Newbie wants to Liveaboard?

[ceryni]

Hi guys, Completely new to the forum and boating. Well, I'm an undergraduate student in Brighton and frankly I'm sick of throwing £400+ a month in rent (+ council tax after I finish Uni etc.) and on TOP of that I pay about £200 quarterly energy bills. That makes it currently around 12k for 2 years just for student accommodation where I'm studying. GONE. All that money, flushed away.

 

My girlfriends parents took me with the family for my first ever canal boat experience and I fell in love instantly. It was crazy hard work with around 20 locks a day in all weather (And I know that this would not be economical or in any way normal for residential boat owners) But I suddenly thought:

 

2 Berth liveaboard canal boat 10-22k (at least half of 2 years accommodation at university) I get to KEEP it, It is MINE, I LIVE on it and I will LOVE IT, and I won't be tied up in tenancy contracts flushing away funds or tied up in a mortage. Right?

 

I just bought the book:

The Liveaboard Guide: Living Afloat on the Inland Waterways for £10 from amazon should help me with the ins and outs of heating, licensing etc. and boat size but I gather between 45-60ft fixed 2 berth 10/6/4 is ideal for a guy or couple to live on?

 

 

Cut to the chase: Is there any way, or anyone, that would be willing to let me stay with them/visit/chat etc. or something along these lines so I can know first hand what I am getting into and/or experience residential boating before I take the plunge? I have 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 or so years to get ready!!!

 

Very exciting reading The Towpath, the free paper I grabbed in Warwick

Any advice, pointers, and especially offers for first hand, in person help/visits etc. are massively appreciated.

 

Thanks!

Tom

[DeanS]

Hi Tom. Welcome to the forum. It is the centre of all canal knowledge...where all your questions will be answered.

Many will tell you that living on a boat is not cheaper than on land, which is debatable, but the choice to live on a boat is mostly due to the different lifestyle it offers.

[IainW]

Hey Tom, i'm in Scotland so afraid can't help you with the visit/chat unless you're on holiday up here! Just wanted to say we had similar rationale in terms of wasting money on rent and living a more fun existence and it works!!! You're going to get a lot of people urging caution and pointing out things that can go wrong but at the end of the day the only way to know if it works is to go for it. The only thing is i think your price estimate for a boat might be a wee bit low, but it is possible to fund a boat through a personal loan which you can pay off in 4/5 years at approximately the same monthly amount as rent. I reckon you're on to a stonking idea, and boats are great for parties :-)

Edited April 15, 2013 by IainW

[Chris Pink]

 

Any advice, pointers, and especially offers for first hand, in person help/visits etc. are massively appreciated.

 

 

 

Thanks!

Tom

One small flaw in your thinking. There's no canals near Brighton. You're welcome to talk to me about boat dwelling, even visit if convenient.

[Dr Bradley]

If you are ever anywhere near me you'll be welcome aboard.

[Ally]

Welcome to the forum! You'll get conflicting advice about some things, there are those that say it's more expensive or the same as house living, but I know I couldn't afford a land home on my income, yet can afford the boat. It all depends on your choices within the realm of living aboard.

Start taking any opportunity to look at boats that you can. Go visit some of the big brokers and see what you get for various amounts of money paid. There is usually room to barter too!

I believe you will find the boating community generally friendly and helpful too.

You will usually get plenty of replies here for any questions too, so ask away!!

Can't fault you for your thinking....but as Chris said...no canals at Brighton!!

[Greedyheron]

There were a lot of liveaboards in Brighton marina up until a couple of years ago, but a lot of them were moved on following some applying for housing benefit and the council noticing that they were there as I recall (i may be wrong but i remember heaving that on the grapevine). Not sure what the situation there is now so may be worth checking it out with a few locals. Looking at some of the forums for coastal boaters may throw up names of a few people you could chat to/visit.

[AidanLincs]

Hello Ceryni (shades of Trudi Canavan?)

 

Welcome to the forum. Stick around and you will be given more advice than you can shake a very large stick at. Some of it will be completely contrary, and you then get to choose which advice you think best fits your situation. There are people from an enormous number of jobs and professions who either live on the cut or who are regular and experienced boaters. I personally know plumbers, electricians, a nurse, a prison officer, a software developer (me!), a boat builder, office staff and a teacher. Between my personal acquaintances and the people on this forum, I think I could get advice on any problem I had.

 

My boat is a 57' trad, and is home to me, two dogs and the office. Some people say that you can live aboard comfortably on less, but I find that 57' is just right for me. Plus, it is still small enough that it will fit comfortably on just about every navigable canal or river in England and Wales. Have a look at Apollo Duck and see what is available.

