The Oil Engine Co, Welshpool.

[pebble]

Hi. Can anyone provide contact details for this business? The phone number on the website is 'unobtainable'. Any info would be appreciated.

[Davidss]

Googling the telephone number you gave found a reference against 'Buffer Books', which also listed a Mobile number.

Rather than just posting that untested, I rang it.

The person who answered agreed that I could post Kevin Whittles current landline number of 01691 830 930.

It will be a couple of hours or more after this post that Kevin will be on that number to answer your call.

 

I did explain I was looking for 'The Oil Engine Co.', and got no response to say they were closed, so expect them to be in business. I did ask about location, and they are in the Welshpool area.

 

Good Luck.

[pebble]

I only joined the forum a few hours ago after spending 3 fantastic days at Crick gently trying to persuade the wifey of the benefits of a 'real' engine in it's own room, (It worked! ) . This was my first post...WOW what a great reply. Thank you very much for your efforts. I will certainly be following up on the information you provided.

[Athy]

Welcome, Pebble, pleased that you rolled in. Of course such engines have benefits: they look and sound "right", many are reliable and economical on fuel, you'll get a warm glow as other boaters salivate at the sight of them, they produce loads of dry heat which makes your engine room a perfect clothes drying room, and you can even dry your trainers on top of them.

 

Unless he's changed, Mr. Whittle at the Oil Engine Co. does not supply many (if any) complete working engines - he will (or would) sell you one for restoration.

 

If you want advice on vintage-style engines, quite a few people on here (including myself) have them in their boats. The forum includes owners of Gardners, Listers, Kelvins, even a Gleniffer or two and also the current makes: Russell Newbery, and Beta (their JD3 Tug engine is actually an American John Deere tractor engine, but dressed up so that its own Mom wouldn't recognise it.) At least one forum member professionally sells Listers both new and old.

 

Tony Redshaw Vintage Diesels specialise in full restoration, especially of Gardners, ald also import Indian-built replicas of the Lister CS2 (a 1950s design) which they upgrade to British standards. See their web site for more info. Walsh's Engineering in Manchester import and restore old Gardners, especially 2LWs (the most often-seen Gardner on the canals).

 

If this is not the kind of info you require, forgive me. If it is, then there are a few leads for you.

 

Oh, one last thing: go for a Gardner. Biased? Moi? Perish the thought.

 

Mike

[NB Alnwick]

Kevin Whittle traded as the "Oil Engine Co" and I am sure he would be able to help but there are many other sources.

 

We have a Kelvin K3 in our boat which is a proper slow running marine engine but, these days, such engines attract a premium price and there are many excellent alternatives. The Lister/Blackstone JP series engines are excellent and good examples are available at rather less than you might have to pay for a Kelvin or a Gardner.

[Skipari]

I visited Mr. Whittle in Llanymynech this winter to collect new cylinders for my K2. There is an email adress as well: kwhittle@btconnect.com

[jake_crew]

Skipari - it might be considered decent to change that email address to "kwhittle at btconnect dot com" to confuse the spam-bots.

[MtB]

Skipari - it might be considered decent to change that email address to "kwhittle at btconnect dot com" to confuse the spam-bots.

 

Surely any spambot worth it's salt will greedily gobble up/translate anything using 'dot' and 'at'.

 

kwhittle whoyouwillfindat btconnect.com or something more imaginative might have a higher chance of escaping, but the damage is probably done by now!

 

MtB

[NB Alnwick]

Assuming that Kevin Whittle is still trading and I have no reason to believe otherwise, I dont think he will be too concerned about his email address being published. Commercial websites are published all over the place and most firms use adequate spam filters and anti-virus/anti-phishing software to provide adequate protection.

 

As previously stated there are many firms dealing in vintage engines and it would be well worth talking to the likes of Tony & Paul Redshaw (http://vintage-diesels.co.uk/), Chris Bennett at Marine Engine Services (www.marineengine.co.uk/‎) and, if you really want a Kelvin it is worth talking to the men at Seaward Engineering, 974 Pollokshaws Road, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, G41 2HA. Telephone: 0141 632 4910

[alan_fincher]

My understanding is that Marine Engine Services no longer take on work relating to old engines, or so Chris-B told me when I sought advice about our Lister.

 

I'm sure if that is no longer the case that Chris will correct me!

[Athy]

Mentioned earlier in the thread I think, Alan - but equally I seem to remember a recent reference to MES having older items, including one or more engines, for sale.

[alan_fincher]

Mentioned earlier in the thread I think, Alan - but equally I seem to remember a recent reference to MES having older items, including one or more engines, for sale.

You could buy a Lister SR2 from them.....

 

Linky

[Athy]

1. That's the one - tempting for the right person. They also have an Indian-built Pettoid for sale at a low price.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Athy

[pebble]

Welcome, Pebble, pleased that you rolled in. Of course such engines have benefits: they look and sound "right", many are reliable and economical on fuel, you'll get a warm glow as other boaters salivate at the sight of them, they produce loads of dry heat which makes your engine room a perfect clothes drying room, and you can even dry your trainers on top of them.

