Timeshare and how to live with it

[Ron]

Some years ago we were talked into buying a Timeshare by a slick marketing company. Thankfully we went for a Narrowboat week, but for the sake of economy had bought a week that nobody would actually want to use thinking we could exchange it for other holidays.

 

In the cold light of day we had spent a lot of money on a week we were never likely to use.

We had very few exchange options (as it's exchange value was low ) and we were stuck paying the maintentance fees for 70 years.

The thing was unsaleable.

( I think the system has improved since then )

 

After a lot of hair pulling we part exchanged the week via the manging company for an August week which we could both use and rent out in other years.

 

The marketing of the weeks we did not use, was sorted by a website, on which we now advertise not only our own weeks bout 30 - 40 others as well (advertising just a couple of weeks was not going to work )

 

We now own 4 weeks out of Barton Turns, which means we are not restricted to single week voyages, putting places like Tewkesbury in range (though that was hard work over two weeks ), however down the Seven and up the Avon was delightful.

 

I do get a lot of correspondence of the " I've been been ripped off variety " from other people who similarly bought timeshares, which i sympathise with as that was our initial position and some of the marketing companies were charging silly prices. However even if you did pay £9000 for an August week you can get your money back by renting out - if you can get the marketing sorted.

 

If you find yourself with an unusable and unsaleable week try going back to the marketing company and try upgrading to something rentable and saleable.

August weeks are best May to Sept sell, Xmas though always marketed as a popular week is difficult to rent out. ( My experiences only )

 

If you are thinking of buying a Timeshare week on a Narrowboat I would suggest £4000 max for an 8 berth in August and less for any other time of year, or anything smaller.

 

The exchange schemes are the other option, but cost things out carefully.

One year we took a holiday in GOA we arranged the hotel locally and it cost us £240 for a family of 4 in two rooms, swimming pool ...

If we had used RCI the exchange fees at that time would have been £280 (£140 a week ) on top of which we had paid about £600 maintenance on the timeshare weeks (about £3oo per week at that time ) so total cost for exchange = £880.

 

The alternative of renting out two weeks as Narrowboat holidays left us with £800 profit over maintenance fees giving us £560 towards the cost of the flights ( about £2400 at that time ) after the hotel had been paid for

 

I am sure there are some destinations where the exchange option is very viable, but this was not one of them.

 

We have actually enjoyed our weeks out of Barton Turns tremendously and it's doubtful we could have afforded the holidays we have been able to take by other means, but you do need to manage timeshares with a little thought.

 

I hope this is useful to someone.

 

Ron

Edited March 16, 2007 by Ron

[jgm]

We had 3 weeks timeshare in Australia (now changed to points). I have an exchange next year for a 6 berth narrowboat out of Barton Turns for 3 weeks from June 21 2008 - cost A$660 (about 250 pounds) per week . On top of that we pay around A$176 per year for our membership.

 

We usually have an overseas holiday every 2nd year on average. I am a mad keen skier, so a lot of our holidays are to ski resorts in high season. The cost is generally around A$400 per week. The great majority of the exchanges are at least 2 bedrooms usually with a couch wich also makes up into another double bed, usually 2 bathrooms & full kitchen.

 

We did a tour of Wales in 2004 (+1 is a member of a Welsh Ladies Choir), and rounded it out with a week on the Isle of Wight, followed by a week on a narrowboat out of Sawley Marina & then a week in Austria at Bad Gastein.

 

We have had timeshare for just on 25 years for which we paid around A$6000 per week & they were all floating weeks (RCI white). We also use RCI bonus weeks occasionally which can be very good value. When we owned weeks, we would quite often bank one year's weeks to extend our options. You can usually bank up to 2 years in advance which allows you to have 4 weeks available at once (one from last year, one from this year, & one each from the next 2 years). Points work similarly, but you are not limited to a number of weeks - as long as you have sufficient points, you can exchange - unused points expire after I think 3 years with our club (Interchange), and we still have access to RCI resorts as well.

Edited March 16, 2007 by jgm

[carlt]

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. But sharing my boat would feel a bit like sharing swmbo, only more personal.

[fuzzyduck]

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. But sharing my boat would feel a bit like sharing swmbo, only more personal.

 

She said you didn't mind

[Ron]

She said you didn't mind

 

Not everyone can afford to own a whole boat all the time and some people actually share things because they enjoy the experince of it, or perhaps feel it a more responible approach to ownership.

