Communication Afloat – is it “Good to Talk”?

[RobinR]

There have been a fair number of comments within topics on this site re the above, but how many of us have more than the ubiquitous mobile phone?

 

There is mobile internet but how available is this along the waterways?

 

We use 446MHz PMR 8-channel hand held radios – very handy for requesting another cup of tea etc and general chat on the boat and nearby e.g. whilst working locks.

 

There is also Amateur Radio, VHF marine radio and 27MHz CB – does anyone use these?

 

I hold an amateur licence (G4IRD) and operate from my boat but rarely with other inland boaters.

 

Could we / should we make better use of these?

[Mac of Cygnet]

There have been a fair number of comments within topics on this site re the above, but how many of us have more than the ubiquitous mobile phone?

 

There is mobile internet but how available is this along the waterways?

 

We use 446MHz PMR 8-channel hand held radios – very handy for requesting another cup of tea etc and general chat on the boat and nearby e.g. whilst working locks.

 

There is also Amateur Radio, VHF marine radio and 27MHz CB – does anyone use these?

 

I hold an amateur licence (G4IRD) and operate from my boat but rarely with other inland boaters.

 

Could we / should we make better use of these?

 

No

 

Don't have any of those, and mobile phone is switched off except by prior arrangement.

 

But hey! Everyone to their own. Chat away as much as you like.

 

Cheers

 

Mac

[Ray]

Robin

 

Was a thread a little while back on similar lines that touched on Amateur Radio. See if you can find it using the search facility.

[Hair Bear Bunch]

Always got Vhf ch16 dw to locality, and 27mhz CB, wouldn't be without them and occasionally paid the price with a flat battery! Often considered doing a ham licence, but the boat is only a 14' yoghurt pot and close to top heavy now without having a 6 element beam to play with. Mind you, on a 70' narrow boat a 35x35 di-pole horizontaly polarized might work ok.

Mac, I know what you mean. We go abroad occasionally, phone doesn't work, can't read the newspapers or understand the radio and it's great!

[jelunga]

I agree with the idea. However, the range of the PMR is quite limited, and too many "channel options". Now, to use 27Mhz CB would be a good idea, but there is not a morse option. When we (eventually) get our boat, I will certainly try to obtain my amateur license. I believe it is somewhat easier now than when I last tried it in 1968. I just couldn't understand the questions on valves, and those transistors thingys.

 

 

 

Keith

 

There have been a fair number of comments within topics on this site re the above, but how many of us have more than the ubiquitous mobile phone?

 

There is mobile internet but how available is this along the waterways?

 

We use 446MHz PMR 8-channel hand held radios – very handy for requesting another cup of tea etc and general chat on the boat and nearby e.g. whilst working locks.

 

There is also Amateur Radio, VHF marine radio and 27MHz CB – does anyone use these?

 

I hold an amateur licence (G4IRD) and operate from my boat but rarely with other inland boaters.

 

Could we / should we make better use of these?

[Mac of Cygnet]

Mac, I know what you mean. We go abroad occasionally, phone doesn't work, can't read the newspapers or understand the radio and it's great!

 

Ha! I'm completely in touch when in Spain, with all of those working. Only on the canals do I completely escape from reality.

[Keeping Up]

I find the PMR radios extremely useful. Not just at locks, but as a way of asking the crew for a coffee, help, etc (SWMBO complains that just beeping the horn to alert her is like ringing down for a servant, and she says I don't say please when I beep the horn - I can do that (perfectly fluent in morse as G3XJO) but it takes forever!)

 

We've also got VHF marine radio and CB on board, but they plug into the same connectors (after changing the aerial on the roof of course) so we have to choose one or the other. VHF radio is wonderful on the rivers (being able to radio ahead and ask the lock-keeper to set the lock for you is just heaven) but I don't think we've used the CB for at least 10 years.

