179 replies to this topic

[wrigglefingers]

Okay, this is the start. We became the proud owners of nb Imagine on Sunday. I thought I'd start posting a getting started blog here for a number of reasons. It'll keep me from despair, I hope, as I check how much progress I make. It'll serve as a guide for other new-starters and should provide you all with a good laugh as you spot my elementary mistakes. I've started keeping a spreadsheet on costs so far as a result of a discussion on living costs so if you'd like a copy drop me a PM and I'll email you.

The summary

nb Imagine was built in 1993 by Delph Marine. She's 58ft and has a 10/8:6:4mm spec and a newish (late 2002) Beta 43HP Greenline engine. No central heating but 3 rads supplied by a back boiler on the Squirrel and a manual pump. Hot water is supplied by a calorifier and Rinnai heater and she has a 1.8kw inverter. The cratch was added a few years ago and is in good condition as is the stern cover. She needs the bottom bearing on the rudder sorting out, re-blacking and bigger anodes; I also need to check the stub pipe penetrations to the hull for decay and investigate a leak in the engine 'ole. The fitout is oak and very tired but there's no sign of any major damage or rust even around the windows and the external paintwork is a slightly faded red but in good order (no flaking) with any scrapes primered over winter. She generally needs tidying up and re-painting/varnishing before Ellen and I move aboard in May.

Steelwork and complicated stuff

As my skills as a welder and electrician are totally non-existent I've made a 'throw some money at this problem' decision and asked a boat engineer to i) do the rudder bearing, ii) the stern gland, iii) tell me how the electricity works and suggest sensible changes to make it work safely and iv) do the anodes and the blacking.

He's also going to show me how to re-pack the stuffing box in future but the critical part is sorting out the electricity. There's no wiring diagram which makes me uneasy at the moment, because the electricity is supplied in a number of different ways none of which make much sense. On the cut it's simple I think. The Beta charges both the starter and the battery bank (which exists at present as two batteries supplying the inverter, (will be three next week) and one supplying the 12V circuit). When the batteries discharge; no electricity, no problem. In the marina, it's more confused. There's a landline supplying 230V into which a car charger is plugged. This is connected to the batteries (which are 6V) by crocodile clips to the terminal. Presumably, then the 230V supply is via the batteries and inverter but I'm totally confused. Worse, the whole of the landline and the plug connection is exposed to the elements, protected by a worn out Sainsbury's plastic bag, balanced on the storage locker at the stern end. It may be the most amazingly safe system ever devised; I wouldn't know, but I don't think it'll stand up to the sort of rough love a seventeen year old is likely to give it as they race round the boat and that's my criteria. Remember - electricity kills so I've unplugged the landline.

Inside

Working from the stern there's two glory holes one of which would serve as a hanging space with enough room to fit a washing machine in should I ever get the electricity sorted out. On the other side of the rear steps is another space which would benefit from having some shelves fitted for Ellen's storage (or mine if I can swing it - nearly 2000 cds to store somewhere!). Both need some repair and repainting as they're pretty grubby, filthy really.

Ellen's berth is a single/convertible double in a rather sad state of repair. She's got portholes and oak finish everywhere, the carpet on the side walls is dark red and damaged, and the look is completed by bare foam mattresses. It's really dark and a little dismal so I'm going to i) rebuild her berth and recover the foam mattresses, ii) sort out her overhead cupboard doors so that they close (and stay closed), iii) replace the carpet with t & g and try to persuade her that the tatty oak veneer will be improved by liming or repainting.

The bathroom is also showing it's age. I've replaced the porta potti with a new one (excitement), the tiles are in good order but unspeakably tasteless and the bath is elderly and scratched. Short of some re-painting though, it's going to have to wait until next year.

My berth is basic but it has the side hatch. The mattress needs replacing but the storage under the bed is vast and with the help of wheeled storage boxes will more than suffice. The oak veneer is in good nick in here; just needing a little re-varnishing.

The kitchen needs all manner of stuff doing to it at some time in the future, but at the moment it works so it'll stay as it is until next year. (Needs a decent cooker though!).

The saloon is fine, needs re-varnishing, new rugs and downlighters. The manual pump needs attention and the stove outer flue needs re-bedding between the pipe and the top of the stove (I'm hoping black fire cement should do the job tomorrow). Eventually, I'd like to replace the carpeted sides below the gunnels with t & g but not yet. We do need new curtains (and lots of them) so the sewing machine is out already.