 

I'm with Ally on costs: while it is entirely possible to spend as much money on living afloat as you would on living on land, the floating option gives you more flexibility in choices of lifestyle. An example: at the end of last year, my business suddenly went very quiet. I was able to seriously cut down on my spending in a way that would not have been possible had I had a mortgage or rent to pay, and I'm still choosing to spend less than I would normally. But don't forget that you have certain expenses that you do not have on land: mooring fees, license fees, etc. And you don't generally have to haul your house off the ground every few years to black its foundations and stop it sinking (although recent weather conditions suggest that that might soon be necessary).

 

That said, choosing to live aboard is something that you should not do just to save money: it is a major lifestyle change. I think that you're approaching the project very sensibly, but then so did I in January 2012: I had anticipated moving aboard in 3 years or so, but bought my boat in June 2012 and moved aboard in September. Love every minute of it.

[bottle]

Ceryni

 

Welcome to the forum, I love your enthusiasm, nothing wrong with that but time for a reality check.

 

That makes it currently around 12k for 2 years just for student accommodation where I'm studying. GONE. All that money, flushed away.

 

That would be virtually the same running cost of a boat.

 

I expect you will be wanting to work after 'uni' so will need to be in one place, a residential mooring would be required (to be legal ) and depending on where in the country and facilities available will vary from about £1,000 to over £6,000 per year. (council tax may or may not be included)

 

Good luck, you have 2 years to do the research, have a look at Apollo Duck as guide to see what is available now in your price range.

[ceryni]

Hello all!!!

 

I'm amazed at the response I have had! What a fantastic community! Even better than the Paintballing forums! (which no doubt I'd have to give up if I lived on a boat!)

 

 

 

 

One small flaw in your thinking. There's no canals near Brighton. You're welcome to talk to me about boat dwelling, even visit if convenient.

Hi Chris, Where are you situated? - nvm, just discovered Kennet and Avon, I'll have to see, everyone seems to live near the Avon or up north!

 

Hello Ceryni (shades of Trudi Canavan?)

YES Ceryni is from Trudi Canavans books well spotted!

 

Can't fault you for your thinking....but as Chris said...no canals at Brighton!!

JUST to clarify, I'm planning on starting near the Norfolk Broads, or there abouts, and not Sussex/Brighton, so anyone near there that's willing to have a visitor let me know!

 

(as a bonus the girlfriend studies at UEA and will probably more suited to finding a steady job around here)

 

 

other than that I can pretty much travel where ever I like.

As for initial costs for the boat being low, someone please reccommend a good starting point for a 40-60' say, Trad?

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

p.s. Pssst! I have savings of around 20k that was left for me as a deposit on a house or such like, If I can buy a boat outright with that sum then I'll be very happy. Also, Widebeams look much more like something I could adapt to living on right away.

Edited April 15, 2013 by ceryni

[Grace and Favour]

Hello all!!!

 

I'm amazed at the response I have had! What a fantastic community! Even better than the Paintballing forums! (which no doubt I'd have to give up if I lived on a boat!)

 

 

 

 

Hi Chris, Where are you situated? - nvm, just discovered Kennet and Avon, I'll have to see, everyone seems to live near the Avon or up north!

 

YES Ceryni is from Trudi Canavans books well spotted!

 

JUST to clarify, I'm planning on starting near the Norfolk Broads, or there abouts, and not Sussex/Brighton, so anyone near there that's willing to have a visitor let me know!

 

(as a bonus the girlfriend studies at UEA and will probably more suited to finding a steady job around here)

 

 

other than that I can pretty much travel where ever I like.

As for initial costs for the boat being low, someone please reccommend a good starting point for a 40-60' say, Trad?

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

p.s. Pssst! I have savings of around 20k that was left for me as a deposit on a house or such like, If I can buy a boat outright with that sum then I'll be very happy. Also, Widebeams look much more like something I could adapt to living on right away.

Here you go! Link to Apollo Duck

[ceryni]

Here you go! Link to Apollo Duck

Why max beam of 2.08m?

 

p.s. Widebeams look really niiiiice!

 

Best one there was 50k!!! Is that realistically the price I'm looking for? Because if it is, sounds like it would be better paying it off after 5 years of so and getting a really nice one for under 70k (some of the ones I've seen)

But then, I don't have a clue what I'm looking for in the engine, batteries, inverter, etc. I just know that I'd much rather have a pump out toilet, neither me or the girlfriend would want a cassette one.

 

 

These look alright! http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=292529

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=290171

 

Obviously It doesn't matter what I find now, I'm not looking at buying until much later, I do though need to know what I NEED and how much that costs (someone give me an example boat?)