 

As for Keith's comment about valves and transistors, I still don't really believe in transistors. I just can't see how they can work without their cathode being heated up, but they always seem to go wrong if I put 6.3v ac across their heaters

[Roger Gunkel]

I agree with the idea. However, the range of the PMR is quite limited, and too many "channel options". Now, to use 27Mhz CB would be a good idea, but there is not a morse option. When we (eventually) get our boat, I will certainly try to obtain my amateur license. I believe it is somewhat easier now than when I last tried it in 1968. I just couldn't understand the questions on valves, and those transistors thingys.

 

 

 

Keith

 

Hi Keith,

 

I'll probably get an ear battering for saying this, but why would you want morse on CB radio, if you can just press the mike and say 'Jelunga calling Fred' rather than Di da da da, di, di di, etc etc, which few would understand?

 

Roger

[NB Willawaw]

I'm an ex ships radio officer and used morse daily.

 

There is a difference between using communications for efficiency/necessity or because its is clever/fun.

 

Strangely enough, amateur radio has no attraction for me.

 

I have VHF on the boat but always get shouted down when I suggest using it on canals.

 

PMR446 can be useful for very short range comms (as previously mentioned).

 

I remember 27MHz FM CB when it really caught on in the late seventies. Mag mount tuned aerials

and SWR meters, etc.

 

TBH I think Marine VHF is better and quite cheap now. Obviously, it can't be used for idle chatter.

 

Modern instant messaging and internet based communications is so efficient these days, it serves

most of my communication needs when afloat.

Edited December 30, 2008 by NB Willawaw

[RobinR]

Robin

 

Was a thread a little while back on similar lines that touched on Amateur Radio. See if you can find it using the search facility.

 

Yes I know, I felt combining the topics may generate a little more interest!

 

Always got Vhf ch16 dw to locality, and 27mhz CB, wouldn't be without them and occasionally paid the price with a flat battery! Often considered doing a ham licence, but the boat is only a 14' yoghurt pot and close to top heavy now without having a 6 element beam to play with. Mind you, on a 70' narrow boat a 35x35 di-pole horizontaly polarized might work ok.

Mac, I know what you mean. We go abroad occasionally, phone doesn't work, can't read the newspapers or understand the radio and it's great!

 

The licence is now a mandatory 3-stage process. The foundation licence permits 5 watts on most bands using propriety equipment. This is well within the ability range of 11 year olds who have an appropriate interest. The intermediate licence allows up to 50 watts output and the use of home built equipment and the full licence up to 400 watts output with none of the restrictions applied to the other two classes of licence. There is no longer a morse requirement and lapsed licences can be easily re-instated.

 

I agree with the idea. However, the range of the PMR is quite limited, and too many "channel options". Now, to use 27Mhz CB would be a good idea, but there is not a morse option. When we (eventually) get our boat, I will certainly try to obtain my amateur license. I believe it is somewhat easier now than when I last tried it in 1968. I just couldn't understand the questions on valves, and those transistors thingys.

 

 

 

Keith

 

- see the above comment

 

I'm an ex ships radio officer and used morse daily.

 

There is a difference between using communications for efficiency/necessity or because its is clever/fun.

 

Strangely enough, amateur radio has no attraction for me.

 

I have VHF on the boat but always get shouted down when I suggest using it on canals.

 

PMR446 can be useful for very short range comms (as previously mentioned).

 

I remember 27MHz FM CB when it really caught on in the late seventies. Mag mount tuned aerials

and SWR meters, etc.

 

TBH I think Marine VHF is better and quite cheap now. Obviously, it can't be used for idle chatter.

 

Modern instant messaging and internet based communications is so efficient these days, it serves

most of my communication needs when afloat.

 

I am an ex RAF wireless operator and also used morse daily for a number of years. This neither encouraged me to nor discouraged me from Amateur Radio as a hobby. Both boating /Inland Waterways and Radio as a hobby have more in common than is initially apparent. For example talking about common interests, listening about other peoples other interests and life experiences etc.