 

Of course I accept this is not to everyone's taste.

 

I do not actually think our original purchase of a Narrowboat Timeshare was a wise or happy one under the inital terms of that purchase, however we have worked through the problems and found a reasonable way forward.

I posted the topic in case there were other's who might learn by our experience.

 

Personally I don't want to live aboard a Narrowboat all the time and Southampton has a certain shortage of canals.

This arrangement gives us the flexibility to use a boat for holidays without being overburdened by costs or maintenance.

 

If I were single, without children and the Southampton canal had not been filled in I might well feel differently.

Maybe we will retire to a boat on the Hamble.

[fuzzyduck]

Ron

 

while personally I'm in agreement with Carl. (my boat is my boat, is my boat)

 

timeshare seems to be a way of owning a boat thats's bigger than you can afford, at realistic prices. can't halp to think tho that owning 100% of a 30 footer is better than owning 10% of a 70 footer tho.

[Ron]

Ron

 

while personally I'm in agreement with Carl. (my boat is my boat, is my boat)

 

timeshare seems to be a way of owning a boat thats's bigger than you can afford, at realistic prices. can't halp to think tho that owning 100% of a 30 footer is better than owning 10% of a 70 footer tho.

 

I could not afford to own a 30 footer and even if I could ( and we have played with the idea ) I would not be able to use it enough to justify full ownership.

 

The sacrifices we would have to make to do that would cut too heavily into other budgets such as renovating the house ( a major project in itself ).

 

Currently the whole family can have some experience of Narrowboats without compromising other concerns or commitments.

 

I would also be unhappy in principal owning a complete boat that I only used say six weeks a year, both from the point of view of economics and also personal idealism.

 

I can see no better fate for a possesion than it be worn out in good use, even if it does involve the risks of sharing. (Though I am not quite so idealistic that I don't make exceptions to this )

 

All those unused boats falling into neglect while cluttering up the moorings are a little depressing, though I suppose if they pay their licience fees they at least contibute somthing to the Waterways.

Edited March 16, 2007 by Ron

[Nic]

Don't forget there is boat share and time share narrowboats. The Time shares on narrowboats are usually to a fleet, essentially its like hiring a boat as you can pick a base, but reduced costs to standard hiring (they are really akin to timeshare holiday clubs). Boat shares are with a finite number of people.

 

I love the equation 100% of 30ft = 10% of 70ft! For the cost of a 10% you're more likely to get a 10ft dayboat. If you've a family, then a small boat where the rest of the family have day visiting rights might not go down as well. Many boat share owners find it a way of getting ownership of part of a boat, either because they can't afford a boat, or because they can't justify the expenditure. Some share owners go on to buy their own boat later, so its a stepping stone. The cost of hiring can mean that going multiple weeks every year is quite costly.

[RobinR]

An even lower cost (and environmental impact) option is shared ownership and with one such owner recently selling two consecutive March weeks and a November week in a 57 ft boat built in 2003 at £250 each (i.e. £750 for all 3 as can be seen here!), very affordable. We purchased a share of an older boat in a private scheme for £2500 plus £35 per month running contribution giving up to 4 weeks per year. The costs are minimised by self maintaince within the group. Not everyone's choice but certainly a much lower "boat footprint" on the network with at least some input to the "style and content" of the boat. I have noticed Ownerships prices really falling recently - as little as £1000 for a 4-berth older boat (sold very quickly). This is another example of an affordable private scheme and there are others.

[Nic]

You obviously get to know all your other owners and who is good at what too. A lower "Boat footprint" is definitely good - so many boats I see moored unused that probably get an outing once a year.

[petro]

Reading this makes me realise how fortunate I was that I bought a syndicate share with Challenger who I stayed with for 11 years until we bought our own boat. Surely if people are keen boaters timeshare is quite the wrong way of getting afloat and it is so complex.

 

Some years ago we were talked into buying a Timeshare by a slick marketing company. Thankfully we went for a Narrowboat week, but for the sake of economy had bought a week that nobody would actually want to use thinking we could exchange it for other holidays.

 

In the cold light of day we had spent a lot of money on a week we were never likely to use.

We had very few exchange options (as it's exchange value was low ) and we were stuck paying the maintentance fees for 70 years.

The thing was unsaleable.

