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#21 Tuscan

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

As long as its a right handed one I should be OK.
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#22 Doorman

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:22 PM

Hi all

Just to let you know that I'm making and painting Tuscan's rag mop....I'll hunt out my tin of striped paint soon!!!

Cheers

Dave


While you're there, can you fetch me some of that diamond paint too, I'm doing the top of our pigeon box! :wacko:

Edited by Doorman, 08 April 2012 - 08:22 PM.

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#23 Speedwheel

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:39 AM

Makes no difference, like people who suggest putting a wrong handed prop on back to front ;)

Tim


:rolleyes:

As long as its a right handed one I should be OK.


I know someone who used to tell people that he couldn't do locks because no one made a left handed windlass.

And someone else who went to look at an engine, decided he didn't want it, but told the seller that it was no good for him as it came with the left handed starting handle.
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#24 Ray T

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:49 PM

There is a rag mop on the roof of the mock up of "Sunny Valley" at Stoke Bruerne museum:

Posted Image

The mop head is held in place with a rubber washer and a diamond coach bolt.

Edited by Ray T, 09 April 2012 - 04:20 PM.

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Ray T

Don't make plans anymore, have dreams instead.

Everybody has a plan until they get a punch in the mouth - Mike Tyson

 

"All he's learnt is churning up the mud and knocking down the banks and that is all he will ever know, I can tell you that.
'ere hand up a bit more grub".


#25 Timleech

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:52 PM

There is a rag mop on the roof of the mock up of "Sunny Valley" at Stoke Bruerne museum:

Posted Image

The mop head is held in place with a rubber washer and a diamond coach bolt.


What's a diamond coach bolt?
How do you screw a coach bolt into the end of the stale? Others have referred to using a coach bolt, I'm a bit mystified.
I've made a few mops in the now rather distant past, generally used a rose head spike (I appreciate not everyone will have those to hand), & a strip of tough leather as a washer, looped over the head of the spike so that the spike passes through it twice and the leather also shields the spike head from causing damage.

Tim
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#26 Davidss

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:00 PM

How do you screw a coach bolt into the end of the stale?

You drill a pilot hole, as when putting any large diameter screw in to a piece of wood with a small cross section. (Large and Small are relative to each other, obviously).

What's a diamond coach bolt? ...
I've made a few mops in the now rather distant past, generally used a rose head spike (I appreciate not everyone will have those to hand).

Diamond Coach Bolt, this American site refers to a Diamond Head Lag Screw, but it's the concept of a Diamond Head that is significant.
I've failed to find a link to the image that this forum will accept, but they can be seen here.
EDIT I've now found the same image on another site.
Posted Image

In return, perhaps you can display a "rose head spike" for those of us who not only think they don't "have those to hand", but don't actually know what to look for. :-)

HTH

Edited by Davidss, 09 April 2012 - 06:10 PM.

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#27 Ray T

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:02 PM

What's a diamond coach bolt?
How do you screw a coach bolt into the end of the stale? Others have referred to using a coach bolt, I'm a bit mystified.
I've made a few mops in the now rather distant past, generally used a rose head spike (I appreciate not everyone will have those to hand), & a strip of tough leather as a washer, looped over the head of the spike so that the spike passes through it twice and the leather also shields the spike head from causing damage.

Tim



When I worked for BT they used coach bolts to hold the footsteps in place on the wooden telegraph poles (still do). They were always hammered in, never screwed even though they were machined with a screw thread.

Similar to the illustration shown by Davidss. The ones BT use are longer though.

Posted Image

Of interest is the pointed leading end.

Edited by Ray T, 09 April 2012 - 07:39 PM.

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Ray T

Don't make plans anymore, have dreams instead.

Everybody has a plan until they get a punch in the mouth - Mike Tyson

 

"All he's learnt is churning up the mud and knocking down the banks and that is all he will ever know, I can tell you that.
'ere hand up a bit more grub".


#28 Timleech

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:07 PM

You drill a pilot hole, as when putting any large diameter screw in to a piece of wood with a small cross section. (Large and Small are relative to each other, obviously).


Diamond Coach Bolt, this American site refers to a Diamond Head Lag Screw, but it's the concept of a Diamond Head that is significant.
I've failed to find a link to the image that this forum will accept, but they can be seen here.
EDIT I've now found the same image on another site.
Posted Image

In return, perhaps you can display a "rose head spike" for those of us who not only think they don't "have those to hand", but don't actually know what to look for. :-)

HTH


Those are Coach SCREWS. I must admit I've never come across them with Diamond heads. A Coach Bolt is a BOLT with a domed head & a thread for a nut.

I reckon the one you've seen had a Rose Head spike in it ;)

I'll get a picture later & post it.

Tim
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#29 Timleech

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

I'll get a picture later & post it.

Tim


OK, three types of fastener, grabbed quickly in odd sizes:-

Posted Image

Random sizes, Coach Screw at the top (conventional square head, the most common type):
Two sizes of Coach Bolt:
Rose head Spike or Nail, commonly used in building wooden boats.


Rose Head spike in close up:-

Posted Image

Tim

Edited by Timleech, 09 April 2012 - 07:29 PM.