 

Marine VHF requires a licence which in turn requires an exam to be passed - may as well go for a Foundation Amateur licence!

 

446 MHz seems to be the most common equipment in use which is restricted to 5 spot frequencies between 446.0MHz and 446.1MHz thus maybe we could all agree to select ch5 as the one to listen on for other boaters e.g. when approaching locks?

[NB Willawaw]

The licence for VHF is free and obtainable over the t'internet now.

To get the operators licence, newbies need to do a one day course for the short range certificate.

 

Your idea about Ch5/PMR446 is a good un but people don't need it enough to remember or bother.

[dccruiser]

I have vhf on board as we are "on the river" also have recently picked up a uk and euro channeled cb as a few in the locality use them on their sea going craft.

I still have one of the old CB dx'ing rigs with around 420 channels but havent used it for a long time, so along with my old vhf rig it will be up for sale when i dig it out.

With CB not being so popular nowadays and using it out in the sticks it works well as you dont often get the morons on there you used to encounter in the 80's

[Dyad]

I have vhf on board as we are "on the river" also have recently picked up a uk and euro channeled cb as a few in the locality use them on their sea going craft.

I still have one of the old CB dx'ing rigs with around 420 channels but havent used it for a long time, so along with my old vhf rig it will be up for sale when i dig it out.

With CB not being so popular nowadays and using it out in the sticks it works well as you dont often get the morons on there you used to encounter in the 80's

 

 

We used the PMR radios on our last holiday, great for tiller to cabin or tiller to lock but if your crew goes further afield, say to the next lock, it'll soon be out of reach. I found the transmit delay for sending the code a bit of a problem too, more so for the peeps not used to using radios.

 

I loved CB 20 years or so ago, it was great fun despite the keyers, music players and bucket mouths etc. I liked the fact you can have base stations, 12v units and hand helds. I bought a new rig a couple of years ago, a Maycom, they have certainly moved on. I'm quite tempted in the hand held but convincing the other half is more difficult as he's more likely to be doing the locks, I've even tried to tell him he wouldn't have to hold the whole thing up to his mouth, he could have one of those speaker mics or a hands free kit with a PTT on the lead but no :-(

 

What I'd really like to see is a radio that could be dual VHF and CB. VHF for the marine/ship to shore bits and CB for crew and boat to boat chit chat but I don't suppose there would be much call for such a unit.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Dyad

[dccruiser]

We used the PMR radios on our last holiday, great for tiller to cabin or tiller to lock but if your crew goes further afield, say to the next lock, it'll soon be out of reach. I found the transmit delay for sending the code a bit of a problem too, more so for the peeps not used to using radios.

 

I loved CB 20 years or so ago, it was great fun despite the keyers, music players and bucket mouths etc. I liked the fact you can have base stations, 12v units and hand helds. I bought a new rig a couple of years ago, a Maycom, they have certainly moved on. I'm quite tempted in the hand held but convincing the other half is more difficult as he's more likely to be doing the locks, I've even tried to tell him he wouldn't have to hold the whole thing up to his mouth, he could have one of those speaker mics or a hands free kit with a PTT on the lead but no :-(

 

What I'd really like to see is a radio that could be dual VHF and CB. VHF for the marine/ship to shore bits and CB for crew and boat to boat chit chat but I don't suppose there would be much call for such a unit.

 

Would be useful to have a facility alongside the vhf to as you say general chit chat on , especially if it had the same power , we have as i believe others have , used vhf from boat to handheld on the canals and the range and clarity are excellent, the other thing it would encourage is boaters talking to each other whilst on the move to get updates of anything going on further on route as the cb,s did for drivers in the 80's. When we are on the river we use a pair of small 2 way radios i bought of flea bay ... they are alleged to have a 10 km range although i havent tried them to that, they do work very well and have hands free operation.