So I can add the bits I WANT like a pump out toilet and 240v electrics /TV/washer-dryer

 

I'll ask a few questions, and no you don't have to answer them, just might help! (no, not length and beam size, I gather there are recommendations of over 50 ft, 57 ideally, up to 60. and 2.08m beam (well what If I want a widebeam? we'll get to that later...perhaps I should browse some older forum threads but its like raking Central Park NYC on forums, and the discussions go off topic and I'm not in control bla bla)

 

What kind of engine is ideal for all round use? - charging batteries, getting around, efficient, RELIABLE

 

What "inverter"/electrics do I want to look out for?

 

What difference do brand names make in terms of heating equipment etc when I read an advert?

 

finally, Is it practical to buy a widebeam boat to live on? I gather there are issues when navigating narrower canals...? Is that all? I gather also there must be a serious reason as to why not everyone lives on a barge instead, because they look amazing, so why?

 

Just HOW hard is it to keep warm in winter? I don't see the problem with a gas central heating on a timer at the coldest part of the night? and solid fuel stove for the days when it's REALLY cold?

Edited April 15, 2013 by ceryni

[Grace and Favour]

Why max beam of 2.08m?

 

p.s. Widebeams look really niiiiice!

 

Best one there was 50k!!! Is that realistically the price I'm looking for? Because if it is, sounds like it would be better paying it off after 5 years of so and getting a really nice one for under 70k (some of the ones I've seen)

But then, I don't have a clue what I'm looking for in the engine, batteries, inverter, etc. I just know that I'd much rather have a pump out toilet, neither me or the girlfriend would want a cassette one.

 

 

These look alright! http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=292529

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=290171

Ah - Fine - the restrictive width on many canals is 6'10"

 

Sooooo...

 

IF you wanted a narrowboat - then 6'10" is IT!

 

However, widebeams are great (we're on one at the moment!) - but it does restrict where one can go

 

Waterways map

[ceryni]

Ah - Fine - the restrictive width on many canals is 6'10"

 

Sooooo...

 

IF you wanted a narrowboat - then 6'10" is IT!

 

However, widebeams are great (we're on one at the moment!) - but it does restrict where one can go

 

Waterways map

Thanks!! I just edited my previous post can you re-read? haha lots of emoticons I suppose then according to the map if I started in the Broads, I'd be stuck in the broads because of the narrow canals....

Widebeams just look so.....enchanting....to me

 

Oh, and can you change the name of a boat?

Edited April 15, 2013 by ceryni

[Grace and Favour]

Thanks!! I just edited my previous post can you re-read? haha lots of emoticons I suppose then according to the map if I started in the Broads, I'd be stuck in the broads because of the narrow canals....

Widebeams just look so.....enchanting....to me

OK -

 

You'll find that the vast majority of engines fitted to boats are reliable - - of more concern would be the manner in which an engine has been treated in its life (if buying second-hand), though because they are not stressed, these diesel lumps tend to run quite happily for many many decades.

 

The inverter/electrics you require will be determined by your chosen lifestyle.

 

If you wish to live "simply", (for example - like an Hobbit) - then you can, with simply 12v electrics to run your water pumps and 12v LED lights. Just a couple of leisure batteries, no inverter - job's a goodun.

 

If you wish to use more of (modern) life's luxuries - - TV, sound system, washing machine (extend the list as long as you wish) then you will need an inverter/shore power.

 

You can also extend your power generating capacity with a generator, solar panels, windmill.

 

If you intend to cruise, then you have to create your own electricity.

 

Heating: - there are various options (you can read about them on the forum )

We have a diesel system (Webasto) but NEVER need to use it. We use our little solid fuel stove, (we light in the Autumn, and it runs 24/7 until we let it go out in Spring (yesterday!). - We remain as warm as bugs in a rug - all through winter - without exception - ever. It's much warmer than living in an house.

 

We live on our widebeam - - it's highly practical - - and extremely comfortable

There are restrictions of course, we cannot cross from the North to the South of the country (unless we use a transporter)

That's cool - we're happy where we are.

 

If I want to go on a narrow canal, I'll find another boat-owner to swap with for a time (sort of floating house swap), or hire a boat.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Grace & Favour

[ceryni]

OK - (edited to save space)

All that was great advice thanks!! I'm really excited now, is there a particular price difference between wide beam and narrow?

 

Being cold in winter was one of my biggest concerns after toilets and residential moorings...

Edited April 15, 2013 by ceryni

[Grace and Favour]

All that was great advice thanks!! I'm really excited now, is there a particular price difference between wide beam and narrow?

 

Being cold in winter was one of my biggest concerns after toilets and residential moorings...

Wide beams are dearer to build than a NB, (they simply require more steel & materials.

