12v three pin plugs

[Trix]

In my boat I have , next to the 240 sockets , three pin 12v sockets . Does anyone know where to get the plugs ? if i can get a 12 volt lenovo s230 charger then i want to put one of the plugs on it so i can plug it in anywhere on the boat . Have googled it but no results any ideas ????

[mrsmelly]

In my boat I have , next to the 240 sockets , three pin 12v sockets . Does anyone know where to get the plugs ? if i can get a 12 volt lenovo s230 charger then i want to put one of the plugs on it so i can plug it in anywhere on the boat . Have googled it but no results any ideas ????

 

Think they sell em in Band q

 

Tim

[Grace and Favour]

In my boat I have , next to the 240 sockets , three pin 12v sockets . Does anyone know where to get the plugs ? if i can get a 12 volt lenovo s230 charger then i want to put one of the plugs on it so i can plug it in anywhere on the boat . Have googled it but no results any ideas ????

 

Trix, - - could you post a photo of the sockets please?

[IdealStandard]

They're pretty readily available.

 

How big are the holes?

 

It's probably a 5 amp plug

 

http://www.johnlewis.com/231577942/Product.aspx?s_pccid=pc_gs__&

[Trix]

They're pretty readily available.

 

How big are the holes?

 

It's probably a 5 amp plug

 

http://www.johnlewis.com/231577942/Product.aspx?s_pccid=pc_gs__&

thats the one great stuff many thanks

[alan_fincher]

They're pretty readily available.

 

How big are the holes?

 

It's probably a 5 amp plug

 

http://www.johnlewis.com/231577942/Product.aspx?s_pccid=pc_gs__&

About a third of that price at Toolstation, though!

 

Linky

[RichLech]

About a third of that price at Toolstation, though!

 

Linky

 

On Ebay too.

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clipsal-2a-amp-250v-3-round-pin-beige-plug-caravan-motorhome-boat-/251111963232?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item3a77707a60

[Trix]

About a third of that price at Toolstation, though!

 

Linky

Even better now all I have to do is find the charger and wire it up

[alan_fincher]

On Ebay too.

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clipsal-2a-amp-250v-3-round-pin-beige-plug-caravan-motorhome-boat-/251111963232?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item3a77707a60

Yep.

 

That's a 2 amp one - I generally find 5 amp is more usually used on boats, but Trix needs to check which size it is.

 

One word of warning, Trix......

 

Often the 12 volt supplies for PCs and the like come with a car cigarette style lighter plug, and very often that plug actually has a fuse in it. Sometimes visible, sometimes only found if you unassemble it. That may be (say) a 5 to 8 amp fuse. If you just cut the cigarette style plug off, and replace with an alternate "twelve volt" plug, you are removing that fusing, and it is possible that the sockets on the boat may lead back to a much higher value fuse. That could result in a fault condition in the device (that was not a complete short circuit) not blowing that much larger fuse, but maybe passing enough current that either the decice or the cabling could in the worst case seriously overhead/melt/catch fire. (Not hugely likely, but certainly a theoretical risk, particularly given how crummy the internal circuitry can be in some such devices).

 

You really do not want to be taking a "correct" value fuse out of the equation if there is one, so you might be better having a short lead that plugs into your boat 12 volt sockets, but leads instead to a cigarette style outlet. Then, if you can plug the unit's existing cigarette style plug (with fuse) into that, and it is still fully protected at the right current.

[Nickhlx]

Yep.

 

That's a 2 amp one - I generally find 5 amp is more usually used on boats, but Trix needs to check which size it is.

 

One word of warning, Trix......

 

Often the 12 volt supplies for PCs and the like come with a car cigarette style lighter plug, and very often that plug actually has a fuse in it. Sometimes visible, sometimes only found if you unassemble it. That may be (say) a 5 to 8 amp fuse. If you just cut the cigarette style plug off, and replace with an alternate "twelve volt" plug, you are removing that fusing, and it is possible that the sockets on the boat may lead back to a much higher value fuse. That could result in a fault condition in the device (that was not a complete short circuit) not blowing that much larger fuse, but maybe passing enough current that either the decice or the cabling could in the worst case seriously overhead/melt/catch fire. (Not hugely likely, but certainly a theoretical risk, particularly given how crummy the internal circuitry can be in some such devices).

 

You really do not want to be taking a "correct" value fuse out of the equation if there is one, so you might be better having a short lead that plugs into your boat 12 volt sockets, but leads instead to a cigarette style outlet. Then, if you can plug the unit's existing cigarette style plug (with fuse) into that, and it is still fully protected at the right current.

 

 

 

 

Like these on E-Bay ?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/W4-Adapt-2-12v-caravan-boat-clipsal-3-pin-plug-car-cigarette-lighter-adapter-/321046786189?_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D74%26meid%3D4786576612399225579%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1048%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D251111963232%26

 

Nick

[bizzard]

And before you put the plugs on your appliances make sure that the wires are on the correct pins in the plug. To make sure either use a volt or multi-meter at the wall socket holes or remove the sockets and check its wiring. The (+pos)red or brown is usually the right hand lower hole looking at the socket face on and the (-neg)black or blue the left hand lower hole, the third larger top hole is the earth hole and is not always used. Wire the plug to correspond and match with the wall socket holes wiring, if they're wired wrong you may destroy certain 12v appliances.