[NB Willawaw]

To be honest, I suspect that mobile phones have largely killed the need for a lot of communications on inland waterways.

 

Nearly all boaters ring other boats to organise meets and to enquire about conditions further on. Can you imagine what would

happen if the mobile phone had never been invented ?? Sales of VHF/CB etc would be much higher than they are now.

 

In the late 70's/early 80's - pre mobile phone, I believe that the CB explosion was largely due to the novelty factor of being

able to communicate wirelessly.

 

I've heard a minority of boaters preach the use of VHF (and PMR446 on a boaters channel), but until the majority buy in, it will

never happen.

 

I entered Thames Lock at Brentford from the tidal and there were about 4 boats vying to get in the lock. The BW lock-keeper wanted

to communicate which boats should enter first and was shouting down the entrance channel. Nobody could hear a word over their engines.

 

When we got in, I commented that he could use a VHF - he wasn't impressed.

We and several of the boats waiting there had VHF onboard. It would have seemed an ideal application.

In saying that, London VTS couldn't hear us calling when we left Teddington and entered the tidal.

Ended up calling them on the mobile.

Edited January 2, 2009 by NB Willawaw

[Nickhlx]

One of the problems with 27MHz CB is that the ground wave is severely limited in practise, to little more than a mile or two with legal powers / aerials in typical canal terrain. Aerials were deliberately inefficient to control range and power was a low 4 watts.

 

The 446 radios are similarly controlled with their fixed ( inefficient) aerials and max 0.5 watts out, although seem comparable to 27 MHz CB and far more compact / user friendly.

 

By complete contrast, even the basic Amateur Radio license (which really is very easy to get - plenty of under 10's have it !) but this gives you 10 watts, decent aerials and a choice of bands, equipment and repeaters to use. This equates to

maybe 5 to 10 miles handheld to handheld, and possibly much more, and via a repeater perhaps a 25 mile radius of that repeater. Many use / build simple aerials to double or triple the basic range.

 

There are also digital modes which use the Internet to choose which repeater you want to pop out of, anywhere in the WORLD and the license for all of this is the grand sum of £0 per year.....

 

Sets cost from about £100 new and secondhand are naturally cheaper - and the call charges are also quite cheap

at 0p per hour ... it makes you ( me) wonder why it isn't growing faster, even if only for personal use...

 

Nick

[onthecut]

just beeping the horn to alert her is like ringing down for a servant,

 

Good Grief, man ---- you mean you haven't got a servant to make the tea ?! This recession must be getting serious.

 

Mike.

 

(OK, off topic, but couldn't resist it)

[John Orentas]

Another one of those topics that comes up regularly.. I have always considered that CB radios are ideal for boaters, from person experience the range is in the region of 3 - 8 miles, for a group of boats travelling together this is ample and obviously equates to 2 - 2 hours travelling time.

 

There are thousands of sets knocking about, the going rate about a fiver from car boot sales.. One of the problems that hastened their demise was the nuisance of foul mouthed truck drivers on nearby motorways but I believe that is much diminished now.

[alan_fincher]

One of the problems that hastened their demise was the nuisance of foul mouthed truck drivers on nearby motorways but I believe that is much diminished now.

Not my experience when I was first involved in UK CB on FM when it was first legalised.

 

The lorry drivers were some of the few disciplined ones on there. What killed it was everybody buying sets for their kids for Xmas, only about 2 months after it launched

 

To the truckers it was a useful tool, to the w**kers at home, just something to sod up for everybody else.

 

Shortly after I studied and took my exams for a full amateur licence, but even those bands were not completely devoid of people who appeared to have had a lobotomy, unfortunately.

 

Alan

[NB Willawaw]

Unfortunately, with radio, being effectively an open channel, it only takes a minority to spoil it.

 

VHF is no exception and you get a few idiots on there as well.

 

 

The only difference with VHF is that if they go too far, they do get DF'd and prosecuted.

