Some advice on how to start a LIster Petter TS2 (please)

[Lockie Junior]

Hi all,

 

This is my first time I've created a new topic, so please bear with me.

 

Anyway, as part of my duties at my sea cadet unit, I've been told to start and run the motorboat. This motorboat has a Lister Petter TS2 in it which has to be hand cranked and is (apparently) a complete ball-ache to start (not been started for weeks and has never been run hard in it's life). Normally I would ask another staff member for advice but he's off ill.

 

So has anyone got any suggestions or tips for hand cranking it (never done it before, but it does have anti-kickback) and/or ways to make it start easier for the future?

 

Thanks,

Lockie.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Lockie Junior

[MtB]

Ok as no-one else seems to have an answer, I'll kick off.

 

I know nuffin about Listers but my experience of old diesels which are reluctant to start is that they respond well amd start when the flame of a blowlamp is pointed into the air inlet whilst cracking them over.

 

Best not to try this on an engine with a paper or oil bath air filter fitted though!

 

Other than that, spray some EzyStart into the inlet filter. People often have the horrors at using EzyStart saying the engine gets addicted. I think it's the owner that gets addicted actually, as they finally find an easy way to start a reluctant engine!

 

I assume you have obtained a copy of the engine instructions and tried following the starting procedure stated by Lister?

 

 

MtB

[alan_fincher]

If it has to be hand cranked to start, there must be levers to "decompress" it by holding valves open, (called decompression levers). These sit on the cylinder heads, and should be obvious.

Can you confirm your engine has these, and are they individual levers on top of each cylinder that can be thrown one at a time, or are they linked by a joining rod, such that both can only be moved at the same time as each other.

 

I don't know the engine you mention, but some Listers have cold start arrangements that involve fiddling with a control for the purpose. If your engine expects such an action and you don't know the details, it will not help your chances, so MTB is correct, you really need to read a manual, unless someone here knows specifics.

 

I used to try hand starting the Lister in "Sickle" until I learnt that attempts to do so have previously broken multiple wrists on multiple people. You do need to be aware they can kick back. Try and have your fingers and thumbs all on the same side of the handle - if you hold it the more intuitive way with "thumbs trailing" they might get damaged if it doesn't go well.

 

These risks may apply less to a "TS" engine, I don't know, but I now have a healthy respect for what an "HA" is apparently capable of!

[Lockie Junior]

Thanks for the replies

 

I've not actually tried starting it yet, that's tomorrow job. I was just wondering if any one had any tips for hand starting the thing.

 

The blowlamp is not an option (alas) because its in a 16ft grp boat with a wooden engine cover that cannot be removed to get to the air intake. I'll bear easy start in mind, but only as a last resort.

 

Alan, the engine has individual de-compressors and I did have a brief look a the manual and it said the cold start consisted of pouring some engine oil into chambers next to the cylinders. The engine has a raised hand start with non-kickback fitted.

 

Should I just give it a fistful of throttle and go from there, or might I flood it?

 

Thanks,

Lockie.

[Tony Brooks]

snip

 

So has anyone got any suggestions or tips for hand cranking it (never done it before, but it does have anti-kickback) and/or ways to make it start easier for the future?

 

Thanks,

Lockie.

 

Heat up the intake is a good idea and I would want an assistant to push the decompressors back to run. It is far easier to keep cranking if someone else flicks them off. I would have them put one to run while keeping cranking and when you are getting help from that cylinder do the other one.

 

Unless you know there is some form of anti-kick back device I would avoid Easystart. It has a nasty habit of stopping pistons dead unless you follow the instructions and are sparing.

 

Engines do not get addicted to it but the shock waves it can produce at the wrong time in the cycle can snap rings and piston lands. It can also remove a degree of lubricant from the bore. Those things together with the fact it is usually used on worn engines that get even more worn is what gives rise to the addiction myth.

[Lockie Junior]

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks for the advice. As I said above a blowtorch isn't really an option and there are no leccy supplies (its on a buoy in the middle of a lake). I'll get someone to give me a hand and if it still doesn't go then I'll come back next week with some easy start.

 

I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill as I know the staff member who told me its a pig to start does struggle to start it anyway (bad back or something).

