What exactly is a "sloop"

[Chris Pink]

well, if 1790 when the RN began procuring sloops from Bermuda which had no gaffs, is recent, then I would concur.

 

Well considering we do seem to be covering at least 5 or 600 years of sail history then yes, 1790 could be termed 'recent'.

[howardang]

The question about what is a sloop really needs redefining because there have been many sloops built that have no sails, are not barges etc. During WW1 and WW2 and indeed up to the 1960's there were many sloops built which were small warships similar to frigates and larger than corvettes which were used as convoy escorts.

 

Howard

[bizzard]

well, if 1790 when the RN began procuring sloops from Bermuda which had no gaffs, is recent, then I would concur.

As i mentioned i don't have a great deal of interest in warships,however in sailing ship terms 1790 is quite recent.

I should imagine that the luff boltrope of the sail was hoisted and lowered on brails (several large hoops)attached to the boltrope and slid up and down the mast,not particulaly efficient as compared with the much more modern method of the sails halyard hauling the sail up and down with its luff boltrope in an luff track screwed to the mast or built in mast length slot,which makes the sail and mast one integral unit,with no gap for the wind to by-pass through whatever between mast and sail so no bagginess and a much better aerofoil. But as both early and modern have the full leading edge up against the mast both methods would be Bermudan.

The gaff or gunter on an gaff rigged boat is really classed as an mainmast extension,that because of its weight can be brought down quickly in an emergency complete with sail by releasing its main and peak halyards in the event of being overwhelmed by too much wind in say a sudden squall and generally by one person. Lowering a Bermudan sail means grabbing handfulls of sail and yanking it down its track even when the boat has hove- to dead into wind to to take the pressure off.

 

Crossed with Chris Pink there with Quite recent. Lash that man to within an inch of his life.

Edited December 10, 2011 by bizzard

[bizzard]

Hell there's a lull in the responses. I hope everyones not swotting over sailing manuals and googling the subject to try and trip me up,as is usually i think the case when their are long pauses in a technical thread.All my responses are completely off the back of my head,i couldn't be bothered with checking first, so some times i do get things a bit wrong.But in this case i shall remain in the firing line and so try to retaliate with merely noddle and hands on knowledge.

Blow the man down sailor blow the man down,hey ho blow the man down.

 

Take that man aloft and lash im to the top gallant stick and let the gulls peck his eyes out.

Edited December 10, 2011 by bizzard

[Roger Gunkel]

Got called away a few hours ago as I have a big filming job on over the weekend!

 

Yes I agree Bizz, all my posts here are from my own bits of knowledge picked up over the years, so some can get slightly skewed, but generally sound. I must say it's an unusual thread to find on a canal forum, but right up my street, because at the moment I am looking to buy a ketch over the next 12 months and spend some time sailing south for a few months of each year and possibly longer if I can keep the work flowing

 

I have been planning my ideal rig that myself and my wife can handle, and a Ketch or Ketch rigged cutter are top of the list. Reefing from the cockpit will also be an ideal, so I forsee a lot of work taking running gear round the boat, setting up lazy jacks and a whole multitude of other tweaks before we are ready to go.

 

Not really the sort of thing to discuss on this forum though

 

Roger

[bizzard]

Got called away a few hours ago as I have a big filming job on over the weekend!

 

Yes I agree Bizz, all my posts here are from my own bits of knowledge picked up over the years, so some can get slightly skewed, but generally sound. I must say it's an unusual thread to find on a canal forum, but right up my street, because at the moment I am looking to buy a ketch over the next 12 months and spend some time sailing south for a few months of each year and possibly longer if I can keep the work flowing

 

I have been planning my ideal rig that myself and my wife can handle, and a Ketch or Ketch rigged cutter are top of the list. Reefing from the cockpit will also be an ideal, so I forsee a lot of work taking running gear round the boat, setting up lazy jacks and a whole multitude of other tweaks before we are ready to go.

 

Not really the sort of thing to discuss on this forum though

 

Roger

Not its not really appropriate on here,it all just followed on from post 1 as is quite normal. Anyway Roger i hope your plans come to fruition and all goes splendidly for you both. Bizzard.

Edited December 10, 2011 by bizzard

[Derek R.]