 

The common problem is the person who holds their press-to-talk button down so all you hear

is muffled conversation or engine noise.

Sometimes, they genuinely have a fault on their microphone - at least thats what they say when they get caught.

 

I agree with Alan about CB. Before satnav and road alert and all that good stuff, CB was the best

way of warning other road users about hold up's.

 

If you drove along the motorways in your Dagenham Dustbin, you would get pockets of anklebiters (I think that's what they were called)

talking across everybody.

[Roger Gunkel]

I used CB radio for a while a number of years ago, but came to the conclusion that only enthusiasts or brainless morons seemed to use it. The latter tending to spoil it for the former. Amateur radio in my opinion will never come into general use for a number of reasons: you need a licence that is free, but you need to take an exam. The average person cannot be bothered to find out where or how to do that, or be arsed to learn anything for an exam that isn't essential for everyday use. The equipment is not widely available and you need some specialist knowledge to know what you are buying. It is not convenient to carry around with you unlike a mobile phone or even the cheap PMRs. You can only also use them to call others with the same equipment, which makes them very expensive for the use they are going to get and very limited.

 

I have VHF on my seagoing boat, because it it part of the requirement for being safer, weather warnings, harbour/coastguard communications and emergencies, but it is also the established norm for seagoing vessels and all serious sailors would have VHF as essential rather than optional equipment. Unlike the inland waterways, the need to learn radio procedures, navigational techniques, the use of survival equipment and bad weather boat handling could be the difference between life and death. On the inland waterways, it tends more to be the difference between safe sensible boating or being a nuisance to others. As long as radio communication isn't a neccessity, I don't think people will bother except small enthusiast groups.

 

Roger

[NB Willawaw]

I tend to agree Roger.

 

VHF is a little chicken and egg on the inland waterways.

 

The <few> narrowboaters that I have met who use VHF equipment say they did the days course

and really enjoyed it. Not difficult, bit of a giggle and laced with tea and biscuits.

 

The course was around £85, the handhelds can be bought online for under £100 and the licence is free

for life.

 

They came out enthused and enthusiastic. Most seemed to buy handhelds and a lot got a radio callsign for their boat, which they

seemed quite proud of (their very own radio station).

The first thing they wanted to do was call somebody up and talk to them. They struggled to find anybody in range to talk to.

 

For a while, you get a myriad of radio checks (calling stations to get them to confirm that your radio

is working) but this wears thin after a while and professional shore stations like VTS get a bit irritated.

However, there simply aren't enough inland users to keep the momentum going.

 

Lack of practise means that you get rusty and then the radio gets consigned to the cupboard, to only be

brought out when doing the occasional tidal stretch, etc.

 

I've consigned myself to it being a fact of inland waterways life.

 

I use my VHF handheld quite often on inland waterways, just to keep it charged and make sure its working. I also have a fixed set with a mag mount aerial

and use it less often. We are on the Fens and more boats have it than on BW canals.

 

I never understand why inland marinas don't use it more. Its a great way of boats being able to call them up to see if they have any visitors berths, is their pumpout open today and so on. Don't think it costs much for a Ch80 licence for marina base stations - it was about £75.

 

I suspect the answer again lies in chicken and egg - not enough narrowboat to make it worthwhile.

Edited January 2, 2009 by NB Willawaw

[Roger Gunkel]

I tend to agree Roger.

 

VHF is a little chicken and egg on the inland waterways.

 

The <few> narrowboaters that I have met who use VHF equipment say they did the days course

and really enjoyed it. Not difficult, bit of a giggle and laced with tea and biscuits.

 

The course was around £85, the handhelds can be bought online for under £100 and the licence is free

for life.

 

They came out enthused and enthusiastic. Most seemed to buy handhelds and a lot got a radio callsign for their boat, which they

seemed quite proud of (their very own radio station).