On top of all that there are numerous little jobs that will just soak up time, not to mention trying to find a suitable table and chairs (no dinette). I was debating whether to take down all of the lining to check for corrosion but with no evidence of any and a really tight time schedule I've decided not to for the time being. I spent a sleepless night after viewing Moley's blog but the boat engineer just belted me round the ear and told me to relax and enjoy more.

I will post some photos as soon as I can - I haven't finished school this week before it gets dark so far but will try tomorrow, I promise.

Regards, Jill

[Moley]

I spent a sleepless night after viewing Moley's blog but the boat engineer just belted me round the ear and told me to relax and enjoy more.

Love it Ours is ten years older than yours though.

Well done Jill, this is sounding fantastic.

With your sense of humour and style of writing I feel this is going to be a great one to watch. Look forward to seeing the pics.

Best of luck,
Ade.

Edited by Moley, 15 March 2006 - 12:27 AM.

[DaveR]

Hi Jill,

Just a couple of thoughts . . . . .

Instead of covering tired matresses, the covers will be expensive unless you are doing them yourself, but have a look at Ikea for their matresses. They start from 30ish and go up from there with loads of sizes in between. Here in Norway I am sleeping on an Ikea bed and can vouch for the comfort for my old bones.

Varnish, to re-varnish you are going to have to use wire wool to remove all the old before applying new. As an alternative (because I am not good at varnishing) try waxing. Which ever way you go, don't do too much at once - a square foot or so for rubbing down, apply first coat and leave, move onto next. When done the bulkhead or section, give it a light rub down all over (give the "joins" extra attention to remove any lines) and apply one more coat to achieve an even finish.

I am intrigued by the manual pump on the heating, is literally a manually operated pump or a manually switched electric one?

What ever keep smilling.

Dave R

[dor]

A couple more points Jill..

Get a tube of black high temp silicone to bed the flue in to the collar at the top of the stove. Fire cement is forever cracking.

Table: Argos (I think) do a small drop-leaf table with four folding chairs which slot inside the table. Really efficient use of space, and one side can be lifted to use or eating for two.

Have fun!

[Paula]

Enjoy your boat....can't wait to see the pics

Paula XXX

ps don't let school get in the way of your new venture!!!!

[Keeping Up]

Wonderful, Jill. You've got a lot of tasks ahead of you, and I know you're going to enjoy (almost) every one of them. Good decision to recognise the jobs you can't do, and immediately get someone elso to do that while you concentrate on the rest.

2000 CD's ??? That's a LOT of music! If you HAVE to keep them as CD's, I presume you're ditching the plastic boxes and using those portable cases that take 100 at a time? On the other hand, with every inch of space being so very valuable on a boat can you store the content in another way - such as on your computer (buy an extra USB drive specially for the purpose if necessary).

Keep writing and posting,
Allan

[Moley]

2000 CD's ??? That's a LOT of music! If you HAVE to keep them as CD's, I presume you're ditching the plastic boxes and using those portable cases that take 100 at a time?

Perish the thought Allan! CD cases and inserts have never been as nice as LP sleeves, but you would never discard the cases. Although my own never get played nowadays.

On the other hand ... you can store the content in another way - such as on your computer.

Quite right Jill, digitise them all and buy yourself an iPod (I carry 500 CDs in my pocket, and pod's not full) then send 'em to me. I'll look after them for you

[charles123]

Wonderful, Jill. You've got a lot of tasks ahead of you, and I know you're going to enjoy (almost) every one of them. Good decision to recognise the jobs you can't do, and immediately get someone elso to do that while you concentrate on the rest.

2000 CD's ??? That's a LOT of music! If you HAVE to keep them as CD's, I presume you're ditching the plastic boxes and using those portable cases that take 100 at a time? On the other hand, with every inch of space being so very valuable on a boat can you store the content in another way - such as on your computer (buy an extra USB drive specially for the purpose if necessary).

Keep writing and posting,
Allan

The easiest thing to do with the CD/s is to get a DVD burner free of the internet, burn them to DVD,s which have a vast storage for MP3 files then get a DVD player, plug it into your TV then play your music via the TV thus saving a vast amount of storage space for CD collection.
One step further you might consider is once copied sell them on EBAY to help pay for the boat!

Charles

[DHutch]

Get a tube of black high temp silicone to bed the flue in to the collar at the top of the stove. Fire cement is forever cracking.

