in the calorifier at the start, but I'd say about an hour if stone cold.

Mike


Ditto. Outrageously inefficient but quicker, I find, is to run the engine if you need hot water in a hurry. Of course, you have to be careful that you're doing this in sociable hours, says he, dodging a volley of brickbats.
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#5 Ally

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:41 AM

..........air cooled engine..........when it works!
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#6 Lesd

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

I think one cyle of the webasto heather is about 50 mins, I always let ours shut down and start up a second time and run for ten mins before switching it off so a total time of maybe 75 mins. The start up phase runs at full power and helps to burn off the deposits so its good to do it twice. This is the advice I've picked up on here and so far so good (4.5 years, no issues). This produces plenty of hot for two showers and washing up. Also we leave the bathroom rad on so its warm when you finish your shower too.
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#7 The Dog House

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:02 PM

About an hour create enough on our boat.

Running the engine for the same creates even hotter water though, but that doesn't warm the boat...
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#8 jelunga

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:06 PM

I think one cyle of the webasto heather is about 50 mins, I always let ours shut down and start up a second time and run for ten mins before switching it off so a total time of maybe 75 mins. The start up phase runs at full power and helps to burn off the deposits so its good to do it twice. This is the advice I've picked up on here and so far so good (4.5 years, no issues). This produces plenty of hot for two showers and washing up. Also we leave the bathroom rad on so its warm when you finish your shower too.

If the Webasto runs like an Eberspacher, and I have no reason to think it doesnt, it will run in high power until the circulating water reaches a certain temp. It will then run in low power mode. If the water temp continues to rise it goes into idle mode.
I can really see no benefit in switching it off then on again. It will only help the glow plug to fail earlier. It starts up in high power mode because the water has cooled a little. But I may be wrong. Webastos may run on a timer rather than a temperature sensor

About an hour create enough on our boat.

Running the engine for the same creates even hotter water though, but that doesn't warm the boat...

But does charge the batteries. I have often thought whether it is more economical to run the engine or the Eberspacher. I think if it is just for hot water then the Everspacher but if for battery charging as well the engine.
Any figures to quote ?
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#9 ditchcrawler

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:39 PM

If you have an air cooled engine would it be worthwhile running the Webasto or Ebbi through both the coils of the calorifier ?
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#10 johnmck

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:46 PM

Get a proper engine Ally. Sorted.


( Runs for cover )

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#11 Nine of Hearts

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:24 AM

I can really see no benefit in switching it off then on again. It will only help the glow plug to fail earlier. It starts up in high power mode because the water has cooled a little. But I may be wrong. Webastos may run on a timer rather than a temperature sensor


I don't think Lesd is switching it on and off again. I imagine that he's probably still got it set to its default mode which is to automatically turn itself off after a period (I thought it was an hour, but Lesd is saying 50 mins). As these things are intended for defrosting vehicles, you can see why they have this feature. You set it to come on to defrost your truck at a certain time and then it switches itself off without you having to remember. About the only thing capable of drowning out the noise of an operating Webasto is probably an 8 litre truck diesel, but I digress. There's a little connector inside (if memory serves) that you set to stop it doing this which means that from them on you have to turn it off manually. Most boat users of Webastos (in my experience) do this.
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#12 Boatingbiker

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 04:38 PM

Technical using heat input (kW) = litres x specific heat capacity of water (4.2) x rise in temperature (normally 55 deg C) all divided by time (hrs) X seconds in 1 hour (3600)

rearranged results in time (hours) = litres x 4.2 x 55 all divided by heat input x 3600

for the origigal postthis equals to = 55 x 4.2 x 55 / 4 x 3600

= 0.88 hours or 53 minutes with no radiators on

regards Boating biker
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#13 mrsmelly

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 04:48 PM

I don't think Lesd is switching it on and off again. I imagine that he's probably still got it set to its default mode which is to automatically turn itself off after a period (I thought it was an hour, but Lesd is saying 50 mins). As these things are intended for defrosting vehicles, you can see why they have this feature. You set it to come on to defrost your truck at a certain time and then it switches itself off without you having to remember. About the only thing capable of drowning out the noise of an operating Webasto is probably an 8 litre truck diesel, but I digress. There's a little connector inside (if memory serves) that you set to stop it doing this which means that from them on you have to turn it off manually. Most boat users of Webastos (in my experience) do this.