 

As boats depreciate (and virtually ALL boats depreciate!) the difference lessens - because wide beams have higher maintenance (& mooring) costs.

 

But just look around, look at as many boats as you can, speak to boaters, spend longer looking about than you currently think possible

[Trix]

Your welcome to visit us and have a chat we are on the GU (lower part) we live on a 46ft narrow boat but the good lady wants a wide beam eventually cost wise I found during the winter we spent a lot on coal but generally it was cheaper than living in a house . If you want the luxury of house living on a boat I would say you would be better off I'm a Marina with electric hook up, it's just easier . If you don't have a mooring then be prepared to work a little . I spend my first day off every week filling with water , emptying toilets and moving to the next location to stay within the rules at the end of the day I have to return to the start location to collect my vehicle so I can get to work. But even with all that I love the life style and would not return to land . Be aware though it's not for everyone .

[IanM]

I suppose then according to the map if I started in the Broads, I'd be stuck in the broads because of the narrow canals....

Widebeams just look so.....enchanting....to me

 

Oh, and can you change the name of a boat?

 

You'd also be stuck on the broads because the only way off to the rest of the system is by lorry

[Grace and Favour]

Thanks!!

>>

 

 

Oh, and can you change the name of a boat?

Oh yes!

 

Have a look at the names used here

Edited April 15, 2013 by Grace & Favour

[AidanLincs]

I just know that I'd much rather have a pump out toilet, neither me or the girlfriend would want a cassette one.

 

Be vewwy, vewwy careful, the most innocent of remarks can start a war.

 

(Seriously, there are pros and cons to each type of toilet, but some people are more emotionally attached to their preferred method of waste extraction than others. Listen to the arguments and make your own decision.)

 

You could pick up a very nice 55-60' narrowboat (narrowbeam) for £20-30k. It would be elderly, and might need a bit of cosmetic work doing on it, but if you look after it well, you should be able to sell it for about as much as you paid for it (don't expect to make a profit; this almost certainly will not happen). Might I suggest that you consider buying an older boat to live on for a year or two, before taking the plunge and buying an expensive dreamboat? This has two benefits:

1) by living on board, you will get to know what you want, rather than what you think you want, or what others want; after a couple of years you will be much better informed about style, layout, and whatnot.

2) if it turns out that the boating life is not what you thought it was going to be, you will be less out of pocket than you would be if you bought a newer, more expensive boat with a steeper depreciation curve.

 

(ETA: You can rename a boat, but tradition demands that you take it out of the water, strip naked, cover yourself with lard and dance three times around it shouting "walla walla walla" first. Or it'll sink.)

Edited April 15, 2013 by AidanLincs

[ceryni]

Oh yes!

 

Have a look at the names used here

I love how serenity is one of the top!!!

 

Has anyone got pointers/preference to a marina/sea boat residence? Say if I was in a residential mooring on a fibreglass boat in a marina? easy? cheaper? whatever?

[ceryni]

Be vewwy, vewwy careful, the most innocent of remarks can start a war.

 

(Seriously, there are pros and cons to each type of toilet, but some people are more emotionally attached to their preferred method of waste extraction than others. Listen to the arguments and make your own decision.)

 

You could pick up a very nice 55-60' narrowboat (narrowbeam) for £20-30k. It would be elderly, and might need a bit of cosmetic work doing on it, but if you look after it well, you should be able to sell it for about as much as you paid for it (don't expect to make a profit; this almost certainly will not happen). Might I suggest that you consider buying an older boat to live on for a year or two, before taking the plunge and buying an expensive dreamboat? This has two benefits:

1) by living on board, you will get to know what you want, rather than what you think you want, or what others want; after a couple of years you will be much better informed about style, layout, and whatnot.

2) if it turns out that the boating life is not what you thought it was going to be, you will be less out of pocket than you would be if you bought a newer, more expensive boat with a steeper depreciation curve.

 

(ETA: You can rename a boat, but tradition demands that you take it out of the water, strip naked, cover yourself with lard and dance three times around it shouting "walla walla walla" first. Or it'll sink.)

I'm up for dancing around covered in lurpak. I'm a student after all

 

That's EXACTLY what I had in mind: 20-25k or more, elderly boat that needs some love and care, and I can learn what I want etc.

 

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE DAMN HEAD SIR!

 

I like ye

 

As for cassette vs. pump out.. we dont wanna smell it haha (i gather after some research that I know nothing )

Edited April 16, 2013 by ceryni

[kevinl]

Would that Oscar Wilde was still alive, it would stop him turning in his grave at the piss poor, travesty of a fop this troll is.

Edited April 16, 2013 by kevinl

[ceryni]

I don't see a troll in here, so I think you're mistaken. Get out of my thread, everyone else has been very helpful