The first thing they wanted to do was call somebody up and talk to them. They struggled to find anybody in range to talk to.

 

For a while, you get a myriad of radio checks (calling stations to get them to confirm that your radio

is working) but this wears thin after a while and professional shore stations like VTS get a bit irritated.

However, there simply aren't enough inland users to keep the momentum going.

 

Lack of practise means that you get rusty and then the radio gets consigned to the cupboard, to only be

brought out when doing the occasional tidal stretch, etc.

 

I've consigned myself to it being a fact of inland waterways life.

 

I use my VHF handheld quite often on inland waterways, just to keep it charged and make sure its working. I also have a fixed set with a mag mount aerial

and use it less often. We are on the Fens and more boats have it than on BW canals.

 

I never understand why inland marinas don't use it more. Its a great way of boats being able to call them up to see if they have any visitors berths, is their pumpout open today and so on. Don't think it costs much for a Ch80 licence for marina base stations - it was about £75.

 

I suspect the answer again lies in chicken and egg - not enough narrowboat to make it worthwhile.

 

We are also on the Fens, between Ely and Cambridge at Upware and I have to say that most of the marinas around here don't seem to welcome visitors. I think the attitude of most of the owners would be that they wouldn't bother to respond or listen to a VHF anyway.

 

I agree with you about getting rusty, although I try to use ours as often as possible when we go to the other boat, for bridge opening, tidal info etc. As you say, the course is enjoyable and everybody comes out full of enthusiasm, but unless you have a serious regular use, most people end up forgetting about it.

 

Roger

[Dyad]

I tend to agree Roger.

 

VHF is a little chicken and egg on the inland waterways.

 

The <few> narrowboaters that I have met who use VHF equipment say they did the days course

and really enjoyed it. Not difficult, bit of a giggle and laced with tea and biscuits.

 

The course was around £85, the handhelds can be bought online for under £100 and the licence is free

for life.

 

They came out enthused and enthusiastic. Most seemed to buy handhelds and a lot got a radio callsign for their boat, which they

seemed quite proud of (their very own radio station).

The first thing they wanted to do was call somebody up and talk to them. They struggled to find anybody in range to talk to.

 

For a while, you get a myriad of radio checks (calling stations to get them to confirm that your radio

is working) but this wears thin after a while and professional shore stations like VTS get a bit irritated.

However, there simply aren't enough inland users to keep the momentum going.

 

Lack of practise means that you get rusty and then the radio gets consigned to the cupboard, to only be

brought out when doing the occasional tidal stretch, etc.

 

I've consigned myself to it being a fact of inland waterways life.

 

I use my VHF handheld quite often on inland waterways, just to keep it charged and make sure its working. I also have a fixed set with a mag mount aerial

and use it less often. We are on the Fens and more boats have it than on BW canals.

 

I never understand why inland marinas don't use it more. Its a great way of boats being able to call them up to see if they have any visitors berths, is their pumpout open today and so on. Don't think it costs much for a Ch80 licence for marina base stations - it was about £75.

 

I suspect the answer again lies in chicken and egg - not enough narrowboat to make it worthwhile.

 

So, for those of us that are not enlightened, what can/can't you do with VHF, who uses them, what channels are there, I'm guessing there is an emergency one and whats ch80?

 

Not knowing alot (well nothing actually) about VHF I thought I'd have a google about it. The first site I came to had a hand held set which was switchable to PMR, that sounds like a good idea, what do you reckon?

Edited January 2, 2009 by Dyad

[Nickhlx]

So, for those of us that are not enlightened, what can/can't you do with VHF, who uses them, what channels are there, I'm guessing there is an emergency one and whats ch80?

 

Not knowing alot (well nothing actually) about VHF I thought I'd have a google about it. The first site I came to had a hand held set which was switchable to PMR, that sounds like a good idea, what do you reckon?

 

 

Sounds interesting - what make and model is that set ?

 

Nick