Attacked by an Angler

[DomX]

Sounds like a very nasty experience and one I hope you never have to go through again. As has been said, get the photos to the police asap and make a statement detailing what happened. They will likely engage with the local fishing fraternity PDQ and find out who this jerk is.

 

Reminds me of an incident I was part of many years ago. I have an 'interesting' military background and was taking part in an exercise using RIB's in the south west. On returning to our RIB at the end-ex, we found some likely lads who'd decided to have a party on the boat and were in the process of trying to nick it. One of the DS politely suggested they leave, but they chose not to and ended up facing 6 heavily armed soldiers who were in no mood for anything that stood between us and some kip. They were 'moved on' and ended up going home very wet and with none of the tools they bought with them for their day out on the beach :-)

 

Dom.

[Grace and Favour]

A particularly unpleasant experience, obviously, John. - And I do hope that this occurrance doesn't cause you too much concern in the future - for such events are incredibly rare, of course.

 

I would inform the police, for whilst they may do little - they should record the potential attack situation, and having a picture of the thug on their records may well help track him down if he attempts intimidation of others in the future.

 

I'm relieved you're OK though!

[mayalld]

A particularly unpleasant experience, obviously, John. - And I do hope that this occurrance doesn't cause you too much concern in the future - for such events are incredibly rare, of course.

 

I would inform the police, for whilst they may do little - they should record the potential attack situation, and having a picture of the thug on their records may well help track him down if he attempts intimidation of others in the future.

 

I'm relieved you're OK though!

 

The "should" is the problem. All too often we see cases of stats driving what is done, and they really won't want to even record a crime that they have no prospect of a conviction on, even if it is a serious offence, so John should INSIST that he is provided with a crime number, and follow up with a complaint if he doesn't get one.

 

There is no question that the offender can be easily identified, but the police will be reluctant, because John's account will be uncorroborated.

 

BTW, the offence here is Disorderly behaviour with intent to cause harrasment, alarm or distress (s4A Public Order Act 1986), and as a weapon was brandished by the offender, the sentencing guideline for a first offence is 12 weeks inside, so make no mistake, this is a serious offence.

[ChimneyChain]

David, you say a weapon was brandish but reality it was only a stick whereas John produce a kitchen knife which is more serious. I think John would have his knuckles rapped and the bloke would get a way Scott free.

 

Darren

[Athy]

, they don't understand philanthropy (if that's the right word!)

Yes, stamp collecting is a mystery to many people.

Seriously though, I am pleased to hear that CWM is OK. He should report the incident to the cops.

[Jerra]

David, you say a weapon was brandish but reality it was only a stick whereas John produce a kitchen knife which is more serious. I think John would have his knuckles rapped and the bloke would get a way Scott free.

 

Darren

If I understand it correctly John is a CCer so the boat is his home. Surely the para below would apply.

 

Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

 

Taken from "Householders the use of force against intruders" at

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html

[mattlad]

If I understand it correctly John is a CCer so the boat is his home. Surely the para below would apply.

 

Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

 

Taken from "Householders the use of force against intruders" at

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html

I'm inclined to agree. If John stayed on the boat I think he would be okay but if he legged it down the towpath after the thug I think that would be looked upon in a very dim light by the police.

 

I agree with others regarding reporting the matter to the police.

[Guest]

I'm inclined to agree. If John stayed on the boat I think he would be okay but if he legged it down the towpath after the thug I think that would be looked upon in a very dim light by the police.

 

I agree with others regarding reporting the matter to the police.

 

I think it's an interesting one this as it could be argued that going down below and staying there and calling for help from there and only reaching for a weapon if the attack continued would have been reasonable, however going down below to get a weapon and returning to confront the attacker could be considered less favourably by the police.

 

Then of course it could reasonably be argued that staying down below on an un~moored drifting boat on a windy day was simply not an option and overall actions taken were in self defence.

 

Of course all this is now with the wonderful benefit of hindsight as none of us really know how we would react if under attack by a knuckle dragger like this.....

[carlt]

I agree with others regarding reporting the matter to the police.

When I reported my incident to the police I was informed that he had denied hitting me with his tiller bar but I had admitted wresting the bar from his grip and throwing it in the canal which could be seen as assault so, despite the stitches in the back of my head and blood soaked clothes, if I pursued the complaint it could be me ending up in trouble.

 

As the boaters who witnessed the incident and assisted me as I wobbled about the towpath had continued their journey and I was in no state to exchange details I was left with "my word against his" so no action would be taken.

[Jerra]

I agree with others regarding reporting the matter to the police.

I certainly agree with reporting it to the police, the angling club, CRT and anybody else I felt would be of use. Actions like the hooligan was performing are only IMO because they have got away with doing what they like too long.