(snip)

Sailing a steamship across the Atlantic involved shovelling hundreds of tons in the dark rolling conditions.

 

Having only recently read it due to my daughter doing a project, the TITANIC consumed 834tons of coal each day of passage.

 

Ouch!

 

Fascinating subject is sailing rig, and that many of the 'Windjammers' loaded coal for the trans-Atlantic and Oceanic steamers, returning from Callao with bird guano for fertiliser. Good documentary on the box some years back on that very subject.

 

Personally prefered Alexander Kent's 'Bolitho' character to Hornblower, and Monsarrat's 'Mathew Lawe' in 'The Master Mariner'.

Enthralling stuff. Shame he didn't live to complete 'Darken Ship' in it's final finished form.

[steelaway]

Wikipedia is your friend.....................Sloop

 

Alex

[jelunga]

Hornblower commanded 2 Sloops of war, Atropos and Hotspur, both had two masts.

And "Hornblower and The Atropos" has a very good description of travel on a fly boat on a canal going through locks with no gates whose proper name escapes me for the moment

 

 

 

Edit. Just remembered flash lock

Edited December 11, 2011 by jelunga

[Max Sinclair]

And "Hornblower and The Atropos" has a very good description of travel on a fly boat on a canal going through locks with no gates whose proper name escapes me for the moment

 

 

 

Edit. Just remembered flash lock

Flash Locks had a single dismountable gate, often using removable paddles called rimmers on the Thames. The River Teme had 25 flash locks between the Severn and Leintwardine. How tedius.

[howardang]

Hell there's a lull in the responses. I hope everyones not swotting over sailing manuals and googling the subject to try and trip me up,as is usually i think the case when their are long pauses in a technical thread.All my responses are completely off the back of my head,i couldn't be bothered with checking first, so some times i do get things a bit wrong.But in this case i shall remain in the firing line and so try to retaliate with merely noddle and hands on knowledge.

Blow the man down sailor blow the man down,hey ho blow the man down.

 

Take that man aloft and lash im to the top gallant stick and let the gulls peck his eyes out.

Maybe the thread has come to a natural conclusion seeing that it is not direcly related to Canals

 

You may be right about the swotting up on sailing manuals, although I think there quite a few professional mariners or well read enthusiasts on here who are able to respond off the top of their head without the need for google

 

Cheers

 

Howard

[bizzard]

Maybe the thread has come to a natural conclusion seeing that it is not direcly related to Canals

 

You may be right about the swotting up on sailing manuals, although I think there quite a few professional mariners or well read enthusiasts on here who are able to respond off the top of their head without the need for google

 

Cheers

 

Howard

Yes of course Howard no doubt there are. I think i said that that is what usually happened on any more technical topic.

It is usually quite obvious whether a reply is from a person with genuine hands on knowledge or a person who is just replying with quotes and questions strait from web pages books,manuals and the like,often with good genuine intentions of correcting a certain point,or a point overlooked, but also often with the intention of just trying to trip up the op or a poster,for kicks or boredom,or just to be clever in front of their contemporaries on here, or whatever. Regards Bizzard.

[carlt]

[bizzard]

Good one Carlt,i had to let it buffer up my connections a bit slow at the mo.Although i was never a Beach boys fan,they wrote some good tunes or rather i think Brian Wilson did.

[skpt]

on this occasion it was more a cover than an original song but still fab

[Timleech]

on this occasion it was more a cover than an original song but still fab

 

I actually prefer the version by Van Morrison & Lonnie Donegan on 'the skiffle sessions',

.

 

This is a bit lifeless by comparison.

 

Tim

[DandV]

The ascendancy of the Bermudan rig (otherwise known as a Marconi rig because of its similarity with a radio mast) was the development of the sail track on the mast that allowed sails to be carried on above the cross trees or spreaders. Prior to this development in the early 20th C the mainsails were carried on the mast on hoops that surrounded the mast hence requiring a gaff to carry the sail above the spreaders. Bermudan rigged boats sail better to windward and require less crew effort to hoist sails, hence most gaffers were rerigged in the first half of last century.

 

There is a renaissance in restoring old boats to thier original rig here in NZ, Nothing like taking a 1200sqft main and 250sqft topsail through a gybe without winches in a breeze.

 

Don