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#30 Ray T

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:32 PM

Those are Coach SCREWS. I must admit I've never come across them with Diamond heads. A Coach Bolt is a BOLT with a domed head & a thread for a nut.

I reckon the one you've seen had a Rose Head spike in it ;)

I'll get a picture later & post it.

Tim


Whether they are called screws or bolts really matters little, I think. But when I worked for BT they were always known as coach bolts which is why I refered to them as such.

The device in the mop at Stoke Bruerne did look like your last illustration. I have not heard of Rose Head Spikes before and I apparently eroneously though the fixing device was a diamond head bolt. You learn something every day. Possibly if rose head spikes are in short supply a diamond coach screw could be used.

Edited by Ray T, 10 April 2012 - 09:30 AM.

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Ray T

Don't make plans anymore, have dreams instead.

Everybody has a plan until they get a punch in the mouth - Mike Tyson

 

"All he's learnt is churning up the mud and knocking down the banks and that is all he will ever know, I can tell you that.
'ere hand up a bit more grub".


#31 steven wilkinson

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:32 PM

I would have called the top one a coach bolt, the next two roofing bolts - and I haven't come across the last one, so I don't have an alternative name for that!

Must be a regional thing! :cheers:

Edited by steven wilkinson, 09 April 2012 - 07:34 PM.

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#32 Timleech

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:38 PM

I would have called the top one a coach bolt, the next two roofing bolts - and I haven't come across the last one, so I don't have an alternative name for that!

Must be a regional thing! :cheers:


A roofing bolt has a slotted head (usually a crossed slot) and no square under the head, which is there on a Coach Bolt to grip the wood so it doesn't turn when you tighten the nut. Roofing Bolts are usually 6mm dia, occasionally 8mm. The two bolts in my pic are 10mm and 16mm.

Hex head Coach Screws here

Tim

Edited by Timleech, 09 April 2012 - 07:40 PM.

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#33 JohnO

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:20 PM

Ray, the rose head spike was preferred as a coach screw could unscrew if the mop was spun the wrong way. All the coach screws shown here are the nice old imperial 4 sided ones, nowadays they have a metric hex head.
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#34 Davidss

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:36 PM

Ignoring the screw / bolt differences, it seems to my eyes that the Diamond Head and the Rose Head are essentially different names for the same style of head, so if faced with a pile of old fasteners we would have picked out the same design.
Going back to the beginning and re-reading Blossoms How-To, he may start with a Coach Bolt, but by judicious use of a grinder he converts it to a square section tapered 'nail' or spike, and then hammers it into a pilot hole.
OK, given the starting point, it's not going to have a Diamond or Rose head, but I think it operates in essentially the same manner.

I do note that the head isn't directly protected from damaging the surface being mopped, but I suspect as the mop is always held at an angle, and the tongues of material are concentrated at that point, the danger was felt to be minimised.

I afraid that for me this is armchair boating, and not likely to change, so practical experience outscores any suggestion of mine.

Cheers.

Edited by Davidss, 09 April 2012 - 08:40 PM.

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#35 Speedwheel

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:41 PM

Posted Image

Tim


That's what I'm using but I can only find one amoung all my bits and pieces - you wouldn't have a couple more I could purchase from you would you Tim?
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#36 Timleech

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:10 PM

That's what I'm using but I can only find one amoung all my bits and pieces - you wouldn't have a couple more I could purchase from you would you Tim?


I'm sure I can find a couple more, that one is about the right size for a mop.

I was taught at a very early age that screws are not very good into end grain, nails are better. Of course, if driving a substantial spike into a not very substantial mop stale, you have to be sure to get the pre-drilling spot on! I have salvaged one or two split stales by reinforcing them with metal ferrules.


Tim
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#37 Speedwheel

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:13 PM

I'm sure I can find a couple more, that one is about the right size for a mop.

I was taught at a very early age that screws are not very good into end grain, nails are better. Of course, if driving a substantial spike into a not very substantial mop stale, you have to be sure to get the pre-drilling spot on! I have salvaged one or two split stales by reinforcing them with metal ferrules.


Tim


Thanks Tim.

I am using an inch and a half ash handle which I have put metal ferrules (35mm copper pipe) on the end (having turing the wood down a bit to make it fit flush) to prevent splitting.
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#38 Doorman

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

When I worked for BT they used coach bolts to hold the footsteps in place on the wooden telegraph poles (still do). They were always hammered in, never screwed even though they were machined with a screw thread.


If ever I found my fitters doing the same thing, I'd pinch all of their spanners from out of their toolbox. They soon learnt to fit screws properly after that!
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#39 madcat

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:04 PM

If you don't get it right or the handle splits or aliens zap with the drop to bits death ray while zipping past in their space ship the head flies off the mop and goes spinning into the canal and sinks. Voice of experience here,you only see the aliens after a few pints otherwise sudden mop failure is another of lifes little mysteries.A bit like orbs n stuff.
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#40 Doorman

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:44 AM

If you don't get it right or the handle splits or aliens zap with the drop to bits death ray while zipping past in their space ship the head flies off the mop and goes spinning into the canal and sinks. Voice of experience here,you only see the aliens after a few pints otherwise sudden mop failure is another of lifes little mysteries.A bit like orbs n stuff.


:P
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