Continuos Cruising

[blodger]

This seems inherently rubbish. The implication of what you are saying is that a boat which has a marina mooring can simply pull out on to the cut, moor up and stay put for a season. This cannot be right in any sense. Once on the cut, any boat - whether marina based, CC, hire or any other must obey the basic tenet of the 14 day / VM rulings which is - travel..moor for a short period... travel again.

 

As far as I can see this simply highlights the old problem of the "no return within..." rules (or lack of or inconsistent application) where it is more difficult to apply them to some categories of boat than other, and therefore this will be the most dangerous part of the rules for ALL boaters.

He did qualify it with adherence to local mooring restrictions and I am sure he would include the 14 day rule.

 

The point is that new stricter mooring restrictions will apply to all, as do current ones, I think is your point?

[Pen n Ink]

Blodger -if so - then I'm sorry - however I don't see the blanket system wide14 day rule as a Local restriction...

 

Strict adherence to time limits for ALL boaters I don't see as a problem at all; where I do see problems evolving is with the no return part; clearly some groups will find this easier to cope with than others; hire boats are likely to end up mooring at the same spots weeks after week simply by geography and so will clearly need some sort of exemption. Boats based a marina are likely to cruise to the same spots on a regular basis - does this mean they need an exemption? What is the difference on this score between a marina based boat and a line based boat? None as far as I can see - so does this mean that these groups need an exemption? Could both of these exemptions be based on " except for within xx miles of their home mooring...?" or something similar.

 

So to CC boats; it would seem reasonable to interpret current guidance (rules?) in such a way that you could implement a SHORT "No Return" policy to avoid the ABABAB shuttling but to implement a no return period longer than say 2 months would not seem to serve any useful purpose other than being punitive.

 

What about trading boats? A CC Trading boat may well wish to ply within a certain area - even along the whole length of a given waterway, for example but for commercial reasons may not wish to leave that waterway. No return within....?

 

For these reasons I am extremely concerned about some proposed guidance I have seen reference to in some areas stating for example "no return within 12 months" and I just happen to think that this is the area we should all be most concerned about. And just for clarification I have absolutely no current axe to grind but plan to be a CC Trading boater as soon as we can get our act in to gear.

[carlt]

Once on the cut, any boat - whether marina based, CC, hire or any other must obey the basic tenet of the 14 day / VM rulings which is - travel..moor for a short period... travel again.

This may be what you think the law should be but it isn't.

 

Whether you like it or not boaters with a home mooring or somewhere they can reasonably keep their boat away from BW waters do not have to adhere to s.17(3)c BWA 1995 but do have to abide by local mooring restrictions (where lawfully imposed).

 

As an example I used to moor in Cropredy and a couple of weeks before the festival I used to move my boat up to Appletree for a month, to free my space up for a festival goer.

 

One year I was visited by the patrol officer and was told to either continue my journey or go back to my mooring as I'd been there over 2 weeks.

 

Despite my explanation for my presence there I was given the "Rules are rules" lecture and instructed to comply.

 

At this point I removed the bow mooring stake, pushed the boat around on the stern line then tied up again having moved 180 degrees and one boat length.

 

I then told her to go back to the office, read s.17 and then come back and tell me if I have complied with my obligations or not and, sure enough, the next day she came back and apologised.

 

I didn't make the rules but if BW/CRT ever tried to abuse their power then I made sure I stuck to the letter of the law,just as they should.

[Pen n Ink]

Carlt

 

Thank you. You've effectively highlighted my point beautifully. What you actually did on that occasion was effectively "move, and return immediately". The fact that your travel was actually only one rotated boat length doesn't matter - it's the "return" part that concerns me if disallowed by future badly thought through regulations.

 

The subtleties of distinction for CC'ers moving from one "area" to another are a completely different discussion IMHO.

[Paul C]

But there isn't a "no return within" restriction......

[Tuscan]

Carlt

 

Thank you. You've effectively highlighted my point beautifully. What you actually did on that occasion was effectively "move, and return immediately". The fact that your travel was actually only one rotated boat length doesn't matter - it's the "return" part that concerns me if disallowed by future badly thought through regulations.

 

The subtleties of distinction for CC'ers moving from one "area" to another are a completely different discussion IMHO.

I suggest you read CRT's interpretation f the " no return" rule and £25 deterrent charge posted on their website under SE mooring consultation report. It explains their thinking. Once they have finished their current mapping of the system into "neighbourhoods" I imagine this will be introduced throughout unless challenged.