( I think the system has improved since then )

 

After a lot of hair pulling we part exchanged the week via the manging company for an August week which we could both use and rent out in other years.

 

The marketing of the weeks we did not use, was sorted by a website, on which we now advertise not only our own weeks bout 30 - 40 others as well (advertising just a couple of weeks was not going to work )

 

We now own 4 weeks out of Barton Turns, which means we are not restricted to single week voyages, putting places like Tewkesbury in range (though that was hard work over two weeks ), however down the Seven and up the Avon was delightful.

 

I do get a lot of correspondence of the " I've been been ripped off variety " from other people who similarly bought timeshares, which i sympathise with as that was our initial position and some of the marketing companies were charging silly prices. However even if you did pay £9000 for an August week you can get your money back by renting out - if you can get the marketing sorted.

 

If you find yourself with an unusable and unsaleable week try going back to the marketing company and try upgrading to something rentable and saleable.

August weeks are best May to Sept sell, Xmas though always marketed as a popular week is difficult to rent out. ( My experiences only )

 

If you are thinking of buying a Timeshare week on a Narrowboat I would suggest £4000 max for an 8 berth in August and less for any other time of year, or anything smaller.

 

The exchange schemes are the other option, but cost things out carefully.

One year we took a holiday in GOA we arranged the hotel locally and it cost us £240 for a family of 4 in two rooms, swimming pool ...

If we had used RCI the exchange fees at that time would have been £280 (£140 a week ) on top of which we had paid about £600 maintenance on the timeshare weeks (about £3oo per week at that time ) so total cost for exchange = £880.

 

The alternative of renting out two weeks as Narrowboat holidays left us with £800 profit over maintenance fees giving us £560 towards the cost of the flights ( about £2400 at that time ) after the hotel had been paid for

 

I am sure there are some destinations where the exchange option is very viable, but this was not one of them.

 

We have actually enjoyed our weeks out of Barton Turns tremendously and it's doubtful we could have afforded the holidays we have been able to take by other means, but you do need to manage timeshares with a little thought.

 

I hope this is useful to someone.

 

Ron

[Nic]

Reading this makes me realise how fortunate I was that I bought a syndicate share with Challenger who I stayed with for 11 years until we bought our own boat. Surely if people are keen boaters timeshare is quite the wrong way of getting afloat and it is so complex.

If you are a keen boater then shared ownership gives you a stake in a boat and able to holiday on it. If you take boating holidays but only spend a single week a year, a timeshare gives you a cheap option for that week. Some people buy boat time shares purely to trade for other weeks in resorts abroad. If they can't afford to go any one year then they can take the week on the boat. Obviously not keen boaters though.

[anhar]

If you are a keen boater then shared ownership gives you a stake in a boat and able to holiday on it. If you take boating holidays but only spend a single week a year, a timeshare gives you a cheap option for that week. Some people buy boat time shares purely to trade for other weeks in resorts abroad. If they can't afford to go any one year then they can take the week on the boat. Obviously not keen boaters though.

As the earlier message indicated timeshare and shared ownerships etc. stink. It's no accident that timeshares have become notorious for crooks. They trap you into a commitment, stripping flexibility away in return for some initial plus regular payments over which you have little or no control, something that is wholly undesirable. Why trap yourself in this way? I can't see it at all

 

In my view hire is infinitely preferable for anyone who just wants a boat for a short break and can't afford or just doesn't want the responsibility of owning a boat.

 

regards

Steve

[howardang]

As the earlier message indicated timeshare and shared ownerships etc. stink. It's no accident that timeshares have become notorious for crooks. They trap you into a commitment, stripping flexibility away in return for some initial plus regular payments over which you have little or no control, something that is wholly undesirable. Why trap yourself in this way? I can't see it at all

 

In my view hire is infinitely preferable for anyone who just wants a boat for a short break and can't afford or just doesn't want the responsibility of owning a boat.

 

regards

Steve

Hi Steve,

I can't see any earlier posting which indicates that shared ownership "stinks".

Time share is mentioned in this context but as you are aware, shared ownerships is a completely different concept. There are many reasons why people prefer to take the shared ownership option - I have done this myself for the last 9 years or so -and in my case I can vouch for the fact that it is a good alternative to boat ownership, especially for someone who is working and therefore cannot justify having an expensive asset sitting idly on a mooring somewhere. I chose this route evn though i could afford to buy a boat outright because I didn't want to tie up a large lump of capital.