 

If anybody wonders why I say all 3 my thinking goes.

 

1. Police as a crime was committed.

2. Angling club because they need to know what their members are up to or alternatively that such idiots are fishing their waters without being members.

3. CRT because the towpath and canal are ultimately their responsibility and they need to know what sort of trouble occurs and where.

[Maffi]

Twitter usually get results. People are often found using it.

[Tuscan]

I am glad you are OK. Agree police report others may not be as confident as you.

[nicknorman]

When I reported my incident to the police I was informed that he had denied hitting me with his tiller bar but I had admitted wresting the bar from his grip and throwing it in the canal which could be seen as assault so, despite the stitches in the back of my head and blood soaked clothes, if I pursued the complaint it could be me ending up in trouble.

That is their way of dissuading you from creating work for them, they would rather go for a cup of tea. Easy to say I know, but perhaps you should have called their bluff.

[stickleback]

What an appalling thing to happen. I hope you are not too shaken up - and I do agree with suggestions to tell the police.

[Zayna]

I'm so sorry this happened to you, how frightening.

 

There was a fishing match near Middlewich yesterday, is that where it happened, down from the junction where Kings Lock is? Sorry if I'm miles off course.

 

This definitely needs reporting to the police, with photos. That top he's wearing is one of those advertising the energy drink 'Monster'. Quite appropriate.

 

I hope you're ok, and hope that horrible man gets his comeuppance.

[DustyDave]

Sorry to hear about the dreadful experience. I haven't come that close to trouble on the towpath but I had a unsettling evening on the lapworth one night where kids took a can of fuel to a yellow pages and sat round setting fire to it and the grass as they drank cider. I'm sure many others would contact the police but I came away with no harm done to me, my boat and my family. Sometimes it's best to look at the final outcome when deciding whether to take things further. Despite being very shaken you are safe and now have time to consider how you will deal with the situation if it ever happens again. If I was in the same situation I'd be tempted to let it all go (although I'd be worried about going past the same place again). In fact I haven't been back to lapworth since and doubt I'd moor in the same spot again.

 

edit: Also remember that if you contact the police they may end up passing over your personal details to the angler. I've been through this and it's pretty scary, not knowing who might turn up at your house and when.

 

Dave

Edited May 13, 2013 by DustyDave

[Guest]

Nearest I once came was at Clarence Dock in Leeds while moored outside the Armouries.

 

I guy cycling in the dark nearly ran straight into me, veered around me and promptly flung his cycle to the floor ranting about how I was in his way and 'he was effing cycling there' didn't I know.

 

As he came towards me I immediately realised how vulnerable I was if he had been armed with a knife or such. He was between me and the boat and I considered legging it but he looked a lot fitter than I am so I decided just to stand still - he flung his arms forward into my chest but my 17 stone frame didn't move very much, at all, at that I think he thought I might be a bit more of challenge than he originally thought picked up his bike and off he rode.

 

You see and hear of such random attacks leading to serious injury and deaths so I'm pretty glad he legged it.

 

Again with hindsight I wished I had reported it (it likely would have been on the Armouries CCTV) but didn't at the time thinking not that much of it, what I don't know is if the nut job in question did not at a later time or date do the same to someone else and that the consequences for them were different.

[twinpot]

So when is it ok to defend yourself,as i see it John was under attack by a yob who had already attacked him by throwing stones at him and was now on his boat with a weapon in his hand,do you wait till he sticks the stick in your eye socket,or do you get in first.I know what i would do.Isnt anything you hold in your hand to attack someone with classed as a weapon.

John i dont know you but this sort of thing shouldnt happen to anyone,i hope you can put this behind you and carry on enjoying your boating,as someone else said this is probably a one off and will never happen again to you,but that is easy for me to say.

Kind Regards.

Twinpot.

[pquinn]

Sorry to hear about the dreadful experience. I haven't come that close to trouble on the towpath but I had a unsettling evening on the lapworth one night where kids took a can of fuel to a yellow pages and sat round setting fire to it and the grass as they drank cider. I'm sure many others would contact the police but I came away with no harm done to me, my boat and my family. Sometimes it's best to look at the final outcome when deciding whether to take things further. Despite being very shaken you are safe and now have time to consider how you will deal with the situation if it ever happens again. If I was in the same situation I'd be tempted to let it all go (although I'd be worried about going past the same place again). In fact I haven't been back to lapworth since and doubt I'd moor in the same spot again.

 

edit: Also remember that if you contact the police they may end up passing over your personal details to the angler. I've been through this and it's pretty scary, not knowing who might turn up at your house and when.

 

Dave

why would they do that?

 

if it were america it could have ended in a gun battle.