HELP !!!!
Whilst we are at it Pleeeeeeeese can someone remind me which buttons on the timer jobby do what ? I just switch mine on/off as and when needed and it never fails but I have recently started to work again and have to get out of bed before lunch and would sometimes want it to come on etc. Got the paperwork somewhere but cant find it. Its a square plastic jobby that says " heatmiser " on it with three buttons then a red blob and three more buttons along the bottom. I know how to on/off but trying to programme it without paperwork for a dinosaur is not happening :unsure:

Tim
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#14 Ark Right

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:30 PM

We have a 4kw webasto system. Assuming summer with rads at minimum heat, how long would we expect it to have to run to heat enough water for 2 shortish showers...ie a 55lt calorifiers worth max?
Looking to go solar water powered eventually, but in the meantime....... ?


I'm not going to be very popular for this reply knowing you are are a very respected contributor, but hey ho some things need to be said.

Ally, if I was going to buy a boat from you I would expect, no absolutely require, you to know the answer to this question.
How could I have confidence in your teams technical abilities to design a boat that will function correctly for me if you don't understand the fundamentals of boat systems
Sorry but it is really basic get it right stuff you are asking here
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A
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#15 jelunga

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:14 AM

Technical using heat input (kW) = litres x specific heat capacity of water (4.2) x rise in temperature (normally 55 deg C) all divided by time (hrs) X seconds in 1 hour (3600)

rearranged results in time (hours) = litres x 4.2 x 55 all divided by heat input x 3600

for the origigal postthis equals to = 55 x 4.2 x 55 / 4 x 3600

= 0.88 hours or 53 minutes with no radiators on

regards Boating biker

But rhat assunes always in high heat mode. These little lighters often go into low heat mode if the heat transfer rate out is less than in.
So double it to be sure.
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#16 Nine of Hearts

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:45 AM

HELP !!!!
...


Posted Image

My timer looks like that, and to turn the heat on and off you press the little flame thingie on the left. If memory serves, to set it to "timed" you simply press the "set" button, and the set time will display in the window along with a little superscript numeral indicating which time slot. If you want it to come on at a different time to that displayed, you can adjust the time up or down with the left and right arrows, or you can press "set" again to see what the next saved time is. There are three available slots. When you're done leave it alone and it will come on at your selected time. And stay on. That last bit is important, with one of these you have to turn it off manually.

If you're timer doesn't look like this, apologies for wasting everybody's time... :blush:
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#17 Ally

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:46 AM

I'm not going to be very popular for this reply knowing you are are a very respected contributor, but hey ho some things need to be said.

Ally, if I was going to buy a boat from you I would expect, no absolutely require, you to know the answer to this question.
How could I have confidence in your teams technical abilities to design a boat that will function correctly for me if you don't understand the fundamentals of boat systems
Sorry but it is really basic get it right stuff you are asking here
Posted Image
A

Hi,
We usually fit the 5kw webasto heaters in our boats, but I bought myself a 4kw one, knowing I would mostly want it just for hot water (and trying to save a bit of my money) My part in Beacon is not specific to the heating systems we use, and whilst I have a working knowledge of what we DO use, I am not the expert in that particular field. The question was one my personal partner and I were pondering from home, not work, and therefore rather than speak to my work partner and break into his time, I posted it here looking for a swift answer, which happily most on the thread have given me.
I am PART of the business, I do not pretend to know every detail of every area of every boat and system. There are some areas that are specific to me, which I could give very thorough information on, heating is not one of them though, thus we are a team. You will also see me posting about engines which are also not my specific area of work within the business. Question answered?
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#18 ditchcrawler

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

But rhat assunes always in high heat mode. These little lighters often go into low heat mode if the heat transfer rate out is less than in.
So double it to be sure.

Which is why I asked if using both coils of a twin coil calorifier would help
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