 

Howard Anguish

[kawaton]

As the earlier message indicated timeshare and shared ownerships etc. stink.

 

In my view hire is infinitely preferable for anyone who just wants a boat for a short break and can't afford or just doesn't want the responsibility of owning a boat.

 

regards

Steve

 

I have spent close on £10k hiring boats over the last 5 years.

That 10k isnt enough to purchase a £25k boat.......+ costs.

That 10k would have bought me a £5k share with an ownerships boat, and covered all costs over the 5 years.

I could've then sold my share and recouped most of the intial 5k....say £3500.

With ownerships i would have had 3-4 weeks a year cruising, thats 15-20 weeks over 5 years, compared to the 12 i have had in the last 5 years hiring

 

So if we are comparing hiring to owning a share...double the time for less the money......

 

For me....

 

if you can afford 25k+ and have funds to cover approx £200/month in costs.....buy a boat.

I cannot afford that amount, but want more time to cruise a boat. So owning a share would work out cheaper.

 

just to clarify.....

 

If i hired for one week in march, two weeks in August, and one week in October for 5 years with Anglo-welsh...i would spend roughly £15000.....

 

I have seen a share on a far better boat for £4000. With £70/month costs. Total spend = £8200, and i can recoup some costs when i sell..

 

There is sense in shared ownerships......................(timeshare is different)

Edited April 26, 2007 by kawaton

[anhar]

Hi Steve,

I can't see any earlier posting which indicates that shared ownership "stinks".

Time share is mentioned in this context but as you are aware, shared ownerships is a completely different concept. There are many reasons why people prefer to take the shared ownership option - I have done this myself for the last 9 years or so -and in my case I can vouch for the fact that it is a good alternative to boat ownership, especially for someone who is working and therefore cannot justify having an expensive asset sitting idly on a mooring somewhere. I chose this route evn though i could afford to buy a boat outright because I didn't want to tie up a large lump of capital.

 

Howard Anguish

You're right of course Howard, it was only timeshares that "stink" (my word) as the earlier message indicated. However I personally dislike intensely the related concept of shared ownership.

 

The idea of committing oneself to a substantial initial payment and regular contributions thereafter fills me with dread compared with the absolute freedom of hire. So what if it costs more over a long period, it's well worth it for the freedom in my opinion. If I wanted only a couple weeks each year on a boat I would hire. I wouldn't want any commitment or involvement with schemes that incorporate other people interfering with your liberty, even if it's cheaper. Hire gives you complete freedom to go where you want, when you want and no obligations other than the actual cost of each trip. Shared ownership ties you down in numerous ways to one boat, one area and one period plus an ongoing monetary liability over many years. It just cannot compare in such respects with hire.

 

Thanks but no thanks. Whatever rings your bell but I can't see the attractions at all.

 

regards

Steve

[Nic]

Hello fellow shared owner boaters,

 

Its amazing the amount of snobbery that exists in this forum. Sort of "if you cannot afford to buy a boat outright you shouldn't be allowed in the elite club by a back door". When I first joined, it seemed there were many interesting posts about canals etc, so I wanted to stick around. However it seemed to be mainly people with their own boat here and with threads denigrating anyone but private owners, I thought I'd keep quiet. I'm glad there are other boat-share owners here, maybe there needs to be a shared owners sub forum to make anyone who comes across the site realise they are welcome too.

 

Having been a shared owner for eight years now taking a minimum of 3 weeks each year, it has enabled me to be out more than any other route within my means. If I owned a boat, would I be out in it more? I'm not sure. The idea of having a boat locally that you just spend weekends on, not going anywhere or up and down the same stretch of canal each time does not appeal to me. I like to "go somewhere" but only have a limited number of weeks I can spend afloat (after all I have work and then holidays elsewhere too).

 

Shared ownership does give you guaranteed amount afloat for a reasonable cost. If you can't afford the time to be afloat more, then owning a boat simply gives you a false mindset of being better off at substantial more cost. Most shared owners I know take pride in their own boats - you always want to leave the boat in a brilliantly clean condition for the next person, who you know. Yes when you first join a scheme then it will be with strangers, but over the years you do get to know them some more.