 

Regards,

Lockie.

[alan_fincher]

As Tony says, if two of you can get in the right places, then one to crank hard, and the other one to throw the levers at the point the "cranker" instructs them to is more likely to succeed than trying to do both jobs yourself.

[Lockie Junior]

Right, thanks for that Alan. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow and see what's what.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

G'night,

Lockie.

[David Mack]

I'm not familiar with the TS2 but my experience of hand start diesels is that it is better if you give it a good few turns at low speed with the decompressors on before trying to start it. It gets the oil moving, and the fuel you pump into the cylinders will increase the compression ratio for easier starting. You should also be able to hear the creak of the injectors - 2 creaks for 2 full turns of the crankshaft.

[jelunga]

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks for the advice. As I said above a blowtorch isn't really an option and there are no leccy supplies (its on a buoy in the middle of a lake). I'll get someone to give me a hand and if it still doesn't go then I'll come back next week with some easy start.

 

I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill as I know the staff member who told me its a pig to start does struggle to start it anyway (bad back or something).

 

Regards,

Lockie.

If this is an air cooled two cylinder engine as fitted to mature lifeboats, I used to start one daily for a year in 1971 in temperatures from -20deg C to +30 deg C. I was the junior Marine Engineer on a ship and everybody hated this job especially since the lifeboat was in the davits and the ship was at sea rolling like a goodun.

Give me a ring at Gunthorpe today and we can talk about it.

[Lockie Junior]

Morning all,

 

Thanks for all the advice, lots more tips than I was expecting or hoping for.

 

Going on peoples advice my current plan is: to try and get someone to help me, to give it a dozen or so turns to get the oil moving, then turn like hell and get the other person to drop the de-compressors. If this fails then I'll get some easy start and try again next week.

 

I think the main issue with the engine is that it isn't started often and never has chance to warm up or work hard. A typical evenings run goes like so: buoy to jetty, stop engine. Start engine, twice round mid-section of the lake, back to jetty, stop engine. 1hr later start engine and return to buoy. All this on not much above tickover.

This will all be changed and I am determined to make sure that it gets some good hard runs "to blow the soot out of it Chief".

 

Thanks again,

Lockie.

[RLWP]

Don't forget to do the oil in the cups bit as well. It will lubricate the rings, improve the ring sealing and slightly up the compression. All these steps will help you

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

If this is an air cooled two cylinder engine as fitted to mature lifeboats, I used to start one daily for a year in 1971 in temperatures from -20deg C to +30 deg C. I was the junior Marine Engineer on a ship and everybody hated this job especially since the lifeboat was in the davits and the ship was at sea rolling like a goodun.

Give me a ring at Gunthorpe today and we can talk about it.

Whilst you may well be able to offer some generic advice, this is not going to be the same engine type as you are familiar with from 1971, because the first production date for the TS2, according to LIster Oracle Chris Bennett's list is 1983.

 

This engine if a TS2 is no more than 30 yeras old, and may well be a whole lot newer.

[Lockie Junior]

Generic advice would still have been appreciated Alan, I can never have to much info. Anyway, looks like rain may stop play (can't take cadets boating if cold and wet ).

 

Like I said, it may not be as difficult as my colleague said, I'll keep you posted.

 

Regards,

Lockie.

[Lockie Junior]

Morning all,

 

Just to finish this topic off, I don't know what the staff were complaining about. I gave it a dozen turns to get the oil moving and then it started first drop of the de-compressors. Still got it ringing in my ears though as was sat 4ft away from it for 1 1/2hrs (no silencer or acoustic insulation, 16ft open boat).

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice,

Lockie.

[jelunga]

Morning all,

 

Just to finish this topic off, I don't know what the staff were complaining about. I gave it a dozen turns to get the oil moving and then it started first drop of the de-compressors. Still got it ringing in my ears though as was sat 4ft away from it for 1 1/2hrs (no silencer or acoustic insulation, 16ft open boat).

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice,

Lockie.

Oh good. Easy start is the spawn if the devil. Wrecked my Johnson 2T outboard but then maybe the crankshaft seals were knackered before which meant using easy start anyway.