[GUMPY]

These are not 12v plugs and sockets!

They are intended for use at 230v and are marked as such

In an ideal world they shhould be replaced with something correctly rated for 12v

[Alanji]

These are not 12v plugs and sockets!

They are intended for use at 230v and are marked as such

In an ideal world they shhould be replaced with something correctly rated for 12v

What would be the danger of using them on 12v circuit?

[jonathanA]

What would be the danger of using them on 12v circuit?

 

you plug in a 240v lamp or something and nothing happens....

 

 

I suppose thats its just not good practice because the opposite situation could occur (probably on dry land) with potentially serious results. Also maybe the socket has a switch designed to interupt AC current rather than DC and it may fail to work or burn out if switching DC current above its rated value for DC (if it has one).

 

doesn't stop people using the old fashioned round pin 5A sockets for 12V on boats, possibly because the 12v 'chandlery' versions are deemed expensive or poor quality ?

Edited January 11, 2013 by jonathanA

[alan_fincher]

What would be the danger of using them on 12v circuit?

The usually stated safety fear is that someone ends up plugging a 12 volt appliance into one of the sockets that is still being used for its prescribed purpose, and is connected to 230V AC mains. (The sockets are sometimes used in pubs and other eateries for table and "mood" lighting, apparently, for example).

 

It is a theoretical risk, but I know my 12 volt equipment is 12 volt, and I'm not about to plug (say) my 12 volt laptop adaptor in at a pub by disconnecting their table lights.

 

Some people anyway get around this problem by not using the "obvious" choice of the "live" pin for positive and the "neutral" for negative, when (strictly wrongly) using these things for 12 volts, and instead use the earth pin for the positive. Then if it a 12 volt appliance were plugged into a 240 volt source, it would only be connected between neutral and earth, and normally there are at the same potential.

 

Another concern is that even the larger size is only designed for 5 amps AC, and generally it is reckoned that you should de-rate anything for DC, so certainly the largest 12V DC current they are ever used for should theoretically be about 5 amps, and arguably less. However people have no qualms about putting far higher currents through the 12 volt "cigar" sockets, which I would argue are a lot less well engineered than these 3 pin 5 amp plugs, and I have never seen one of the 3 [in overheat or otherwise misbehave for the type of use I put them to, (where I can cetainly approach and maybe exceed 5 amp loadings). The same can't be said of the cigar type plugs where I have seen several melting incidents, one involving actual flames.

 

The use of the 3 pin plugs is remarkably commonplace for 12 volts, and despite meaning to be for 230 volts AC normally, I think things like the "Clipsal" ones are specifically marketed for caravan and boat use on 12 volts. To me their biggest limitation is that you can't have a fuse in the plug, as you can with other types, so can be relying on the boats fuses or circuit breakers for protection, which could be a problem in certain situations.

 

Also maybe the socket has a switch designed to interupt AC current rather than DC and it may fail to work or burn out if switching DC current above its rated value for DC (if it has one).

I have always found it quite hard to buy a 5 amp round pin socket that is switched, although they do exists. They are certainly a rare beast IMO.

[Bobbybass]

Question though...

 

if they are 230 volt 2 amp plugs..doesn't that mean they can supply much higher current at 12 volts ?

 

For example...230 volts @ 2 amps is 460 watts...

So at 12 volts...could they supply 38 amps...which is 460 divided by 12 volts ?

 

Ponder ponder...?

 

Bob

[alan_fincher]

Question though...

 

if they are 230 volt 2 amp plugs..doesn't that mean they can supply much higher current at 12 volts ?

 

For example...230 volts @ 2 amps is 460 watts...

So at 12 volts...could they supply 38 amps...which is 460 divided by 12 volts ?

 

Ponder ponder...?

 

Bob

No, definitely not.

 

The voltage doesn't enter in to it, if they are only supposed to carry 5A at 230 volts, there is no reason to suppose they can carry more at 12 volts.

 

Current is the determining factor, in this case.

 

Switches (in pariclar) though regularly are rated less for a DC current than an AC current, so 240 volt AC switches pressed into boat use should probably only be used at lower currents than they were designed for on AC.

[Nickhlx]

Quite -

 

Voltage relates to the insulation/resistance

 

whilst

 

Current relates to the cross-sectional area, electrical resistance of the conductors and contact resistance in the plugs/sockets...

 

Even in the 2 amp plugs, those little pins would probably carry 10 amps without getting warm, but the contact resistance in the socket would let that down, hence 2 amps is the rating....

 

( assumes appropriate wiring everywhere !)

 

Personally I prefer the Powerlet plugs and sockets as they are rated at 10 or 16 amps, and fine connectors they are too ! e.g. http://www.powerlet.com/shop-by-product/power-distribution/PWRDIST

 

No chance of making mistakes and a quality system...