[churchward]

A nasty experience by the sound of it, Carlts too. I am glad John's experience did not descend into further violence either John having to defend himself or the offender pressing home an attack.

 

I have yet to face such out and out aggression from anybody on the canals but have had a few worrying incidents from time to time.

 

We were on the boat the last two weeks and went down onto the Nene from Gayton. On our return we had issues in trying to moor in Northampton with folk paying us much too much attention and climbing on the boat etc. Although it was early evening we moved on up the Branch towards Gayton in the hope that near the motorway there would be less folk about. When we went through the last lock with anti-vandal devices on it (lock 14) we encountered 6 or so men fishing (spinning for Pike) at the lock entrance. They we not happy at moving although I can't tell what they said to me as none seemed to speak English. We again got a lot of worrying attention as we moved through the lock my wife particularly felt intimidated with people invading "her space" as it were. So much so that she went inside with the dog and I finished taking the boat through on my own.

 

Thankfully it is a little way to Lock 13 just before the bridge under the M1 and we stopped there for the night. We were too tired to tackle the Rotherstone Flight and the light was going. It must be too far for the bad guys to walk as in the end we had a quiet night.

[Guest]

So when is it ok to defend yourself,as i see it John was under attack by a yob who had already attacked him by throwing stones at him and was now on his boat with a weapon in his hand,do you wait till he sticks the stick in your eye socket,or do you get in first.I know what i would do.Isnt anything you hold in your hand to attack someone with classed as a weapon.

John i dont know you but this sort of thing shouldnt happen to anyone,i hope you can put this behind you and carry on enjoying your boating,as someone else said this is probably a one off and will never happen again to you,but that is easy for me to say.

Kind Regards.

Twinpot.

 

It is easy to assume that a person would be OK to defend themselves when faced with that type of situation however as some people have found sometimes the police take more interest in the actions of the person defending themselves than they do in the actions and intentions of the aggressor.

 

We have been promised a change in the laws around this but I'm not sure if that has been enacted yet, but as far as i know it remains that your method of defending your self needs to be proportionate in the given circumstances, as I am not a lawyer I could not say how the actions described in the OP would stack up against a test of reasonableness though would certainly hope that it would.

[ditchcrawler]

John, you must must must report this to the police, less in the spirit of wanting this geezer brought to book and more that a word is had with him that it's unacceptable behaviour.

 

The angling will also be controlled by an angling association please complain to them.

 

and CRT who will authorise that association's use of that water.

 

Thank de lordy for camera phones eh?

Not all the canal is controlled by Angling Associations and not all fishermen are members of clubs. I would be surprised if this one was.

[c c]

John, we all wonder what we would do in the circumstance. You are right to defend your self and property. Hope you are recovering from the shock.

Please report it to police, angling club and CRT. whatever the result may be.

Put him on a poster and pin it up around the area, including pubs.

 

WANTED

FOR VOILENT ASSAULT

Edited May 13, 2013 by canalchef

[Hawkmoth]

Sorry John I wasn't intending to lecture you or even suggest that your actions were incorrect, in the heat of the moment, just suggesting a possible course of action for people in a similar situation, in the future.

 

When considering the use of weapons,however, it is worth considering the experience I once had with a boater.

 

I was on the towpath and saw a guy struggling to get his boat to the bank in high winds so I suggested he throw me a rope and I'll help him.

 

He threw me his stern in and I pulled him in to the bank, let go of the line and held the handrail while he could hammer in his stakes and tie off.

 

Unfortunately a gust of wind pushed the boat away from the bank so he hopped onto his back deck and I had the choice of letting go of the handrail and falling into the cut or leaping for his gunwales and, not surprisingly, I chose the latter.

 

At this point things turned strange and he started screaming at me to get off his boat and I explained to him that I had no wish to be there and if he reversed towards the towpath I'd just hop off whereupon he calmed down and agreed this course of action.

 

As I prepared to jump off his back deck I was unaware that he had taken off his brass tiller bar and, just before I jumped, he started beating me around the back of the head with it. I disarmed him and threw the tiller into the cut and managed to get off the boat covered in blood.

 

To this day I don't understand how the incident turned from me helping someone out to a dozen stitches and severe concussion.

It seems that no good deed goes unpunished!

[Ray T]

I know folks have said "I would do this or that in a given situation" but believe me when something happens to you in person any well laid plans go out the window. In stress situations you act almost instinctively.

 

But Mr Smelly is correct beware of "weapons" in case they are used against you. Someone suggested belting the intruder with a mooring chain, but what if he managed to get it off you...........? He now has a ready made weapon to attack you with.

 

Some folks are like me, slightly built, in no way equipped to deal with a young thug.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Ray T