 

The idea of committing oneself to a substantial initial payment and regular contributions thereafter fills me with dread compared with the absolute freedom of hire. ... Hire gives you complete freedom to go where you want, when you want and no obligations other than the actual cost of each trip. Shared ownership ties you down in numerous ways to one boat, one area and one period plus an ongoing monetary liability over many years. It just cannot compare in such respects with hire.

 

The same could be said for private ownership! Why bother buying a boat? Hiring gives you the ultimate flexibility to go where you want when you want. Private ownership ties you down to one boat in one area with an even greater monetary liability over many years. It just cannot compare in such respects with hire. Unless you want to leave your boat out in the sticks an inch your way around the system most people pay for a mooring base for a year.

 

Having a mooring base isn't any different to shared ownership. We've had 3 moorings over the last eight years and considering moving to another next year. You really need a couple of years, at least, at each point to be able to go over a variety of routes. We choose what base we want wherever on the system, its our boat after all. Shared ownership shouldn't be seen as renting weeks off a management company for a fixed cost (which is what time share is), more a shared burden with a greater number of heads put to work on ensuring the boat is how we want it.

 

Timeshare too, really has its plus points. If would like to hire one week a year, but find the cost a lot, then it gives you a fixed week a year for a relatively low cost. It does depend on finding a decent timeshare option, which if you dig can be found from peoples experiences. Not as convenient or as flexible as hiring, but if its the choice of hiring 1 week every 2 or 3 years in the low season and a timeshare week every year the latter may suit some people.

[anhar]

Its amazing the amount of snobbery that exists in this forum. Sort of "if you cannot afford to buy a boat outright you shouldn't be allowed in the elite club by a back door". When I first joined, it seemed there were many interesting posts about canals etc, so I wanted to stick around. However it seemed to be mainly people with their own boat here and with threads denigrating anyone but private owners, I thought I'd keep quiet. I'm glad there are other boat-share owners here, maybe there needs to be a shared owners sub forum to make anyone who comes across the site realise they are welcome too.

Who said or implied you aren't allowed here if you don't own a boat? Neither I nor I expect anybody else thinks that and the snobbery to which you refer doesn't exist here at all. I don't object to what you have to say but that has to go for you too about others' views. That's all that's happening, people exchanging views. If you are too sensitive for any disagreement then you need to look to yourself rather than posting fatuous accusations against other readers.

 

Generally on a forum like this, a person can't expect to publish a view on something and have everyone agree with them. I'm sure you can see that. Specifically in this case if you read what I said, I concluded that hire is a much preferable alternative to shared ownership for those that can't or don't want to own a boat. Hardly elitist to hire is it? But it's only my view, just as yours is yours. Whatever floats your boat, literally.

 

regards

Steve

Edited April 26, 2007 by anhar

[Nic]

If you are too sensitive for any disagreement then you need to look to yourself rather than posting fatuous accusations against other readers.

 

Generally on a forum like this, a person can't expect to publish a view on something and have everyone agree with them. I'm sure you can see that. Specifically in this case if you read what I said, I concluded that hire is a much preferable alternative to shared ownership for those that can't or don't want to own a boat. Hardly elitist to hire is it? But it's only my view, just as yours is yours. Whatever floats your boat, literally.

Wasn't meaning to come across like that, I guess its just the threads I read initially. Sure there is room on forums for disagreement - after all that's what discussion is for .

 

I disagree that hiring is best for anyone not wanting to own their own boat, unless you are in a position where money doesn't matter and most people aren't. If you like to take a week or two without commitment, then hiring is a great option, but for anyone who wants to spend a few weeks afloat every year shared ownership is a good financial alternative to the high cost of owning your own boat. I'd say anyone who hires every year and wants more should look at a variety of shared schemes out there. To me the advantages of shared ownership outweigh financial disadvantages of owning a whole boat. But as you say each to their own opinion.

[StoneHenge]

A couple at my place had a time share in a boat and it worked really well for them. All the time share owners had a rota for maintenance and cruises and at the end of each cruise they recorded engine hours, checked oil, did all the usuall stuff, plus anything that may have been coming up for renwal such as blacking, which everyone then had contributed to, but one person organised, and that was whoever happened to be using the boat at the time.

 

It worked really well for them as they felt like they sort of owned a boat, knew who else had been in it and that it was looked after properly (not saying this is not true of hire companies of course, some are better than others, as with everything in life), but it did save them money in the long run.