Table: Argos (I think) do a small drop-leaf table with four folding chairs which slot inside the table. Really efficient use of space, and one side can be lifted to use or eating for two.

Yeah, great points.
- I was just about the mention the high-temp sealent too, its great stuff.
- The blacks quite hard to get hold of, so we used the red, and this is much more readly avaable. (Ours is 300degree, and seams to do just fine)

The table dor talks about is great too. Thats exactly what we have!

My grandad saw it on an add he got in with a bank statment dueing the time he was designing the fit out, and he redesigned the whole galley area around it!
- It works really really well, he took the wheels off it,and replacnced them with wooden blocks
- It lives flat agasnst the wall, with a hook fixin it to the , after it fell over once during a rather violent bang.
- When theres 2/3/4 of us we just put it out about a foot towards the fixed seating and open one leaf. Chair on each side, and two on the fixed seating
- Then if theres lots of us, we can turn it round and open both leafes, and with two chairs at each end, and 2/3 on the fixed seating, you can get 6/7 people round it, with maybe 2 others standing. Its a little cramd with more then 6 of you, but still, very very good.

I cant find it on te argos site, but i have found this site, which atleast has a good photo of it.
- As dor says, the end opens, and all the four chairs go inside, neat or what!
- I've also seen a verison of it for sale with half round leafes.


Daniel

[dor]

didn't think my searching would beat yours Daniel!

Argos sets: http://www.argos.co......ning+sets.htm


Cheaper too at £129.

Look on Argos sites under

> Furniture > Dining room furniture > Breakfast bars and butterfly dining sets

for othre similar options.

[John Orentas]

I had a drawing of a double drop leaf table knocking around for a few years, narrow and low enough to fit under the gunnel when folded but never got round to making it. Then I happened to be in an antique shop, there was my table exactly as I had drawn it and in solid oak, bought it for £50. I have seen a few others since.

[DHutch]

With the CDs, jewel cases i beleave are 10mm wide. So 2000cases, is 20metres worth. Thats a lot!

I know people get very attached to Cd's. Not only the music, but the phical CD (and case) as well.
- It would be quite possable to sort them on the boat, but personaly, i would be be tempted to try to sort thought them and cut down on numbers. Passing them on on ebay, or second hand record stores.

Other possabilys are to put them all into cloth carrysing cases, such as the ones SVP sell LINKY
- This is what i do with my DVD's I have a 3/4 of the 50-disk ones.

Anther possably is to rip them all into MP3's (or simular) and store them that way. Eather on your PC's HDD, or on data DVD/CD's
- I have a about 6000tracks, in 450 folders, taking up 25GB
- Which i estimate is about equivelent to 400 jewelcases worth.

Riping 2000 Disks to MP3 is not a minor task in itself, and certainly not something you can do in an evening.
- Also, its deffornatly not somthing you want to do twice, so if you do, making sure you chose a sensable file-format, bit-rate, titleing and filing stratage. (ie, dont burn them all to .wma file on WMP's default settings...)

You can then eather play them on a PC, using iTunes/winamp/WMPlayer, or whatever.
- Or as charles says, burn them onto DVD and play them on a Set-top dvd player (needs tv on to browse) (each DVD is 4.7GB)
- Or you can get a hifi or car sterio that can play MP3s.
- Or i portable MP3 player, such as an the iRiver, the Creative zen, or an iPod. (which you could then conect to a hifi or other speakers)

Or you can do a mixture of the above.
- Sell off 1/2 or 2/3 of your collection, puting a percentage of that onto the PC.
- And then you only have 800 or so jewelcases. Or something like that.

Its really upto you!


Daniel

[DHutch]

Didn't think my searching would beat yours Daniel!

Argos sets: http://www.argos.co......ning+sets.htm

Well found!
- I have to admit, i hate the argos site, so i didnt spend very long looking, before i hit google images!
- There not eactly the same as what we have on the boat (unlike the link i provided) and i so im not able to comment on the quality of those. Certianly the quality of ours if very good indeed, its very solidly build, and looks as good now as it did the day it was bought 15 years ago, posable ive slightly better as the wood has darkened slightly in the sunlight and is now a lovly shade.

Also i beleave the price on my link is in US dollers, so its about £220 real money.


Daniel

[Richard Bustens]

B&Q do one but a lot more expensive made of teak with 6 chairs.

Edited by Richard Bustens, 15 March 2006 - 03:17 PM.

[Bones]

B&Q do one but a lot more expensive made of teak with 6 chairs.

and I am sure I have seen them in IKEA.