 

Nick

 

 

[David Schweizer]

 

snip> Another concern is that even the larger size is only designed for 5 amps AC, and generally it is reckoned that you should de-rate anything for DC, so certainly the largest 12V DC current they are ever used for should theoretically be about 5 amps, and arguably less. However people have no qualms about putting far higher currents through the 12 volt "cigar" sockets, which I would argue are a lot less well engineered than these 3 pin 5 amp plugs, and I have never seen one of the 3 [in overheat or otherwise misbehave for the type of use I put them to, (where I can cetainly approach and maybe exceed 5 amp loadings). The same can't be said of the cigar type plugs where I have seen several melting incidents, one involving actual flames.<snip

When I were a lad we always called the big one a 15amp plug, we had one over the cooker and plugged the kettle and iron into it. There are actually three round pin sizes 2amp, 5amp and 15 amp.

 

see:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-AMP-ROUND-PIN-PLUG-/271003058188?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item3f190a800c

 

 

snip>I have always found it quite hard to buy a 5 amp round pin socket that is switched, although they do exists. They are certainly a rare beast IMO.

 

How many do you want?

Edited January 11, 2013 by David Schweizer

[Alanji]

What would be the danger of using them on 12v circuit?

Useful replies.

 

The reason I asked was because I have some 12v round sockets on my boat. The chances of plugging say, a 12v table lamp into a 240v socket are pretty remote, though not impossible - boater chucks out said table lamp - local pub landlord picks it up saying, that will do nicely, until

 

Seems from what has been said the 3 pin sockets are safer than the car lighter socket (I have one of those as well) and they have a changeable fuse.

[alan_fincher]

When I were a lad we always called the big one a 15amp plug, we had one over the cooker and plugged the kettle and iron into it. There are actually three round pin sizes 2amp, 5amp and 15 amp.

 

see:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-AMP-ROUND-PIN-PLUG-/271003058188?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item3f190a800c

 

Yes, those are apparently still used in stage lighting rigs, and my son who used to do that was familiar with them.

 

I've not seen them pressed into use for boat 12 volts though, although it would make a certain sense due to their higher current carrying cpacity.

 

How many do you want?

None at the moment, thank you, David.

 

TBH I prefer not to have the switch, as it is probably the bit most likely to fail if actually used to repeatedly break a flowing DC current. If present, I would say that is the bit that limits what you should run through these when used for 12 volts DC, as the sockets and the pins seem far more "robust" than typical switch parts.

[Chris Pink]

Having used 2A round pin stuff for years on aesthetic grounds - they're good to about 8A at 12V - I am moving to car accessory sockets because I end up with adaptors all over the place.

 

They have improved much over the years and you can even get locking ones now. They also used to be well overpriced but eBay has done for that too

 

There: for those to whom these things matter Pink admits he's wrong.

 

Mind , all that safety whinging is so much hot air. Any risk assessment includes likelihood. Which would require some kind of history of related incidents

[Guest]

These are not 12v plugs and sockets!

They are intended for use at 230v and are marked as such

In an ideal world they shhould be replaced with something correctly rated for 12v

The only problem I can see for using them on 12V systems, is thaat somebody might take (say) a 12v appliance off a boat, and plug it in the 240Vac supply for the window light in the pub. Slim chance, and Slim is out of town.

 

One possible way of preventing this from happening is to use what is intended as the earth pin as the positive when using these devices for 12V.

 

I am a big believer in using generic stuff on my boat, and have used 240 MCB's on the 12V system, AFTER checking with the manufacturer that they are up for the job (Hager amongst others.) I can get these from City Elec and similar in the event of a failure, as well as the usual Ebay etc.

 

I have said it many times, but once picked up a panel in a chandlers that had little glass fuses, with cute little screw on covers, and toggle switches alongside, complete with labels, all looking very professional. Unfortunately the switches were marked "240V AC only." Things aint always what they seem.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Guest

[janetah]

I found this http://www.snellyvision.co.uk/store/power/12v-dc-accessories/adapt-it-2-12v-dc-three-pin-to-cigar-socket.html?gclid=CJ3X5tap67kCFVDItAodbUcAfg

 

Has anyone used one - or got any thoughts / safety issues? I've just bought a 12v/240v TV and it's got a cigarette socket which I can't plug into the 3 pin 12v socket nearby.

 

Jan

Edited September 27, 2013 by janetah

[Guest]

I found this http://www.snellyvision.co.uk/store/power/12v-dc-accessories/adapt-it-2-12v-dc-three-pin-to-cigar-socket.html?gclid=CJ3X5tap67kCFVDItAodbUcAfg

 

Has anyone used one - or got any thoughts / safety issues? I've just bought a 12v/240v TV and it's got a cigarette socket which I can't plug into the 3 pin 12v socket nearby.

 

Jan

Can't comment on that particular one, but made one similar some years ago, and use it often. No problems to report.