 

Unless he's changed, Mr. Whittle at the Oil Engine Co. does not supply many (if any) complete working engines - he will (or would) sell you one for restoration.

 

If you want advice on vintage-style engines, quite a few people on here (including myself) have them in their boats. The forum includes owners of Gardners, Listers, Kelvins, even a Gleniffer or two and also the current makes: Russell Newbery, and Beta (their JD3 Tug engine is actually an American John Deere tractor engine, but dressed up so that its own Mom wouldn't recognise it.) At least one forum member professionally sells Listers both new and old.

 

Tony Redshaw Vintage Diesels specialise in full restoration, especially of Gardners, ald also import Indian-built replicas of the Lister CS2 (a 1950s design) which they upgrade to British standards. See their web site for more info. Walsh's Engineering in Manchester import and restore old Gardners, especially 2LWs (the most often-seen Gardner on the canals).

 

If this is not the kind of info you require, forgive me. If it is, then there are a few leads for you.

 

Oh, one last thing: go for a Gardner. Biased? Moi? Perish the thought.

 

Mike

 

Hi and thanks for the input Mike. It's all intersting stuff. We are new to all of this and planing to have our boat built this year. I have always had the urge to have a 'Proper' slow running vintage engine pushing it along but she who must be obeyed was having none of it, prefering a modern engine out of sight and mind. I'm very happy to report that she completely changed her mind at Crick last weekend and is a total convert to a vintage engine in its own room.

 

So now we spend a ridiculous amounts of time looking at engines on YouTube saying things like 'Cor that sounds nice' & 'Oooh doesn't that look lovely' without much knowledge of what we are looking at. Our boat will be 58ft-62ft, we want to maximize internal cabin space so I'm thinking that a taller slimmer engine, 1 or 2 cylinder would be good for no better reason than to save space, but I don't really know yet if there is anything that would be suitable. Visible moving bits and a nice 'put put put' noise is the dream engine, a bit nieve I know but you have to start somewhere don't you?

 

I know your a Gardner fan so any sugestions as to suitable engines would be most welcome. I'd like to do any restoration required myself and have rebuilt my old bike engines in the past so I'm not completely green!

 

Stephen

 

Googling the telephone number you gave found a reference against 'Buffer Books', which also listed a Mobile number.

Rather than just posting that untested, I rang it.

The person who answered agreed that I could post Kevin Whittles current landline number of 01691 830 930.

It will be a couple of hours or more after this post that Kevin will be on that number to answer your call.

 

I did explain I was looking for 'The Oil Engine Co.', and got no response to say they were closed, so expect them to be in business. I did ask about location, and they are in the Welshpool area.

 

Good Luck.

[JerryP]

Pebble ,when you have enough posts ,can you message me please .

Edited May 31, 2013 by JerryP

[pebble]

As you can tell I've no idea what I'm doing!

[JerryP]

I think you need 5 posts before you can sent / receive a message ?

[pebble]

Aaaah I see...this will be no 5 then!

[by'eck]

Hi and thanks for the input Mike. It's all intersting stuff. We are new to all of this and planing to have our boat built this year. I have always had the urge to have a 'Proper' slow running vintage engine pushing it along but she who must be obeyed was having none of it, prefering a modern engine out of sight and mind. I'm very happy to report that she completely changed her mind at Crick last weekend and is a total convert to a vintage engine in its own room.

 

So now we spend a ridiculous amounts of time looking at engines on YouTube saying things like 'Cor that sounds nice' & 'Oooh doesn't that look lovely' without much knowledge of what we are looking at. Our boat will be 58ft-62ft, we want to maximize internal cabin space so I'm thinking that a taller slimmer engine, 1 or 2 cylinder would be good for no better reason than to save space, but I don't really know yet if there is anything that would be suitable. Visible moving bits and a nice 'put put put' noise is the dream engine, a bit nieve I know but you have to start somewhere don't you?

 

I know your a Gardner fan so any sugestions as to suitable engines would be most welcome. I'd like to do any restoration required myself and have rebuilt my old bike engines in the past so I'm not completely green!

 

Stephen

 

Hi Stephen

 

With your first boat it might be worth not considering anything too radical vintage engine wise, particularly given rarity of spare parts on some makes/models.

 

Most popular and cheapest are the smaller air cooled Listers built in the 60's & 70's with many having water-cooled counterparts. In terms of power, HR, HA, ST & SR models in descending order are the most popular. With the smaller models the three cylinder versions will probably be needed to get adequate power and they may not justify their own engine room.

 

Of the slower revving larger capacity models the Gardner 2LW seems popular and well liked, although not cheap. There is a rebuilt one on eBay at the moment to give you some idea of price, and spares availability doesn't seem too bad at the moment, particularly as this model was in production until 1995.

 

Lister JP2's are equally expensive but have some parts availability and an external flywheel. MPS have a rebuilt one for sale as well as the three cylinder models. The popular bulletproof modern PRM gearbox fitted to either removes any transmission worries regarding reliability and spares.