[DHutch]

Wiringwise, i think your right, the first thing to do is get a wiring diagram drawn up.
- Even if its just the "core" of the system, rather than every single plug/socket, that just about enough, then you can set back and look at it.


Thats what i did for our boat about 2 years ago.
- I had a rought idea, but i didnt really know eactly what was going where, so i drew a picture, using my grandads knowlage of the boat, and what i could see/get at.
- I couldnt trace the whole lenght of wires, so i started off looking at the battery area, where the dometic batterys, and the mains the charger where. And noted down all the wires (thick blue one, 3 thin black ones, etc) where the went to on the batterys/charger, and in what direnction they dissappered to!
- Then i did the same at the 12v distubution box, where most of the varous meter are, etc.
- Then i started peicing the bits together. Ahh, that thick blue one goes to the -ve of the alternator, those three thing black ones are for the chargers display, etc,etc.

Having done that, i came up with this diagram
- Then i had a bit of a play with it, and came up with a proposal to change it to be like this
- You can see i have altered the wiring to take full advantve of the three outputs of the charger we have, as well as have a volt and amp meter per battery bank. And considered a split-diode in place of the manual switch for the change over of the single alternator we have.

We have a slightly odd electric system, as its is 24v (hence all the batterys being in pairs) and also becuase we have a steam engine, rather than diesal.
- Hence we only have one, fairly low power alternator, and keep the two domestic banks isolated, becuase we cant just fire up the engine in emergencys to generate some more elec.

I have also just drawn up two sample diagrams of roughly what your electrical system might look like.
- Assuming its 12v, and you have two alteranors. And and a change over switch to select the 240v supply to the boat. Which is the most common way. [Click Me]

Also, i did a diagram of what it might look like if you fitted a "Combi" Inverter/Charger to replace the existing charging/inverting setup [Click Me]


Daniel

[wrigglefingers]

I must say you chaps are just the best people. I didn't expect the response you gave and you've given me lots to think about over the next week.

I went to Imagine this evening and took numerous photographs and then uploaded them to an image hosting site, so I hoping that this will work. I haven't done any tweaking so apologies for the quality and the size.

This is nb Imagine in the dry dock after survey ......





This is the bow and cratch .......





and this is the saloon ......



and reverse view .......



NB ample shelving for cds (but still not enough by a a factor of about 10 or so)

The manual switch for the rads pump demonstrating the general standard of wiring on this boat





The galley





My berth (looks suspiciously tidy; soon have that covered with stuff I reckon) .......





The lav (featuring the tiles Ellen said had to to go. She's coping with the idea of a Porta Potti by delicately, but ostentatiously ignoring said item). Please note careful co-ordination of curtain, tiles and spongy thing; essentials for any bathroom.





Ellen's pit





Badger the Bodger's favourite place. What does all this stuff do??????





That's the fitout stuff - should keep Ellen quiet for a couple of days sorting that lot out (I wish).

Engine 'ole pictures to follow when I've uploaded them successfully.

Regards,

Jill

[wrigglefingers]

Okay, round 2; down the engine 'ole (argh!)





And looking good in every way, the red stuff is light rust not red primer as Ellen suggested




The totally inaccessible weedhatch (I just can't quite compress my body that small to get in there, so it looks like a job for Ellen!)



This is a job for a boy I think






Calorifier; it's not at a funny angle, I just can't stand straight (or even upright) sometimes ...... although perhaps that's the reason for the leak? The calorifier, not me I mean .......




And finally the landline connection (which isn't as bad as I thought but still not right somehow) and I misled you all - it was a Waitrose bag not Sainsbury's, clearly better quality!)





And finally I thought you'd like to see the culprit and the innocent bystander (she claims!)






'sfunny, I've just reviewed the photos and everything looks much worse than I thought. Suspect I'm just tired. Night folks....... (I'm off to dream about Vactan)

Jill

[John Orentas]

Looks like a nice boat but not had a BSS inspection for a while I suspect, those batteries should be clamped down in some way.

[Keeping Up]

Well done Jill for posting all those.

I agree with Ellen about the bathroom tiles. But apart from that it all looks really good. The electrics remind me of my first boat - especially the central heating pump arrangement - but it didn't take much to get mine sorted out and I'd be willing to bet that yours won't take much effort to do the same - although I must say the Waitrose bag looks to be in rather poor condition and I'd definitely recommend replacing it at the first opportunity.

You must be so excited!
Allan