 

I'm a little confused, if you have a home mooring you can move up and down the same stretch as long as you move every 14days is that right

I'm wondering because I recently encountered a boat that has a online mooring but chooses to moor continuously about 100m away because they prefer the mooring. I thought this was checky because they are taking up a visitor mooring.but they must be doing this with cart's

Sanction as they have been there a long time

Regards kris

They are still required to move every 14 days

[Paul C]

I'm a little confused, if you have a home mooring you can move up and down the same stretch as long as you move every 14days is that right

 

 

Yes

[carlt]

I'm a little confused, if you have a home mooring you can move up and down the same stretch as long as you move every 14days is that right

Yes, unless other lawfully imposed restrictions are in place.

 

If the boat you encountered is not moving away from the moorings at least every 14 days then he is in breach of the T&Cs of his licence although I am unsure of the sanctions CRT can impose in this case.

 

Personally, when considering boats lingering on VMs, water points or lock landings, if I were CRT I would invoke the obstruction law (section 18), which applies to all vessels. rather than faff about with the overstaying rules and their complexities.

[Pen n Ink]

Yes

 

 

 

But there isn't a "no return within" restriction......

 

 

Until such time as we blindly allow one to happen. This is my point.

[Paul C]

Until such time as we blindly allow one to happen. This is my point.

 

I can't really respond to a suggestion which has been imagined in your mind (or misunderstanding of recent proposed changes). Indeed, C&RT have dismissed "no return within" rules, instead favouring "x days per month" style in their recent proposals in the SE.

 

This is the relevant text from the CRT document http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/3256.pdf:

 

 

We considered two options for the format of the rule:

1. Maximum stay X days per visit and no return within Y days

2. Maximum stay X days per visit and no more than Y days in a Z day period.

The proposals in our original consultation document were based on Option 2, where the maximum stay time in any one visit reflected the longest stay zone in the mooring area. The maximum stay in any one calendar month was either 8 or 14 days, depending on the permitted stay length in any one visit. The feedback from the consultation and discussions at the workshops indicated that we hadn’t made a convincing case for choosing this option, so here is our reasoning.

Using a few examples we explored the implications of similar-sounding rules expressed for each of the two options, in particular looking at how many days’ stay each option would offer over a period of four months and the allowable frequency. Conclusions were as follows:

Option 1

"Maximum stay X days per visit and no return within Y days"

This is probably the easiest to understand, and what is most familiar in the car parking context. The people most disadvantaged by a small value of Y are likely to be in groups ( or (e) as it would rule out frequent very short visits. It also allowed marginally less total time at the site, which in the context of lack of conviction by many respondents of the necessity of introducing new rules, did not seem to be a good idea.

Option 2

Maximum stay X days per visit and no more than Y days in a Z day period

There are two main variants of this – either ‘no more than Y days in a calendar month’ (our preferred option) or ‘no more than Y days in any 28 day period’. We think that the calendar month concept is clearer and simpler and is easier to recall for people who don’t keep detailed cruising logs.

So maximum stay in any one calendar month remains our choice as the most clear and simple to apply. It allows flexibility for boaters, regardless of what type of cruising pattern they follow. Continuous cruisers must, of course, follow the Guidance for Boaters without a Home Mooring.

[Ex- Member]

I can't really respond to a suggestion which has been imagined in your mind (or misunderstanding of recent proposed changes). Indeed, C&RT have dismissed "no return within" rules, instead favouring "x days per month" style in their recent proposals in the SE.

 

This is the relevant text from the CRT document http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/3256.pdf:

 

To be honest I would find any of the above options workable & fair of course depending on a reasonable and fair mapping of neighbourhood/locality. I don't see 28 day or full month no return at all unreasonable or unfair as you could still be as little as 3 to 4 miles away from where you were a month ago and still comply with the rules. Of course assuming fair mapping of neighbourhoods.

 

Under any of those rules I could easily comply with the rules and hold down a full time job even in the town centre of somewhere like Bath which is extremely popular and I'm very familiar with. I'm sure many towns or cities are similar and many a lot less busy than Bath.

 

Also utilising the river and canal I could legitimately stay within 2 miles distance of a job in the town centre which is easy walking distance. I really don't see what boaters are complaining about, what's the hardship in that. Compared to the older rules the proposed newer ones, again assuming a fair mapping of neighbourhoods are the equivalent to a bargain IMO

 

In a previous thread a suggested 7 areas/neighbourhoods between Bath & Bradford on Avon. It will be interesting how many C&RT would calculate, I might have pushed it a bit with 7 although they are all in essence different neighbourhoods. But I'm sure at the very least

Bath

Bathampton

Claverton

Limply Stoke

Avoncliff

B.O.A

[Doodlebug]

Just a suggestion, but if the 50miles isn't enough to properly cruise, I guess you could book into a marina for a month at a time enroute to offset the fact you dont have far to go.

 

You get the best of both worlds then. Especially if in a marina for the winter when cruising isn't as fun.