 

Ironically three cylinder versions of both above models are more readily available and therefore cheaper although you will need as much as an extra foot in the engine room. The sound is more of an even rumble rather than the almost single cylinder note from a 180° crank twin.

 

Ruston Hornsby, Russell Newberry, Dorman, National and Armstrong Siddeley are not uncommon and the big Kelvins and Gleniffers are seen but probably not so practical given size and weight.

 

Reference to this marine engine listing may help with your choice.

 

ETA: Forgot to mention this thread listing vintage diesels for auction on eBay at the moment.

Edited May 31, 2013 by by'eck

[rjasmith]

Just prompted by Richard (by'eck)'s link to Michael Clark's website (users.skynet.be) above which has that list of vintage engines on it.

 

I don't know whether Stephen (pebble) has started to think about the dreaded Recreational Craft Directive yet (I presume he will be going for a new boat - not a problem if it's a second hand one with an existing vintage engine installation) but.....

 

There is a new version of the RCD being drafted in Brussels currently and I have corresponded with Michael about its possible impact on vintage engines in new boats.

 

As some folks on here may know, when the RCD was last revised in 2003 to bring in new rules for engine exhaust emissions, Michael lobbied the EU commission and succeeded in getting a concession that allowed the continued installation of engines that couldn't meet the RCD requirements, provided it could be shown that said engine was "first placed on the market" prior to Jan 2004.

 

The new RCD is aiming to further tighten the exhaust emission requirements in new boat engines and when I last heard from Michael he was not at all confident that his 2003 concession would survive in the new Directive.

 

It could mean that putting a vintage engine in a new boat intended to be compliant with the RCD

(ie not home fitted out and kept by the home builder for 5 years) could be illegal after the new RCD is brought into operation.

 

Don't panic but I've noticed that not many people seem to know this!!

 

Richard

 

[JerryP]

If the engine is supplied by the customer and NOT the boat builder ,it isn't a problem (according to by local boat builder)

[rjasmith]

If the engine is supplied by the customer and NOT the boat builder ,it isn't a problem (according to by local boat builder)

 

Under the present 2003 amendment of the RCD, a vintage engine can be declared exempt from the exhaust emission requirements when it is fitted in a new boat provided it can be shown to have been "first placed on the EU Market" prior to Jan 2005 (obviously that will be true for a vintage engine!)

 

This was a concession obtained by Michael Clarke in his negotiations with the EU Commissioners in Brussels during the drafting of the 2003 amendment. Michael seems to have had difficulty in getting this same concept carried forward into the new 2013 amendment as I understand it. I gather the British rapporteur has not been too helpful this time and he has had little support from the British boat building industry. In 2003 he got a great deal of support but not this time sadly.

 

Therefore the "Declaration of Exemption" idea for the engine may not work after the adoption of the 2013 RCD amendment which I believe may be sometime in 2017.

 

This is based on correspondence I had with Michael about 6 months ago and may have changed since.

 

I'd not heard of the "get out" you have heard of where the boat builder fits the owner's engine. Presumably the boat builder completes the boat and DoC's it without the engine, "sells" it to the owner who then pays for his engine to be fitted as a separate exercise. This would be equivalent to the handover of a "part complete boat" and would make the owner take on the role of boat builder. That would be fine but the owner must then not sell the boat for five years or say it complies with the RCD.

 

The RCD is great fun!

 

Richard

[steamraiser2]

Most of our engines are supplied to the owner , not the boatyard / builder. We supply a letter indicating the required EU provenance if the owner wants one. Incidentally most of the EU has no derogation and just choose to ignore it. The Netherlands old engine business is alive and kicking. The view over there is that the regulation is for production factory built boats not privately sponsored one offs.

[rjasmith]

Most of our engines are supplied to the owner , not the boatyard / builder. We supply a letter indicating the required EU provenance if the owner wants one. Incidentally most of the EU has no derogation and just choose to ignore it. The Netherlands old engine business is alive and kicking. The view over there is that the regulation is for production factory built boats not privately sponsored one offs.

 

Thats very interesting!

 

Of course as I said above, if the owner decides to fit an old (presumably non RCD compliant) engine to a part complete boat sold to him by a boat builder, thats absolutely fine so long as the boat is kept by the owner and not sold for five years.

 

Under the present (2003 RCD), the concession obtained by Michael Clarke allows you to declare such an engine to be exempt and therefore build the boat fully to the RCD in all other aspects.

 

I'm intrigued by your last sentence, are you saying that in the Netherlands a "privately built one off" boat can be sold legally within the first five years without being compliant with the RCD?

 

That isn't what the RYA, BMF, Trading Standards etc tell us over here!!

 

Richard

[steamraiser2]

Typical of us Brits. We zealously apply all the rules when no one else does. Clearly the renewal of the derogation would be the best option as it makes life easier for everyone. Perhaps we should all write to our MPs and MEPs and get the status quo maintained. I have been told that the Dutch have an exemption for domestically produced vintage engines, such as the old semi diesel Kromhouts, under the "national heritage" catch all banner.

 

Where it is clearly nonsense is when the eco warriors are emptying barns of the old Listers and using them for power generation. No rules there then!