[Moley]

You can usually bank up to 2 years in advance which allows you to have 4 weeks available at once (one from last year, one from this year, & one each from the next 2 years). Points work similarly, but you are not limited to a number of weeks - as long as you have sufficient points, you can exchange - unused points expire after I think 3 years with our club (Interchange), and we still have access to RCI resorts as well.

 

We came to the waterways through a timeshare exchange. Although we initially bought a specific week which we could exchange through RCI, our ‘home’ resort went titsup and we had a good while when we didn't know if we'd come out with anything at all. Fortunately, the place was bought out by GVC (now Sunterra) who operate a points-based system, so now we get 60 points a year and pay around £400 in annual maintenance fees. We can exchange anywhere within our own group without charge or through Interval International where a fee is payable. As quoted above, we can bank or draw one year forward.

 

This system is quite flexible, suits us, and guarantees a high standard of accommodation. Every week at every resort within our group has a points value. For example, we just took one week out of season (February half-term) in a 2-bedroom (sleeps 6) apartment in Spain, which would have cost 35 points but was half ‘price’ as we booked last minute, so 17.5 points.

 

Availability in school holidays can be limited, but we got lucky in '05. Sunterra now own a few narrowboats, operated by Alvechurch, and Mrs. Mole went online to see if there was anything of interest and found two weeks on a 66ft boat in August.

 

This cost us all our points for '04 (un-used but banked), '05 and '06, so represented a cost of £1,200 for the fortnight. However, this is paid monthly by DD so we never had to find a chunk of cash. That fortnight on a similar Alvechurch boat would have cost us £2,700, which we simply could not have afforded.

 

As you all know, we got the bug and had to buy an old'un, and you're stuck with me.

 

Sharing wouldn't work for us as we are restricted to school holidays and, as I understand it, say we were in a syndicate of six, this year might get first choice for the weeks we wanted to use that boat, but next year we'd be bottom of the list and have to wait and see if there was anything we could use when the other five had chosen. I know there are share schemes which get around this over-simplification, but I only looked into it briefly. To me it would seem a very sensible option if you were flexible in when you could use your share.

 

At the end of the day, whether you hire, timeshare, share or can afford to own at whatever level, I really don't see any ‘pecking order’

[kawaton]

I concluded that hire is a much preferable alternative to shared ownership for those that can't or don't want to own a boat.

 

Im glad you came to that conclusion for ME........But you are wrong. Its not preferable, for ME.

 

Nic....i understand what you were saying.

There is Snobbery here.....not a lot....but there is some.

 

I have thought about what is best for me, for a number or years....and i have used some opinions on here to aid in my decision.

I could afford a nice boat if i wanted to..tbh....but financially, realistically, shared Ownership is preferable, for my own reasons...despite other peoples conclusions.

Edited April 26, 2007 by kawaton

[RobinR]

Availability in school holidays can be limited, but we got lucky in '05. Sunterra now own a few narrowboats, operated by Alvechurch, and Mrs. Mole went online to see if there was anything of interest and found two weeks on a 66ft boat in August.

 

In fact the Ownerships scheme allows for "Special Shares" on some boats which ensures 3 weeks in school holidays and there are other schemes where fixed single weeks are purchased. Ownerships shares on older boats are as little as £1300 and monthly costs £110 for a special share.

[Moley]

Okay, we've been out again over the weekend and have met all sorts, owners of shiny new boats and tatty older boats, novice and regular hirers, and I have no problem with any of them (and we're still relative newcomers ourselves). But, over the last couple of years I've met some folks with rather strange attitudes and I'm wondering if there's a common denominator or if I'm building an unjust mental image of a whole sector of waterways users based on a handful of individuals.

 

Without wishing to offend Nic, Petro, Howard, Kawaton or other proponents of sharing, are Challengers a separate breed, or is my perception flawed?

[mayalld]

Okay, we've been out again over the weekend and have met all sorts, owners of shiny new boats and tatty older boats, novice and regular hirers, and I have no problem with any of them (and we're still relative newcomers ourselves). But, over the last couple of years I've met some folks with rather strange attitudes and I'm wondering if there's a common denominator or if I'm building an unjust mental image of a whole sector of waterways users based on a handful of individuals.

 

Without wishing to offend Nic, Petro, Howard, Kawaton or other proponents of sharing, are Challengers a separate breed, or is my perception flawed?

 

Some of them seem to think so!